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Discussion Starter #1
Mods, please sticky this latter, thank you. Everyone read the whole initial post before posting, it will make it easier for everyone of us, please stay on topic.

Savage Sun 4x4 already posted a thread for me, but I need to post my own so it makes more sense. I will be using a scenario similar to his, since I think he understands some of the reasons my pack is not 30 pounds just by what he posted in his thread on this. This thread will be updated today or tomorrow by me.

The current situation is: The world is in major turmoil. All kinds of crazy crap has been going down in the last few months. There are presently major protests and riots going on in major cities. Riots in some big cities already as well. Every night for over several months it is all you see anymore on TV. The unemployment rate is at least 35 percent, and it looks like there is a Major depression coming any day now, the Government won't admit we are in real trouble, but we all know they are broke and very much in a debt they can't get out of. We see no fix in sight.

China has been on edge and pretty much threatened that if our situation here is not fixed very soon, they might invade us with NK. Our allies don't want to get involved as they are having their own problems at the moment, and they don't really want to tangle with China and it's allies. The people are on edge, it is obvious for the first time, war may be coming to us for a change.

North Korea has finished building it's nukes, and they have the means now to deliver their payload to the Continental United States. The United States wants to do a preemptive strike on NK, but has been told by China that if we do, there will be war. Meanwhile Kim Jong has been threatening SK, and has had outside help. He currently has been undergoing a massive troop buildup, and his allies have been supplying him with weapons and some troops. China has ramped up their war machine too, and has been doing their own massive troop build up.

The Federal Government has already declared martial law in some of the major cities, and has deployed both the Department of Homeland Security and it's assets, and the NG to deal with the riots and protests. FEMA is on sight as well. The Feds have been saying on the news that they are about to declare a state of emergency and nation wide martial law. Impose curfews, and deal with the problems. They say if everyone does not calm down, and the cities go back to normal within 2 weeks, they will deal with it by any means at their disposal. Private Military Companies, have been hired and are on the ground all around the country.

All over the net we have been seeing people taking about race wars, and the coming civil war. Militias have been activated and already are bugging out in groves. We have all been watching this unfold and some of us have already got itchy and bugged out to our Area of Operations. The people that read this thread are not among those people though. None of us here know what will happen next, but we are all starting to think it is time to make a move, and bug the hell out.

We have been seeing a lot of Government equipment moving by rail lately, and people are starting to get really scared and irrational. On the Highways there has been a lot of sighting of troops moving in convoy to unknown locations.

Your area you are bugging out too has lots of trees, wild game, farm land, rivers and lakes stocked with fish. You have been thinking about it daily for weeks now. What do do, go head and bug out, or wait a little longer? Just now you have lost your INTERNET connection. All the power in your neighborhood goes out, and your phone no longer works. THE **** HAS JUST HIT THE FAN! It seems that someone has just attacked us, as you just saw and heard some air bursts going off several miles away. You check with your neighbors and they have no power either. You just checked your car, and it doesn't work either. You waited to long, you will have to bug out on foot. You hear sirens everywhere and Cops and the local NG are starting to set up road blocks in your area. They are telling everyone to remain calm, and the power should be back on shortly, but you know it is a lie. Your heart starts to race, you need to get the hell out of this area and to your bug out location ASAP. You go in the house and start to get your gear together, and you throw in anything you didn't already have packed. We are all in for a very bumpy ride.

As soon as it gets dark that night, you slip out of town on foot. You may or may not have caches, but even if you do, you do not know if they are compromised, or even if you can make it to them. You assumed they are compromised, and acted accordingly. You assumed you might just have only what is in your pack, and on your person when you bugged out.

You just made it to your bug out location and it has been compromised. You see some military troops have set up camp there, and you don't dare go any closer. They don't look to be ours. The worst case scenario has happened, and you are on your own, alone and tired. You know some people near by that will help you out, so you head that way.

I always have believed you prepare for the worst as best you can, and pray for the best, but all that doesn't matter so much now, the worst has arrived. I just got to my destination, and so have you. We are all tired and a long way from home, we don't know if we can ever go back home again. You set up camp nearby on the river to your friends property. You are waiting in the woods near by for your friend. Finally you see him, and you tell him you are camped out near by, and to tell nobody he/she has saw you. You tell him/her you think we have been invaded and now at war. While talking you find out he/she just got back from town, and it is a known fact you cant go home, as it has been bombed and is now under martial law. A PMC and the cops have declared a curfew of 8 PM, and anyone caught out on the streets will be shot after that time, no exceptions. You are told the same thing about the nearest town. You are glad to see your friend, now tell us about what happens from here on.

