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Discussion Starter #1
My daughter's purse was snatched from outside the classroom door where she left it while visiting the girls room.
When class started she noticed it missing, went to the office to inquire and found it had been tossed on suspicion of another student who had turned it in.
I get a call, the police are called to the school to cite her for possession of tobacco.

A week later we have to appear before the City Judge.

End result:
3 days suspension from school
$ 50.00 fine
$ 85.00 surcharge (???)
4 required classes on "tobacco education" at $ 15.00 each

all minimum sentencing.

$ 195.00 for possession of tobacco by a minor (has nothing to do with being on campus)

Remember the days of calling the parents to resolve these issues?
Guess it wasn't lucrative enough...

Though I don't condone my child's smoking, and she knows I am unhappy about it, I also think this is totally ridiculous. Half hour salary/time from both the city cop and the judge and all this paper pushing and fines for a lousy pack of cigarettes?

And all of this in Montana, one of the last PC-free bastions in this country. I had no idea it had come to this. Sad.
:(
 

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went to the office to inquire and found it had been tossed on suspicion of another student who had turned it in.
So it was out of her control and smokes were found in it ???

" Judge , prove they are my girls smokes "


You just got walked on hard , if they questioned her in school with out you present ...........................wont hold up in court .

I would rather spend 4 grand on a lawyer than let the bastards win .

Now , find some pics of lung cancer and make your kid carry them with her .
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Oh I understand it wouldn't hold-up. Could fight it and win vs. am able to fight it and win are two different things. Were I independently wealthy...

The purse was carried to the office by another student, then searched before my child knew where it had disappeared to. Cops were there in the VP's office, and the citation was written by the time I arrived.

Hell, I didn't even learn how they happened across her purse until after we had left the school with citation in-hand and she had a chance to explain to me what had happened.

I'm sure a lot is presumed, that is, that a parent won't argue the citation, at least not over something as trivial as this, or that they, like me, cannot afford 4 grand for attorneys - think that's at least part of the point of the nonsensical charges these days.


Just thought I'd share as the whole thing is pathetic imo.
 

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No way this would stick. You need to prepare you kids to handle this type of situation. As the above poster said. It was out of her possesion. You don't need money to stand next to your daughter in court and ask these questions. Honesty (in this situation) is for fools and victim. Sorry, just my opinion.
 

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What are the privacy rights of the students pertaining to personal belongings. I wonder if a search of her purse was legal.

Lawyer up and stick it to them
OR
Represent your daughter after you read up a bit.
 

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Deo VIndice
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Jeez...when I was 11, I was sent to the local gas station with 59 cents to get smokes for my mom... Can't do that now...they'd probably put me on death row. :)
 
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[email protected], I remember going to high school several years back, in the late 90's to be exact and we were allowed to smoke at school during lunch and a break between 6th and 7th period. Although I didn't smoke, I did, and still do use smokeless tobacco.

No doubt smoking is bad, but I have seen people who never touched a cigarette their entire life die after it was discovered they were ate up with lung cancer. My grandfather smoked most all his life and when he passed away his lungs were not damaged at all.
 

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" Judge , prove they are my girls smokes "
Exactly, only I wouldn't have walked out of the office before knowing the whole story. I saw the beginning of the end with the public school system my last couple of years in the late 90's. I got to see it transform from duking it out in the gym to getting a citation for defending yourself. I'm sure I got caught with smokes a time or two, but don't remember specifically because nothing happened of it. The police weren't involved unless you came in guns blazing. It makes me sad and pissed at the same time when I think about all the bull**** they have in effect now. It's all just conditioning the kids for what they are going to experience later in life.
 

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My daughter's purse was snatched from outside the classroom door where she left it while visiting the girls room.
When class started she noticed it missing, went to the office to inquire and found it had been tossed on suspicion of another student who had turned it in.
I get a call, the police are called to the school to cite her for possession of tobacco.

A week later we have to appear before the City Judge.

End result:
3 days suspension from school
$ 50.00 fine
$ 85.00 surcharge (???)
4 required classes on "tobacco education" at $ 15.00 each

all minimum sentencing.

$ 195.00 for possession of tobacco by a minor (has nothing to do with being on campus)

Remember the days of calling the parents to resolve these issues?
Guess it wasn't lucrative enough...

Though I don't condone my child's smoking, and she knows I am unhappy about it, I also think this is totally ridiculous. Half hour salary/time from both the city cop and the judge and all this paper pushing and fines for a lousy pack of cigarettes?

And all of this in Montana, one of the last PC-free bastions in this country. I had no idea it had come to this. Sad.
:(
APPEAL...that cost them money......grounds, the cigs were "planted"!!btw, how old is she...this happened to my daughter 17 years old, she coulda been in the military........hmmmm
 

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We had a smoking area at school, and most of us went there in the morning to "wake and bake", lol!
I guess I was lucky to go to school in the '70s.

