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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Mosin Nagant 91/30 serial, markings and other things of interest.

OKay after going through all my cleaning, I must say I have a very beautiful Mosin Nagant. Though I am perplexed by the serial numbers, I do know it is a Tula made in 1942.

Stock Marking I discovered is a Arms depot/refurbishment mark
from a Soviet facility located in Ukraine



Shoulder butt plate Serial #711 - There is also a letter K stamped into the wood below my hand.



Lower Serial #711



Bolt Serial #711



Receiver Info:

Tula Star, 1942 no.
3682 - Is a 1934 Izhevsk SCW number, but cant be cause it is a Tula 1942
4T 711



Barrel info which I think was added by Liberty Arms



The Nagant - I love the rich dark wood




Markings

 

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Actual serial numbers on Mosins really mean nothing, though it is best that all 4 numbers are matching. If you have mismatched serial numbers then the rifle had parts from more than one firearm when it was rebuilt. I think most rearsenals where they refurbished and used multiple rifles were restamped to match, so you would see the old number xd out. But I have heard that this is not always the case. As for specific serial numbers, the aresenals started each year at 1 and ended at however many they made that year. So serial numbers had no bearing on what year or where it was made.

There is a lot of good info at 762x54r.net.

And congrats on that beautiful new Mosin :thumb:
 

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Serial numbers and markings are explained on http://7.62x54r.net/
Rifles were manufactured in lots of 10,000. Your serial number consists of two Russian letters followed by a number between 1 and 9,999. The two Russian letters represent the lot ID. The number represents where the rifle sits in the lot. I can't see your stamp clearly enough to read it in the picture. The "T" looks more like a Russian G to me. And I'm guessing the 4 is actually a Russian D

The square with line crossed out is a Ukrainian refurbish mark. At some point your rifle was re-arsenaled in the Ukraine.

The 3682 shouldn't be there and that is confusing to me. There should only be one serial number unless the rifle was manufactured with a barrel taken from another rifle. There will be more marks on the underside of your receiver which may clarify the history. But that 3682 looks like a pre-1937 barrel stamp.

The Battle of Moscow took place October of 41 to January of 42. Tula is just south of Moscow. Production at Tula was limited in 41 due to the proximity of the war. Production kicked back up in 42. But that might explain that additional barrel number and the use of a non matching barrel to complete your rifle.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Stamp on rear receiver



No stamp on the under belly but it appears there is an X before 3682, an X with the left side of it with full extensions and the right side X legs are half the size of the left.

 

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I don't see the accuracy proof stamps the circle K and concentric O. They may have skipped those steps in '42 given that it was do or die time for the USSR. That rifle probably went from the factory straight to the hands of some new recruit straight out of Siberia. He probably got a fist full of ammo if he was lucky. But at least he got a rifle, a lot of them didn't.

What's the bore and the crown look like? That's the money question as to whether it will shoot straight or not. It might not of been fired. The casualty rates in the Soviet counter attack were outrageous.

The stock looks like it will clean up nice. Some Perma Blue by Birchwood Casey will blacken up the bluing on the rifle. After applying Perma Blue give it a thick coat of gun oil. The oil really helps the Perma Blue to cure evenly without blotching.

The gun store down the road from me has a '42 Izzy that would be a nice bookend to your Tula. The '42 Izzy is blonde. A big contrast to your Tula.

Congrats on the rifle. Now I'm going to have to resist the temptation of another Mosin buy.
 

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Stamp on rear receiver



No stamp on the under belly but it appears there is an X before 3682, an X with the left side of it with full extensions and the right side X legs are half the size of the left.

That doesn't look like a Russian X letter which is like our H. The y looking symbol to the right is used as a chek mark - it is like our "ch". So something met inspection. If I was guessing I'd say that X means the barrel was rejected on the first run and then passed on the next run after being re-machined. Which would explain why it indexes with the original serial number to the side rather than on the top.

In any event it is an unusual mark which is usually a good thing in a surplus rifle.
 

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Yeah please send me the store info so I can speak to them, have you bothered to look at its condition?
The stock is in excellent condition. The receiver is typical war year production with the rough machining. Bolt movement was good. I don't recall if the extractor was hammered in or not. The crown was not super tight but it was descent, lands are visible at the crown. No counter bore. No crown damage. Not a virgin but not a war whore either.
 

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Is there any way to find the history of the Mosin Nagant we purchased?

We purchased a Mosin Nagant recently and were just curious if there is anyway to find out the true history of the exact gun we have purchased using the serial #'s or anything?
 

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Exact history - no. But assuming it's a Russian rifle (the majority are), you should find some useful info stamped in plain view, including a year, and the arsenal mark. The year is quite simply the year the rifle was manufactured. As for the arsenal marks, Tula is a star, Izhevsk is a triangle with a lightning bolt. Both appear on the top of the receiver.

The most common Russian model we find today is the 91/30. The model name refers to adoption in 1891, modification in 1930. This was the workhorse of WWII, the standard Red Army rifle. Somewhat less common are the M44 (carbine with folding bayonet adopted in 1944) and M38 (carbine without folding bayonet adopted in 1938).

Tula rifles are considered a little more valuable, for no good reason. Probably because it's easier to say "Tula" and we think the star looks cool. Also an apples-to-oranges thing relating to Tula nearly being overrun during the war, but that's getting in the weeds. How do you know if you have a Tula - does it have a star on the top of the receiver? It's not small or subtle, you'll know if it's there.

Prewar rifles are considered a little more valuable, since they generally show fewer corners cut in their construction. How do you know if your rifle is prewar, read the date on top of the receiver.

Hex receiver rifles are considered a little more valuable because the Russians stopped making hex receivers circa 1930, so it's a guarantee that the rifle is prewar by a big margin. There is also a rumor that they are stronger, but I am pretty sure they are no stronger or weaker than round receiver rifles. How do you know if your rifle has a hex receiver, is the part where the date is written more round, or is it octagonal in shape? If it's octagonal, that's what's commonly called a hex receiver (don't ask me why it's called a hex and not an oct).

It is possible your rifle was made before 1930, in which case you may wonder how it's a "91/30." Those rifles are usually what is known as an ex-Dragoon. The Dragoon was a shortened version of the original Model 91. The two main differences between a Model 91 and a Model 91/30 were 1) shorter barrel, 2) the sights were in meters instead of an older Russian measurement. The Dragoon already had the shorter length. The only difference between a Dragoon and a 91/30 is the sights. And, Dragoons typically had hex receivers, while original 91/30s typically did not, but that isn't a design choice, it's just a change in manufacturing method. Most Dragoons were used in original form up to and during the war, and changed to 91/30 status after the war while being rearsenaled. The change from Dragoon to 91/30 was merely replacement of sights, plus any other refurbishment the rifle may have needed at that time.

Most Mosin-Nagants were used against the Germans, but there's no way to tell with any particular rifle. A rifle built prior to the Battle of Stalingrad had a great chance of being used in that battle due to its size and duration, but then again, it could have belonged to a sentry guarding a Siberian airfield, for all we know. There are no records at that level.
 

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Hello all. Just joined. I have a somewhat customized Mosin M91/30. Fairly certain it's Izhevsk arsenal, serial #KN1247 (matching on all 4 locations, barrel, bolt, magazine baseplate, and buttplate). However, there are some markings that I'm fairly certain are not factory, and I'm having a hard time figuring them out. Photos included for your viewing.https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tv77pkv7g4f58c2/AACnnNQbMdi9l1AyFcnbNCe4a?dl=0
 
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