Here are the conditions:

(1) You only have the gear you have on you at this point, nothing else being acquired is certain anymore.

(2) You have your friend, and there are Friendly Farmers in your area.

(3) You just got back to your camp, and I show up there with my own pack, I too just set up a camp near by, not too far from yours.

(4) We decide to coordinate with each other and we compare notes. I say to you, I will show you my gear, if you show me yours. If you dare, you post your gear here with pics and tell us about it. Please only come on this thread if you are willing to do that. In your initial post you must post your gear, and explain how you plan on using it. If you don't want to post some of it, that is OK, but just tell us about it some, what it is and how much it weighs. For instance, you have body armor, and it weighs X amount of pounds. Please keep it real. Please only say you have something if you do, pics are good.

Trolls please stay away, this is a learning exercise, if you don't want to post your gear, then stay away. I will be asking mods to delete any trolling responses, so this thread stays on track. Everyone posting their gear and explaining it, we are all helping each other out, and putting ourselves out there, please respect that. I hope we all can learn from each other, lets keep it real folks. So, let the games Begin, I will show you my gear, and you show me yours. Lay it all out on a tarp or something, take pictures, and explain what each piece of gear is, and what you plan on using it for. An example, if you show your tackle box, be specific, what is in it? How many hooks in that tray, etc. How much para cord, how long is it? How many rounds of ammunition do you have for that rifle?, etc. My pics will be up by tomorrow, and so will my explanation of all my gear. Please be very thorough people, and once your post is done, you can't add anything else, you brung what you brung, nothing more. Show pics both packed and unpacked, and explain where you keep everything in each place, and why. If you know the weight of each item list it please, but not required initially.

Post packing list, and what each thing has in it, such as in the top pocket of my pack, I have......

In this pocket on my EDC, I have....

Etc, etc. :thumb:

You can post some things now, and add latter, but tell us ahead of time. Such as, here is my EDC bag, and what is in it, my pack will be posted latter, along with weapons, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I like how my post has already been trolled, even before it got started. The first person who viewed it rated it one star. Come on guys, take something serious for once.
 

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I'm excited to see your pack, just to see what your BOB has that mine does not, that weighs so much.

My BOB and my wife's combined, weigh around 45 pounds, so I'm anxious to see what you have in yours that gets you up to 50+ pounds. Even if we added a ton of extra food, like you would for a very long survival scenario, neither of us would be close to 50 pounds.
 

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Numquam Succumbe
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Admittedly, this is the scenario I'm LEAST prepared for, lol. I don't see any Chinese Paratroopers coming down anytime soon, but this scenario sounds fun to play along, so I will! The first picture is what I would bring, the second picture is an earlier iteration of my EWLS system, but I have everything laid out in more detail in that picture, so you can get a better glimpse. I repeat, the second picture is for CLARIFICATION, and is NOT what I will be taking. I will be taking what is in the FIRST picture, the picture on the top.

Left to right, top to bottom, we have:

1. Sealine 20L Baja drybag containing a 50/50 alpaca/virgin wool mix blanket that I've cut a hole and installed a zipper in the middle and grommets on the side so it can be worn as a poncho, or secured to my poncho. See above pic. That is also where I keep my 65/35 poly/cotton MARPAT blouse (I don't wear it while I'm hiking) and my extra pair of exofficio boxer briefs.

2. USGI Poncho

3. USGI Goretex Bivvy

4. Ripstop Nylon Possibles pouch that contains 2 25ft sections of OD green (of COURSE :D:) 550 cord. 2 50ft sections of 320lb twisted and tarred nylon cordage. 1 50ft sections of jute cordage. 4 15ft sections of 180lb twisted and tarred nylon cordage. 2 25ft sections of Amsteel. And 6 or 8 sections of miscelaneous 1-2ft cordage I use to tie/secure my gear. It also contains two fruit nets that I use for foraging, a 3x4 foot section of mosquito netting (OD), a film canister of salt, two bic lighters, one firesteel, one 1-liter heavy duty plastic bag, and a USGI Wet Weather bag. Oh, and 1 bottle of Iodine.

