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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I built an AR with a 16" BCM barrel with a mid length gas system, BCM bolt, BCM upper, Daniel Defense carbine spring, Magpul UBR stock (has a proprietary buffer tube), and a standard carbine buffer. Shouldn't matter to this conversation but it also has a long Daniel Defense hand guard and DoubleStar lower. I was told by BCM that a standard buffer would be ok for cheap ammo, plus I thought mid length gas systems shot alot easier.

So anyway, it kicks quite a bit even with what I'd call cheap ammo, $6 for 20 new Winchester .223's and 5.56 bulk American Eagle reloads. Has alot of muzzle rise. Follow-up shots are crazy slow. It's worse than cheap carbines I've shot. This is not what I expected, I bought the mid length gas system and longer barrel to shoot smoother.

So, buy a heavier buffer? Or what?
 

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I built an AR with a 16" BCM barrel with a mid length gas system, BCM bolt, BCM upper, Daniel Defense carbine spring, Magpul UBR stock (has a proprietary buffer tube), and a standard carbine buffer. Shouldn't matter to this conversation but it also has a long Daniel Defense hand guard and DoubleStar lower. I was told by BCM that a standard buffer would be ok for cheap ammo, plus I thought mid length gas systems shot alot easier.

So anyway, it kicks quite a bit even with what I'd call cheap ammo, $6 for 20 new Winchester .223's and 5.56 bulk American Eagle reloads. Has alot of muzzle rise. Follow-up shots are crazy slow. It's worse than cheap carbines I've shot. This is not what I expected, I bought the mid length gas system and longer barrel to shoot smoother.

So, buy a heavier buffer? Or what?
I had the same problem. I put in a heavier buffer and spring that I picked up from Brownells. Problem solved. Been a couple of years now and no problems.
 

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i have never thought that 5.56 had kick to it even in a bolt with heavier loads... but replacing the buffer tube with something heavier might work as long as it works in your "proprietary" magpul buffer tube. do you happen to have an adjustable gas system by any chance??? if so open it up a bit and that will help. the brake/compensator is also an ok idea, i like the ak74 half moon brakes, but dont know if they make anything like that with standard 5.56 threads.
 

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I guess you better start eating your spinach and Wheaties. I have never hear anyone say an AR had too much recoil or muzzle rise.
Yep. That's a first.


Maybe we should give Corndiggity the benefit of the doubt here and assume he meant it as he didn't expect the recoil to be as much *as expected* out of that particular setup.........

.....not that he has problems handling the recoil of 5.56 in general......:D:



....but maybe Corndog is built like a girl scout.....who knows....:D:



...actually, I think the girl scouts have more nutz.......:taped:


 

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i have never thought that 5.56 had kick to it even in a bolt with heavier loads... but replacing the buffer tube with something heavier might work as long as it works in your "proprietary" magpul buffer tube. do you happen to have an adjustable gas system by any chance??? if so open it up a bit and that will help. the brake/compensator is also an ok idea, i like the ak74 half moon brakes, but dont know if they make anything like that with standard 5.56 threads.
Recoil in semi automatics isn't entirely caused by the cartridge. For example, I have an older Mini-14 that will literally bruise your shoulder after a day of firing it. And it's certainly not caused by the diminuative .223 round. It's from the heavy bolt carrier slamming sharply into the receiver during cycling. This is why they were known as scope killers. A gas port bushing would reduce that. And I can turn the gas valve all the way only on my FAL and it'll beat your shoulder too. Or turn it down and it turns into a soft, gentle shooter.

His gun is cycling too fast. A heavier spring and buffer would be a good place to start. I doubt a muzzle brake will do much, because that's not really the cause of the recoil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Maybe we should give Corndiggity the benefit of the doubt here and assume he meant it as he didn't expect the recoil to be as much *as expected* out of that particular setup.........

.....not that he has problems handling the recoil of 5.56 in general......:D:
My other gun is a lightweight 30/06 bolt action. I can handle it just fine. If I wanted a gun that has slow follow-up shots, I'd use it. It's not a pain thing. It's a fast follow-up shot thing.

