[Belnik]

Interesting thought Belink, I had never thought of "Split squats" but I can see how they would be good, especially on the back and imagine the grip work!

I may have to give those a try, my back would sure appreciate it!

Thank you. :thumb:

I started doing them sort of as a one legged DL using Dbs and putting my rear leg on a bench. (I find the top of my foot on the bench works better then trying to have my toes bent on it) Working the lift with low reps and even singles starting w/bells on the ground. I played around with different forms, now when I do them they are far more "squat" like vs DL, and I get as deep into the stretch as I can.

i have not worked them much as of late, so when I started again I just did them without any weight at first getting the form back. (I'm still not doing them often as you can see in my log, but may just for fun.)

You have to play around with your stance, I found I start by standing up against the bench, and take a natural step forward with one foot, then raise the back foot up and its usually pretty close. I may have to hop a bit more "out" with the forward foot, but when doing it on a regular basis I "step" about perfectly every time. But it is one of those "not too far, not too close things"...

After doing them w/Dbs for a while, I started to push the weight more with a barbell. I did these in the cage, w/safety bars up to catch. It was a BIG difference using the barbell, balance is key!

Do your self a favor and work the form long and hard before working any weight. And certainly before you use a barbell on this. Balance is what fails first 99% of the time it seems.

Its a great exercise, I should get back into them...

 

[jojo64155]

Tuesday's workout wasn't that great, it was supposed to be a light day, kind of get ready for the heavy day Thursday, but shoulder pain put a big damper on it.

I may have to give up the drive for the big incline, I had no shoulder problems before I started trying to push it, and it's noticeable all the time now. I'm going to try it for one more round before I drop it, but I'm a bit leery right now.

Usual warm-ups

Seated military press
135X10X2
185X5X2 (shoulder is definitely tweaked so I backed off)

Dumbbell curls seated
50X10X3

Pushdowns (on a new machine, felt great)
110X10
150X10
210X10X3 ( I know the weight is inflated, but the feel was great, loved it)

Ab wheel
10X kneeling (love this thing)

I'm going to try adding in split squats on legs this week, that and think about adding in running/jogging this month. It's been a l-----o----n----g time since I've run. But my weight is coming down nicely and I'm feeling good, so as soon as It feels right, I'm going to go for it!

Hoping for a good day tomorrow.

 

[Belnik]

I'm foreseeing some new leg soreness coming up for you, go easy. When ever I don't run for a while I always feel a surprising amount of pain, add in some split squats to that and your going to feel it!

Its a shame about the shoulder, probably too much specialization too fast. I would not give up on it, just find an alternate route.

Do you do any face pulls? they tend to help balance out a lot of presses. And I don't know what to call them, but when in the pushup position or on hands and knees, swaying and rotating around at different push up heights has helped me in the past...used as a dynamic warmup/cool down.
Band pull-a-parts are another one I read about being good for the shoulders.

Worst case, back off, bring up the upper back, and triceps(if you can train them without pain), work some rehab exercises, and when you are ready again, a stronger back and triceps will just add to the mix in a great way.

Do you always work the same angle on the incline?

 

[44 Flattop]

Ab wheel
10X kneeling (love this thing)

Heh, neater'n a skeeters peter, isn't it! It was funny today, my abs were so sore from Monday's standing ab wheel, I was having trouble laying back on the bench! I had to grab my knees and roll back, otherwise my abs were screaming at me!

If I would have know 30 years ago what the Ab wheel was like, I'd have worn out a dozen by now!

 

[jojo64155]

I'm foreseeing some new leg soreness coming up for you, go easy. When ever I don't run for a while I always feel a surprising amount of pain, add in some split squats to that and your going to feel it!

Its a shame about the shoulder, probably too much specialization too fast. I would not give up on it, just find an alternate route.

Do you do any face pulls? they tend to help balance out a lot of presses. And I don't know what to call them, but when in the pushup position or on hands and knees, swaying and rotating around at different push up heights has helped me in the past...used as a dynamic warmup/cool down.
Band pull-a-parts are another one I read about being good for the shoulders.

Worst case, back off, bring up the upper back, and triceps(if you can train them without pain), work some rehab exercises, and when you are ready again, a stronger back and triceps will just add to the mix in a great way.

Do you always work the same angle on the incline?

Great points Belnik :thumb:

I'm going to try and address the questions, forgive me if I miss any.