5. Merino wool top and bottoms.

6. Kleen Kanteen 40oz, OD green bandana, and Snowpeak 900 nestled into each other and filled with water.

7. Katadyn Pocket Pro water filter

8. Kelty Redwing 50 in green

9. Camelbak Delta 5 with 100rds of XM in 5 20rd. Ruger Magazines. Roly-poly dump pouch, Mini survival kit, cleaning kit, and 2 liters of water.

10. USGI wool scarf, Wool beanie (not shown), and USGI wool gloves (not shown)

11. Two pairs wool socks

12. 2 1.5 laminated Bridger coilspring legholds.

13. Becker BK 2 Campanion

14. Bhaco Laplander folding saw

15. Two USGI PDK's, one filled with tinder (birch bark, cattail, and usnea), the other is my fishing kit.

16. 10L Sealine Storm drybag with 5lbs of food (1lb of which is peanut butter) and my Eton Scorpion.

17. Silva compass and map witih laminated Area of Operations map.

18. Waxed MARPAT boonie hat.

19. Ruger mini-14 580 series with 20rds. of Fedeal XM

20. Wally world foam pad.

As stated earlier, If it's winter time, I'll also be taking my (21.) Filson Mackinaw Cruiser, and my (22.) Swiss army wool gaiters. In that scenario, I'd throw another 5lbs of Federal XM 5.56 in my bag, which is ~200rds.

I'll be wearing 65/35 poly/cotton MARPAT trousers, Smartwool wool socks, full grain danners, Exofficio boxer briefs, and a 100 percent poly OD green t-shirt. In my pockets, I'd have my wallet, a flash drive with .PDF's of our important records, my wallet, My County Comm peanut lighter, a Minox MD 8x42 CWP waterproof compass monocular (don't have this yet), and my CRKT Drifer.

My pack weighs 31lbs at the hang, and would weigh 36lbs with the extra ammo.

The Camelbak Delta 5 rigged-up weighs 12lbs with 2 liters of water in it.

The Ruger Mini 14 580 series weighs 7.5lbs loaded.

I think that's it! Let the scenarios begin! :thumb:

***EDIT***
Oh! I forgot my sewing kit! I've got a little sewing kit in my possibles pouch, too!

****DOUBLE EDIT********
Oops! I was playing with my toys and realized that I have 180 rounds of ammunition on the Camelback Delta 5, not 100. So, 180rds on the Camelbak Delta 5 and in my Mini-14, and ~200rds of ammunition in my pack for a total of 380rds of 5.56 Federal XM. Not like it matters that much anways, as I'm only assuming defensive postures, but still. It's there. :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You mean like a Chinese invasion of the US mainland? :D::D::D::thumb:
Why do you think it couldn't happen? Anybody could invade us, eventually someone will, it is just a matter of time. Actually, if you reread it, it doesn't say WHO invaded, you are assuming it was China. All you know at this point in the scenario is what is posted originally, anything else is speculation. To be clear, Am I getting this right, you have 100 rounds of pistol ammo loaded in the magazines. You have your rifle with 1 magazine loaded, and 200 extra rounds, is that correct?
 

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Numquam Succumbe
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Why do you think it couldn't happen? Anybody could invade us, eventually someone will, it is just a matter of time. Actually, if you reread it, it doesn't say WHO invaded, you are assuming it was China. All you know at this point in the scenario is what is posted originally, anything else is speculation. To be clear, Am I getting this right, you have 100 rounds of pistol ammo loaded in the magazines. You have your rifle with 1 magazine loaded, and 200 extra rounds, is that correct?
I think it won't happen because, with the advent of globalization, conventional warfare is all but done for. Countries won't invade other countries because they'll get **** on with economic sanctions, which will cripple a country faster than bombs. Economic warfare and targeted espionage are the new battlefields, imo.

Besides, the last time a few countries got together and tried to take over the world, America (not including the Alleutians) wasn't even close to being invaded.

Yeah, I did reread it, and I totally assumed it was China, because that's what the types who think that America will be invaded believe America will be invaded by.