But I would make them prove in court that the smokes were your daughters. Then I would ask the school for the justification for searching the purse without her being present, questioning your daughter without you (or other guardian) being present.
In the future, tell your daughter to "lawyer up", not speak at all until you (or an attorney) is present to protect her interests.
 

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I'm all against illegal search and seizure and the way they went about it was wrong.. But on the flip side, maybe this will get your daughter to quit such a useless habit that is going to cost her A LOT more than the fines that will be paid for this...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
No one mentioned the age/grade level here...........
15, HS Freshman

She has a pt job, and she will be paying the fines on her own.

We both knew the smokes were hers - no doubt, so in all honesty arguing how they got there would be a matter of legality. She was guilty - I knew this.

I don't agree with the methods employed, in fact i strongly disagree with them. Furthermore, I disagree with this type of thing being considered "criminal action" - just seems petty to me.

She does now understand that in the future she is to ask for her mom, and to say _nothing_ else before I am present. She knows now that this is her right.

We did discuss how this could be disputed, that we could have it thrown out, and even now, after she has entered a plea, I could still go after the school (legally) because of the manner with which they went about this. They never told her she had a right to have me present with her, the cops spoke with her before I arrived, etc.

Leaned toward FP's opinion in his statement ^^ here though, perhaps she'll learn a valuable lesson in avoiding this type of BS/encounter with the law in the first place, and yes, I'm sure hoping the classes will have some gruesome aspect.

She was experimenting, and perhaps showing-off, but she is by no means a smoker. Maybe this will help deter her from further experimentation. It will put a hefty dent in her income for the next few months, that I assure you.

For the record, I would indeed fight tooth and nail over situations like this, but don't feel that this is the particular instance to show those colors in myself. This is a very, very small town. Raising a stink will gain much public attention. There are a lot of sleepwalkers here, and I fear arguing a matter such as this would quickly snowball into way too much concern about me, my parenting, lifestyle, etc. They are all-about the _one_ local HS here, which is very well funded by private dollars from alumni. There are women my age who still go around boasting about being prom queen 25 years ago, ffs...

My/our whole experience in living out here has been like a trip to the twilight zone for me. :confused:
 

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Along those same lines my son was accused of cutting up the seats in a school bus with a knife..The school principal called me and I was informed that we needed to pay approx.500.00 to repair the seat.I just ask him to let me see the on bus videos because all the busses have them here and just one other small detail, was it not a major offence for someone to have a knife on school property?I told him if my son did this damage I will certanly pay for it just let me see the proof. He just stammered a second then said he would get back to me on the matter....hummmm never did hear another word about the problem.
 
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Conditioning people to be in the system, thats all this crap is. EVERYTHING IS A CRIME!!
How about the kid that fell asleep in class and ended up in court?

Its all done in increments. Death from a thousand cuts. The death of America!
 
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What are the privacy rights of the students pertaining to personal belongings. I wonder if a search of her purse was legal.

Lawyer up and stick it to them
OR
Represent your daughter after you read up a bit.
No privacey rights while on school grounds. Searches and seizures do not require do-process or protective rights.

Basically in public school you drop off your constitution at the door.

Your bag, purse, locker and car can be searched while on school property. School officials must do it, police cannot without probable cause.



-Cade
 

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No doubt smoking is bad, but I have seen people who never touched a cigarette their entire life die after it was discovered they were ate up with lung cancer. My grandfather smoked most all his life and when he passed away his lungs were not damaged at all.
Man, something really smells like bull**** in this thread.
 

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Simple Man
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No privacey rights while on school grounds. Searches and seizures do not require do-process or protective rights.

Basically in public school you drop off your constitution at the door.

Your bag, purse, locker and car can be searched while on school property. School officials must do it, police cannot without probable cause.



-Cade
There was a court ruling sometime ago that stated, just because you walk through the door of a school you do not give up your constitutional rights, nor can you "sign" them away.
 
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There was a court ruling sometime ago that stated, just because you walk through the door of a school you do not give up your constitutional rights, nor can you "sign" them away.
You are exactly correct, one of the cases was my own. My father left his pistol in my car, and I drove to school (legally able to posses, not own), long story short I withdrew (at my dads request) from that school, nothing happened in the long run. Your rights are yours, if they are violated it doesn't matter where. Did it cost, was it a pain, did I lose credits, was it worth it? YES, pay for what you get, or get nothing.

In the short run I was arrested, had the whole nine, then let go when my lawyer found out (yes he is STILL on retainer). I met with prosecutors, lawyers, the whole nine (against this PD and school). I let it go, they could possibly learn a lesson, plus my name on the school wouldn't sound right :)
 
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