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on a journey
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So a good portion of you all are aware of Liam Neeson's anti-gun statements. They got me thinking today about gun control, firearms, and what all is really needed concerning such things. I am sure similar sentiments have been voiced; these are just my thoughts on the matter, so take them as they are.:thumb:

Taking away guns from law abiding citizens will not solve things, as the guns themselves are not the problem. They are tools, thusly, they are amoral; neither good nor bad. It is not the tool, but the intent with which it is used, and the purpose it is used for that determine the nature of the OUTCOME.

The real problem is the underlying moral decline of the individual, and of the society as a whole that, until remedied, will continue to cause problems. Therefore, taking away firearms, and restricting citizens' rights concerning them, will not solve the problem, as the moral decay still remains. Besides making more laws to restrict firearms in order to fight crime is, in fact, counter productive, as the criminals will still illegally get the guns, while the law abiding citizens will be left defenseless; this is what makes them criminals... the breaking and willful illegal circumventing of laws. Therefore the greater need is not the disarming of the public, but the stalling and undoing of the moral decay.

Being Christian, the only way I believe that can be done is by bringing God back into the equation, as you can systematically track the decline of the U.S.A. with the removal of God from the picture.

Any pertinent thoughts and input are welcome. Please, no bashing, insults, etc.
 

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People Are Not Good
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So a good portion of you all are aware of Liam Neeson's anti-gun statements. They got me thinking today about gun control, firearms, and what all is really needed concerning such things. I am sure similar sentiments have been voiced; these are just my thoughts on the matter, so take them as they are.:thumb:

Taking away guns from law abiding citizens will not solve things, as the guns themselves are not the problem. They are tools, thusly, they are amoral; neither good nor bad. It is not the tool, but the intent with which it is used, and the purpose it is used for that determine the nature of the OUTCOME.

The real problem is the underlying moral decline of the individual, and of the society as a whole that, until remedied, will continue to cause problems. Therefore, taking away firearms, and restricting citizens' rights concerning them, will not solve the problem, as the moral decay still remains. Besides making more laws to restrict firearms in order to fight crime is, in fact, counter productive, as the criminals will still illegally get the guns, while the law abiding citizens will be left defenseless; this is what makes them criminals... the breaking and willful illegal circumventing of laws. Therefore the greater need is not the disarming of the public, but the stalling and undoing of the moral decay.

Being Christian, the only way I believe that can be done is by bringing God back into the equation, as you can systematically track the decline of the U.S.A. with the removal of God from the picture.

Any pertinent thoughts and input are welcome. Please, no bashing, insults, etc.
In before the "I don't need no sky daddy" comments.

And no, disarming the public solves nothing. Other than creating a weak citizenry.
 

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Weed 'em and reap
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From a purely secular stance, it would be difficult to find a source of consistent moral guidance short of the Judeo-Christian ethic that informed our founding and the interpretation of our laws until only a few decades ago.

I was at a museum recently, and there was a proclamation from our a governor from 1946. I had to check to make sure I was still in CT. The first third of the proclamation was an invocation and the last third was an invocation. This from a governor in what is now one of the bluest states.

To those with eyes to see, the root cause of our decline is on full display. :(
 

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Which Christian are you? The ones who don't like dancing, music, blood transfusions, alcohol, etc. Do you handle snakes? Pay homage to the guy in Italy? There are hundreds of different brands. Around here you can be Catholic, Catholic, Catholic or begrudgingly they'll let you be other. As long as you serve fish on Friday.

I grew up Lutheran so we drink beer on Sunday's, eat steak during Lent, and the pope is the devil in a dress. :D:
 

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Bear Fighter
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So a good portion of you all are aware of Liam Neeson's anti-gun statements.
Just because someone is famous doesn't make their opinion any more important than anyone else's. Also, it's their opinion, not necessarily based on facts, probably based on feelings.

I guess, too, I'm lucky because I have no idea what Liam Neeson said. I've been too busy shooting and reloading to watch anything from any celebrities other than the things they are paid to do, and that's entertain me. Watching a celebrity who has never done anything other than be famous spout off their opinions is anything but entertaining.

oh yeah, if Jesus makes you feel better about whatever your views are, more power to you.
 

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From a purely secular stance, it would be difficult to find a source of consistent moral guidance short of the Judeo-Christian...
I semi agree.

But christians are going to hate what I say next - there is no coherent christian philosophy and the 'christian philosophy' espoused today is absolutely not based on any scripture.

Certainly, individuality, hard work and doing unto your fellow man are cornerstones of modern christ worship memes. The protestant work ethic is very well documented in behavioral sciences... etc etc etc

However, proclaiming that people should belive in rediculous mythical fables in order to fix societies ills is the wrong path.

It may even be true that fear of invisible stalking boogie men, watching your every move, may actually have kept the masses of our society in line for generations.

But these antiquated mystical belief systems have held our society back for centuries. I have no interest in going back to the ignorant scientific understanding of the world from generations ago, nor do I desire to have the magical religious beliefs, derived from those misunderstandings.

We have outgrown those silly children's stories. It will take time for the world to find a new teaching method to replace the old ways, but that too will happen, for better or for worse, but we will never be going back to a world dominated by the corporal and capitol enforcement of forced christian worship.