Neg, I have 120 rounds of 5.56 Federal XM loaded available for immediate access, and another 200 rounds of the same in my backpack. I have no pistol. I opted against the pistol because it was pretty clear to me that, in the scenario you described, war is imminent. If it was a bugout scenario and not an INCH scenario, I'd probably opt for a sidearm for concealability, but since I have to dodge NG checkpoints anyways, and a foreign invader is at our doorstep, I took the battle rifle. (Yes, I think the ruger mini 14 580 series is a battle rifle, this is a whole nother discussion, LOL) :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Where is your bag? :)
It is coming, it will be here by tomorrow. I don't have room to lay everything out where I am, and I'm not doing it in front of the neighbors, so I will be posting the pictures Tuesday. I will give everybody that is willing to buy in on this scenario one week from today, price of admission is the pics of your gear, etc. After that one week is up, we will start the rest of the story, and everyone that has posted their gear will be in it. We will all, that is everyone in this scenario, have some say on what goes down. There will be problems to solve, and anyone in the scenario must answer how they plan to solve each problem, and that includes me. Anyone in the scenario can ask questions and add to the scenario, but we will start that after the initial weeks grace period is up.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well I am going to ease on off of this thread, I got a lot of work to do, and a lot of pictures to take. :] So I will see you guys soon with pictures.
 

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Admittedly, this is the scenario I'm LEAST prepared for, lol. I don't see any Chinese Paratroopers coming down anytime soon, but this scenario sounds fun to play along, so I will! The first picture is what I would bring, the second picture is an earlier iteration of my EWLS system, but I have everything laid out in more detail in that picture, so you can get a better glimpse. I repeat, the second picture is for CLARIFICATION, and is NOT what I will be taking. I will be taking what is in the FIRST picture, the picture on the top.

Left to right, top to bottom, we have:
Whats the pack weight? Just curious
 

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Two points. More general than specific, but food for thought. I'm impressed with your thinking, but allow me to provide more to think about.
Certain scenarios have a degree of warning ahead of time, and as such, keeping stuff for all these possible scenarios packed up at all times is overkill. You are right to seasonalize your stuff. Think about having a core pack, with seasonal and scenario specific addendums that can be changed easily as required.
Secondly, you mention bugging out in the middle of the night. Something that's missed quite a lot is the large number of folks doing the same thing already, prepared for it or not. You won't be the only one, so expect a crowd. Don't expect your friendly farmers to be so friendly when you're just another face in the crowd looking for assistance. If you were to make arrangements beforehand with said farmers, you might have an edge up.
Third, a home is often more defendable in many urban areas than you think. You know the area and the advantages offered, unlike a piece of wilderness you know little about. Please recheck your premises concerning bugging out for most circumstances. Bugging in is almost always a better option, and unless you have immediate issues that force you to leave, put leaving further down on your priority list. With that in mind, also think about what you need to do to properly defend your home.

On the topic of defending your home, there are two distinct options. You can make it look like a fortress in which case you are inviting trouble, or make it look like nothing out of the ordinary, in which case stealth is your biggest defense. I have a co-worker who grew up Kosovo and told me stories (there are similar, more informative threads already here) and what it took to get snipers and other folks to leave them alone. Surprisingly, they lived at the top of a shot out apartment building, on a floor that appeared largely burnt out from a fire, but had one unit that you wouldn't know was there unless you looked for it.
 

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Before we dive to far into our educated guesses on what to take into the wilderness for a hypothetical situation lets review on an actual documentary on this very situation which has already happened in WW2 when a group of Jews escaped into the wilderness with nothing to start off with and survived in harsh winters with Nazi Troops on their trail the entire time and eventually banded together to form a formidable army of their own.

Please take the time to watch this video at least. We could all stand to learn a thing or two from these people.
I'm sorry if this post is exactly what you didn't want to see in this thread.
Ray Mears in Belarus 6 video series
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFB3FB8DF789D5920&feature=plcp
 

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I would load my pack up like I was going on a two week trek. 40-45 pounds max. There is no point in loading up a pack that you can't carry for any distance without stoping. In your scenario you need a shelter ie tent. A tarp is cover not shelter. Sleeping bag/pad, water purifier/extra filter, ammo, extra set of clothes, shoes/boots, four pair of socks, and as much food as space allows. The important thing is not to weigh yourself down to where movement and speed are impaired.
 

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Numquam Succumbe
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Before we dive to far into our educated guesses on what to take into the wilderness for a hypothetical situation lets review on an actual documentary on this very situation which has already happened in WW2 when a group of Jews escaped into the wilderness with nothing to start off with and survived in harsh winters with Nazi Troops on their trail the entire time and eventually banded together to form a formidable army of their own.