My first AR was an Olympic Plinker piece o' crap that I traded for a 10 year old broken lawnmower, and it was much more controllable. I spent $2,000 on this new BCM setup and even though the accuracy of the first shot is better, my follow-up shots are much slower, it handles worse after the trigger is pulled, and the muzzle rise is more.

That is simply not the end result that I expected. Considering what I paid for it, I wish to make it handle better, not that I wish my shoulder to not hurt as bad due to the kick. :rolleyes: It should handle at least just as good as that Olympic I had, preferably better, not noticably worse.
 

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Now that we have all had a chuckle at the OP's expense, we should probably address his question. It has nothing to do with the overall recoil, but with his expectation of a substantially reduced recoil to allow handier follow-up shots.

This is supposed to be the AR's forte, what with the straight-line stock. It was developed specifically to eliminate muzzle rise in a 7.62 x 51, and provide controllable operation of this heavier round in full auto. If there is a performance issue that affects the function of the lighter 5.56 in semi-auto, then it is a real concern, regardless of whether the OP can physically tolerate the recoil. Even if he "mans up" he will still have a rifle that forces problems with follow-up shots. No amount of grunting and testosterone is going to change that.

I only own one AR and I replaced the buffer spring before I even bothered to fire it. As long as it is cycling appropriately, there is no such thing as a buffer spring that is too strong.

The benefit of the flash hider is not as great as the benefit of a muzzle brake. I have yet to replace mine with a muzzle brake, but that would make it much more manageable.

Also how do you like the pistol grip on yours? I like the original style just fine, but a friend of mine changed his for a SAW style grip and says it was a real game-changer.

Beyond that, perhaps a gas system adjustment, but I have no experience with that. I'm not a big AR fanboy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Recoil in semi automatics isn't entirely caused by the cartridge. For example, I have an older Mini-14 that will literally bruise your shoulder after a day of firing it.
This isn't enough to bruise, the problem is that it's enough to affect the controllability with multiple shots.
 

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Recoil in semi automatics isn't entirely caused by the cartridge. For example, I have an older Mini-14 that will literally bruise your shoulder after a day of firing it. And it's certainly not caused by the diminuative .223 round. It's from the heavy bolt carrier slamming sharply into the receiver during cycling. This is why they were known as scope killers. A gas port bushing would reduce that. And I can turn the gas valve all the way only on my FAL and it'll beat your shoulder too. Or turn it down and it turns into a soft, gentle shooter.

His gun is cycling too fast. A heavier spring and buffer would be a good place to start. I doubt a muzzle brake will do much, because that's not really the cause of the recoil.
thats why i put a wolff power spring in my mini :thumb:... yes impulse from the moving parts can change the dynamic and there are several things you can do to mitigate (overall weight of the gun being one of them, spring constant being another)... regardless, the potential energy in the cartridge does not change for a given load... x grains of powder will always have y ft-lbs of potential engergy in it, even if you were to take 100% of the recoil straight back (i.e. a bolt action) anything you do to redirect energy into moving parts in which you have to overcome their momentum will reduce that overall recoil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Also how do you like the pistol grip on yours? I like the original style just fine, but a friend of mine changed his for a SAW style grip and says it was a real game-changer.
I don't like the finger groove in the normal ones but I don't think that this is what is affecting the problems mentioned.
 

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If I wanted a gun that has slow follow-up shots, I'd use it. It's not a pain thing. It's a fast follow-up shot thing.
LOL....


...I knew what you meant, bro.

That above statement is why I love the AR in 5.56 and why I run it exclusively. Goodluck tweaking that sweet machine to perfection. No better feeling than a solid, smooth-running AR. For $2000, I'd bitch about every little detail as well.......I hear ya.


Ar builds are a tricky thing. I'm working on my first "build" as well (I have just bought complete rifles in the past). Great money-saver but you got to know what you're doing or KABLOOEY!!

Back to studying AR builds......

As other have said, it seems a heavier buffer/spring may be needed.....
 

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Wolff Gunsprings XP buffer spring and Palmetto State Armory or equivalent H buffer. This slowed things down nicely in my 18: barreled midlength. May also be your shooting stance. Elbows down, head up, rifle tucked in to the pocket, slight lean from the waist.
 
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