(Besides, it is only through rose coloured glasses that people believe christian philosophy has been good for our society. Keep in mind that the Inquisition was still murdering people well into the 20th century. Murdering it's last 'heritic' in the 1920s, and still abducting children from parents decades later... there is enormous bad with the christian 'good'.
 

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People Are Not Good
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I semi agree.

But christians are going to hate what I say next - there is no coherent christian philosophy and the 'christian philosophy' espoused today is absolutely not based on any scripture.

Certainly, individuality, hard work and doing unto your fellow man are cornerstones of modern christ worship memes. The protestant work ethic is very well documented in behavioral sciences... etc etc etc

However, proclaiming that people should belive in rediculous mythical fables in order to fix societies ills is the wrong path.

It may even be true that fear of invisible stalking boogie men, watching your every move, may actually have kept the masses of our society in line for generations.

But these antiquated mystical belief systems have held our society back for centuries. I have no interest in going back to the ignorant scientific understanding of the world from generations ago, nor do I desire to have the magical religious beliefs, derived from those misunderstandings.

We have outgrown those silly children's stories. It will take time for the world to find a new teaching method to replace the old ways, but that too will happen, for better or for worse, but we will never be going back to a world dominated by the corporal and capitol enforcement of forced christian worship.

(Besides, it is only through rose coloured glasses that people believe christian philosophy has been good for our society. Keep in mind that the Inquisition was still murdering people well into the 20th century. Murdering it's last 'heritic' in the 1920s, and still abducting children from parents decades later... there is enormous bad with the christian 'good'.
Why the "for better or worse" part? Judging from your post, you seem to think religion (in this case Christianity) is a hindrance at least and a destructive force at most. What greater evil do you think exists that humanity might run to?
 

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I semi agree.

But christians are going to hate what I say next - there is no coherent christian philosophy and the 'christian philosophy' espoused today is absolutely not based on any scripture.

Certainly, individuality, hard work and doing unto your fellow man are cornerstones of modern christ worship memes. The protestant work ethic is very well documented in behavioral sciences... etc etc etc

However, proclaiming that people should belive in rediculous mythical fables in order to fix societies ills is the wrong path.

It may even be true that fear of invisible stalking boogie men, watching your every move, may actually have kept the masses of our society in line for generations.

But these antiquated mystical belief systems have held our society back for centuries. I have no interest in going back to the ignorant scientific understanding of the world from generations ago, nor do I desire to have the magical religious beliefs, derived from those misunderstandings.

We have outgrown those silly children's stories. It will take time for the world to find a new teaching method to replace the old ways, but that too will happen, for better or for worse, but we will never be going back to a world dominated by the corporal and capitol enforcement of forced christian worship.

(Besides, it is only through rose coloured glasses that people believe christian philosophy has been good for our society. Keep in mind that the Inquisition was still murdering people well into the 20th century. Murdering it's last 'heritic' in the 1920s, and still abducting children from parents decades later... there is enormous bad with the christian 'good'.
Hmmm...when you draw your last breath, you better be right.... it is something we will all find out
 

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Survivor
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While I agree with the first part of the OP's post, I do not believe that forcing everyone to conform to Christianity is the answer. I will put my morals up against a Christian's any day, as a matter of fact, I have spent most of my life shaking my head at some of the "morals" of people whom claim to be Cristian.

In my opinion, we need to move beyond organized religion and focus on living together in peace.
 

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People Are Not Good
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While I agree with the first part of the OP's post, I do not believe that forcing everyone to conform to Christianity is the answer. I will put my morals up against a Christian's any day, as a matter of fact, I have spent most of my life shaking my head at some of the "morals" of people whom claim to be Cristian.

In my opinion, we need to move beyond organized religion and focus on living together in peace.
I agree forced Christianity is not right.

I will give you a little piece of advice on Christian morals;

"Follow the Shepherd, not the sheep." :thumb:
 

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Smile..wait for the flash
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While I agree with the first part of the OP's post, I do not believe that forcing everyone to conform to Christianity is the answer. I will put my morals up against a Christian's any day, as a matter of fact, I have spent most of my life shaking my head at some of the "morals" of people whom claim to be Cristian.

In my opinion, we need to move beyond organized religion and focus on living together in peace.
Very well said.
 

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on a journey
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I agree forced Christianity is not right.

I will give you a little piece of advice on Christian morals;

"Follow the Shepherd, not the sheep." :thumb:
^This. The fact that some people who say they believe don't back up their professions with actions is not indicative of the truth they say they believe being false. You can do something "in the name of..."/for someone without it being in their actual will... without them actually wanting you to do it.:thumb:
 

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Survivor
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Hmmm...when you draw your last breath, you better be right.... it is something we will all find out
The same goes for you, there is no guaranty and we all have to follow our own beliefs. As for Pascal's wager, it only covers two possibilities, out of millions. For all we know, the lizard God Gzar may be the supreme being and if you haven't worshiped him all your life, you are screwed.

That said, my personal belief is that we all return to the Ethereal Consciousness where we came from in the first place and it's not a big deal.
 
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