Please take the time to watch this video at least. We could all stand to learn a thing or two from these people.
I'm sorry if this post is exactly what you didn't want to see in this thread.
Ray Mears in Belarus 6 video series
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFB3FB8DF789D5920&feature=plcp
Dood! I was gonna recommend this to INCHPacker also in the first thread! Seems like it'd be right up his alley! :thumb:
 

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In the bottom of the post, I said Pack weighs 31lbs, 36lbs including an extra ~200rds of 5.56, and the Camelbak Delta 5 weighs 12lbs with 100rds of 5.56 and two liters of water.

In this scenario, I'd be carrying 48lbs of gear, although still only 35lbs on my back. :thumb:
Nice..that is a good solid workable pack weight. Ill bet you get that pack weight down over the next year as your bushcraft skills get better.:thumb::thumb:
 

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Numquam Succumbe
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Two points. More general than specific, but food for thought. I'm impressed with your thinking, but allow me to provide more to think about.
Certain scenarios have a degree of warning ahead of time, and as such, keeping stuff for all these possible scenarios packed up at all times is overkill. You are right to seasonalize your stuff. Think about having a core pack, with seasonal and scenario specific addendums that can be changed easily as required.
Secondly, you mention bugging out in the middle of the night. Something that's missed quite a lot is the large number of folks doing the same thing already, prepared for it or not. You won't be the only one, so expect a crowd. Don't expect your friendly farmers to be so friendly when you're just another face in the crowd looking for assistance. If you were to make arrangements beforehand with said farmers, you might have an edge up.
Third, a home is often more defendable in many urban areas than you think. You know the area and the advantages offered, unlike a piece of wilderness you know little about. Please recheck your premises concerning bugging out for most circumstances. Bugging in is almost always a better option, and unless you have immediate issues that force you to leave, put leaving further down on your priority list. With that in mind, also think about what you need to do to properly defend your home.

On the topic of defending your home, there are two distinct options. You can make it look like a fortress in which case you are inviting trouble, or make it look like nothing out of the ordinary, in which case stealth is your biggest defense. I have a co-worker who grew up Kosovo and told me stories (there are similar, more informative threads already here) and what it took to get snipers and other folks to leave them alone. Surprisingly, they lived at the top of a shot out apartment building, on a floor that appeared largely burnt out from a fire, but had one unit that you wouldn't know was there unless you looked for it.
Tsk Tsk Carl. You're not playing by the established rules. Reread the first post! :thumb:

This isn't a "What's the best way to address a SHTF" thread. It's a "Read the scenario posted by INCHPacker and play along" thread! :):thumb:
 

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Numquam Succumbe
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Nice..that is a good solid workable pack weight. Ill bet you get that pack weight down over the next year as your bushcraft skills get better.:thumb::thumb:
Yeah, I know from MUUUUUUUUUUCH experience in the military and civilian world that I can hump 25lbs (backpack weight, I've humped so much more if you want to talk about IBAS and SAAPI plates, but, I've found that, in the end, the weight on my back is the biggest impedence.) ALL DAY back to back and not be in pain. 30lbs back to back all day is bearable and not debilitating. 35lbs will start causing me pain at the end of the day, and is the point where I begin to start slowing my pace down.

So I went with a 30lb cap to allow me to modularize my bug-out and EWLS systems. In this way, I have 5lbs that I can adapt to the situation, be it a gas mask, ammunition, extra food, more water, more clothes, whatever.

I chose 35lbs because my pack will weigh a MAX of 35lbs at it's peak weight. Once the food has been devoured, 5lbs will be gone and I'll be down to 30lbs, and, as I use up the other consumable in my pack, water, I will drop down to 27lbs.

I'm a fatass, but I can haul ass with 27-30lbs in my backpack. :thumb:

So, in response to your response, I don't see my pack getting any lighter with bushcraft skills. Sure, I COULD go lighter, but I want the ability to maximize the amount of distance I can cover in a day on foot, and that means not having to built shelters every night, or fires everytime I want to purify my water.

A reasonable shelter will take you around two hours to build, and a good two-hour fire will take you an hour to prepare. That's 3 hours knocked out of every single day. My system *NEEDS* those 2-3 extra hours in order to do other things like trap and process game.

My food system (which I haven't made a video about yet, sadly) involves scouting ahead of the campsite for a good hour or so, and setting up my two 1.5 legholds for another good hour or so, and returning back for another good hour or so. So, I'm gonna need a good solid 2 hours (I can walk back in the twilight) of light at the end of every day to keep my ass in the proteeenz.

The system I'm building has the tools to utilize Bushcraft skills, but I'll really only be using a bushcraft skillset for food acquisition. Bushcraft skills are my safety net! :thumb:
 
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