I agree in reference to finding another way, I do hate to give up and am working on, thinking about another way.
I do face pulls, if you're referring to pulldowns done to the upper chest/face area. I like them a lot, just haven't done many of them lately, but that's changing.
I too had thought about bringing the upper back back into line, or strengthening it considerable anyway, it has to help.
I can and do work triceps, the machine I ran into the other day mimics dips, sine there is no dip rack, and it was great, I loved it. I used the entire stack (250lbs) and repped it out getting a horrendous pump. My tri's are still sore today, I love it!

Yes, the angle I use on incline is always 30 degs, maybe a greater angle would alleviate some shoulder pain....interesting thought...

Well today was supposed to be, and tomorrow will be, my heavy chest back day so I'll try some of these new ideas and let you know what happens.

 

[Belnik]

I figure there is little if any "info" I may have that you don't, but figure it can't hurt to throw out ideas.

For face pulls I never spent much time doing them from a pull down machine, meaning not with the pulley up high, but usually a low pulley to about level with my face. (i did them at an adjustable cable set up, had two stacks spaced about 8-10' apart. The pulley could be moved from down around ankle height to over head.) The lower setting felt better to me than the higher ones. (I also found the rope attachment favorable over "D" handles) Pulling to the face, focusing on a deep stretch, and pulling with the shoulder, not back. So less weight used then could be used, med reps.

I guess lacking such a set up you could try the low pulley with a seated cable row? Or if you get some bands you can put them anywhere on a power rack or at home.

If by chance you buy bands, make sure you're getting a set. I say this only because it was not clear when I bought mine, had to re order, pay shipping twice, etc.

 

[jojo64155]

I'm all about ideas, there's always something I haven't tried, forgotten, etc..Ideas are always appreciated.
It's funny how people can sometimes see things we can't, we get caught up in our own worlds, workouts, and others, can see, sometimes right away, a flaw in what we're doing.

I appreciate any, thoughts ideas, advice, etc.. someone has to offer.....well, most of the time.

 

[jojo64155]

Well, yesterday was supposed to be my heavy chest/back day, note I said "supposed to be"

I started with the usual warm-ups and felt pretty good, then as I moved over to the bench to warm up, even on 135 for my starting warm-ups, my shoulder hurt. I couldn't find the right elbow position to alleviate the pain. It didn't get any better ofter that.
I thought, heck I'll just do a few more warm-ups to get limbered up better, and all of them felt equally bad. That coupled with the addition of ear buds and an Ipod, didn't seem to help any.
I had said before that I like the weights shaking when I work out, LOUD music, rock, preferably, but LOUD. That's why I tried the Ipod, that tended to be more distracting to me than anything else.
So anyway, I tried 225X10X2 and couldn't get past the distracting pain so I dropped bench all together. I thought about dumbbells but the benches were tied up so I took that as a sign and headed to the dumbbell rack for a salvaging arm workout.

Dumbbell curls
60X10X2
65X10X1 (terrible form, but I tried anyway)
60X10X1
55X10X1
50X10X2

Feeling totally out of synch at this point I tried some pulldowns.
150X10X2
165X10X2
180X10X2 (These didn't feel bad, but didn't feel good either)

Another jump took me to the Hack squat rig where I like to do modified
front shoulder presses, plus it looks great with all the weight! :thumb:

The weight doesn't mean much, but it does get very heavy, with enough plates.
270X10X2
360X10X1 (4X45lb plates each side, facing machine, using back handles)
490X8X1 (5X45lb plates each side...)
490X7X2 (Grip is palms in towards each other, not facing forward like normal on a bar)
540X5X1 (it looks good, and feels good, but the weight is pretty
meaningless)

I had to try a set of inclines at this point, I saw a guy I knew doing some so I asked to work in on one set at 185lbs. The weight felt really light (since it is) but once again I couldn't find the groove. Every angle hurt my (right) shoulder, so I'm going to avoid anything that bothers my shoulder for a while working on whatever else I can supporting groups etc..

Maybe I can hit triceps real hard and be ready to get back after it on close grips!

Oh well, it's going to be a really nice day here so we're going with the kids and grandkids to Weston, MO for the day. It ought to be a good day.

 

[44 Flattop]

Sorry to hear about the shoulder pain, it sure isn't fun.

But have a great time with the family! :thumb:

 

[Belnik]

I almost assume you know of this site, but if not I thought you may find some interest in it. I have read it for years, I sometimes think its losing its edge, but still find good reads on it. Anyway here's one article that may give you a new idea?
http://www.t-nation.com/training/bench-press-like-a-boss

 

[jojo64155]

Thank s Belnik, and yes, I've read T-nation for years, but, there's always something we miss, something new, or forgotten.

I liked the article, I had never thought of the......oh what did he call them....Pos presses...(invisible board bench), but it makes sense. I'm going to try that even though I hate people that do half reps, since most of the time they're doing it because they can't do the weight they're doing...but his reasoning make sense.

The dumbbell presses and military's I do, and love em.

Anyway, thank you. :thumb:

 

[jojo64155]

Went to the gym today and not wanting to accept the lousy chest day, i did chest again, but different.
I thought I'd warm up A LOT and see how that went, stay away from anything that hurt and go slow. Here's what I ended up with.

Regular warm-ups

Flat Bench dumbbells (Wide like Belniks article talked about :thumb
60X10X2
80X10X3
100X10X3 (thought about going up, but why risk it, things are good, so no)

Tried incline dumbbells but I felt a twinge at amy angle I tried, so I stopped.

Front shoulder press
med/hvyX10X4 (felt good, no pains)

Shrugs w/dumbbells
100X10X3

Ab roller (sometimes I think this thing is from hell as well!)
3X8 from knees (I'm not 44 Flattop, I can't hang with standing)

Out of time, but overall it felt really good. I hated to avoid so many things but pushing an injury(?) probably isn't a good thing.

Sauna :thumb:

 

[44 Flattop]

There is almost always a way around an injury. Low backs are the worst but shoulders are a close second. I'm glad to see you found a way of relatively pain free lifting! There has been many times in the past when I had to drop the deadlift and rely on the squat only, other times I dropped the bench and focused on dips only or sometimes DB's only.

Standing reps with the ab wheel are brutal. Perhaps the most brutal exercise I've done. If you can stay with them and eventually move on a few standing, you'll know what I'm talking about. In the past I've literally feared my eyes would pop from my head, it is so demanding. I've even had to use a mouth guard because I started having problems with my jaw from doing them!

It took a few years of trial and errors before I figured out how to progress on them and once I did my first rep standing, it was Katy bar the door! But I can truthfully warn you, a standing rep is at least 100X more difficult than from the knees, perhaps more than that. But once you can do them, you'll find them to be the most beneficial movement you can do inside of a weight room, period.

Good work!

 

[jojo64155]

Yesterday, was a day off the regular schedule, and a bit chaotic, but I tried a throw together workout anyway.

Regular warm-ups, which are : 2 sets of the following
Dumbbell curls 20X10 going for good hard flex, immediately into front raises, and immediately into side lateral raises.
This usually gets my arms a little pumped, as well as my shoulders warmed up.

Dumbbell curls
40X10
50X10
60X10X3
55X10

Pushdowns
4X10 with narrow "V" bar
3X8-10 with flat bar

Flat Dumbbell presses
80X15X4 Great pump here, kept it real light

Out of time. It took about 30-40 minutes

Abs, leg raises at home 4X20

 

[jojo64155]

Yesterday was a busy day and I didn't feel that great, some sickness going around, so I did a ....piddling day I guess it would be.

Usual warm-ups. Then I branched right from warm-ups to curls going from 20's to

DUmbbell curls (2 minutes between sets)
30X10
40X10
50X15X3 (great pump here, my grip barely held out for 15 reps by set 3)

Pushdowns (just went down the stack until I couldn't. It was sticking bad..)
75X10
90X10
105X10
120X8X2

Military press bench taken, benches taken,, utility benches taken, I was about to leave since the leg equipment was full as well. But then I spied the Decline bench. I thought what they hey, I haven't done them in years so I went to it.

Decline Bench
185X15X2 (warm-up, it's what was on the bar)
225X10X2 (felt easy, good stretch, going to bottom of my pec.)
275X10X1 ( adjusted the bench a bit further down , towards my chin, good!)
275X 8X2 ( no shoulder pain at all, I think I'll bring these back in the fold)

Ab wheel from my knees (okay, I'm weak
3X10

Waiting for Monday!

 

[44 Flattop]

Declines are a natural feeling movement for me. Not sure why, but I'm pretty good at dips too, so perhaps its just pushing downward. Haven't done them for a dozen years with no where to do them.

A great workout, Jo! Way to get around the pain and sickness! Sure hope you don't catch what we fought around here for so long. :thumb:

 

[jojo64155]

Still staying away from heavy barbells, for the most part, I went with dumbbells today and it went pretty well, for what I was able to do...I hate busy gyms, people taking up space, I say taking up space because for the most part they're standing around talking and such, not really accomplishing anything

So It went like this.

Warm-ups (usual)

flat bench dumbbell presses
60 X10X2
80 X10X2
100X15X3 (felt good, but still had that twinge if I went to wide)

Incline dumbbell presses
80X10X1
100X10X3

Wanted to do declines but I think the guy was sleeping on there...next time I guess.

Dips!
4X10 (weighted, but not sure what the machine weight was/is, felt good either way)

Tricep pushdowns
4X15

Seated press - front
135X10X3 (felt I needed to warm up the right shoulder more)
185X10X3

Ab roller from hell
4X7 (man they were tough today, I must have been slacking to much)

 

[jojo64155]

I was feeling okay about todays workout, but read 44 Flattop's writing and...man...I am in over my head. The man has a LOT of knowledge/experience there, and can convey it very well to boot!

Well, here is my day, it started as legs, but like so many of my workouts lately, it went awry.

Stretching
Leg extensions
3X10X150

Thigh bicep, I call them curls
3X10X60 (nice flex)

Squat Narrow, toes forward
135X10X2
225X10X2
315X5X1
Squat standard width, toes out
365X5X1
405X5X1
455X5X1
495X1 form sloppy

Hip sled (I didn't track weights, had a hard time finding them)
lightX10X2
med lightX10
MedX10
heavierX10
HeavyX10 (it was all the 45's I could find, plus 4 35's ~ 700lbs guessing)

Tried rolling dumbbells (this is going to take time to get the hang of)
30X10
40X10X2
50X10X3 (didn't care for it, the only way I felt good was to bring the db's along side my head, and the bench is to narrow for that to be done really)

nose breakers
125X10X2
175X10X2
195X10X1 (All done with close grip off the chest when no more can be done)

momma looking for me, workout over

Pushdowns
115X10X3 turned away from the machine and leaning out

 

[44 Flattop]

Squat standard width, toes out
365X5X1
405X5X1
455X5X1
495X1 form sloppy

WOW! Four and a half bills for 5 and then nearly five bills for a single! Nice'un!

Tried rolling dumbbells (this is going to take time to get the hang of)
30X10
40X10X2
50X10X3 (didn't care for it, the only way I felt good was to bring the db's along side my head, and the bench is to narrow for that to be done really)

OK, here's the deal. They should be coming back along your head. I'm not sure what video you have saw, but let me explain how they are done properly.

Start by sitting on the end of your bench with the 'bells on your thighs. Kick back and lay with the bells extended at arms length. Bring the 'bells down like a close grip with elbows at your side, then roll them back past your ears until your elbows are pointing upward, then roll back to the bottom position DB bench, followed by pressing them up to lockout. That's one rep.

Then after your set is done, sit up with the 'bells resting on your thighs again, and make sure you're watching the second hand on the clock! At twelve seconds, kick back get started again!

Once you've performed them long enough, you'll get into a very nice rhythm. Right now I'm sure you're fighting them a bit, making them more difficult. My partner, though he's gotten better at them, still really hasn't mastered them. When I do them, it's almost like a smooth rocking chair, and apparently, looks very easy.

Just start light, take your time and you'll become comfortable soon enough! :thumb:

 

[jojo64155]

WOW! Four and a half bills for 5 and then nearly five bills for a single! Nice'un!



OK, here's the deal. They should be coming back along your head. I'm not sure what video you have saw, but let me explain how they are done properly.

Start by sitting on the end of your bench with the 'bells on your thighs. Kick back and lay with the bells extended at arms length. Bring the 'bells down like a close grip with elbows at your side, then roll them back past your ears until your elbows are pointing upward, then roll back to the bottom position DB bench, followed by pressing them up to lockout. That's one rep.

Then after your set is done, sit up with the 'bells resting on your thighs again, and make sure you're watching the second hand on the clock! At twelve seconds, kick back get started again!

Once you've performed them long enough, you'll get into a very nice rhythm. Right now I'm sure you're fighting them a bit, making them more difficult. My partner, though he's gotten better at them, still really hasn't mastered them. When I do them, it's almost like a smooth rocking chair, and apparently, looks very easy.

Just start light, take your time and you'll become comfortable soon enough! :thumb:

First, you're right, my form isn't as you describe, I was fighting it so to speak, looking for the right or best feeling track. I tried to mimic, more or less, nose breakers but with dumbbells, wrongoo. No brief pause, no lowering and then rocking back, and the list goes on..so let me get this straight.

They are done to failure? Brief 12 second pause.

What are the recommended rep/set counts?

I'll try again Sunday.

On another note, the squats felt good, better than I had expected, but, as expected, I'm paying for it today. My glutes are killing me, even though I walked for a couple of miles later that evening. My knees are expected to follow, that's why I rarely do squats.