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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would like to start a thread for members of the forum who have questions about buying & using what is generally thought of as military gear.

I am hoping that some of the veterans can lend their views on equipment, use
& use fullness

1. rifles , AR/AK/FAL? and others
2. vests & plate carriers
3. web gear
4. anything else that is generally thought of as military gear
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I opened this topic because I see questions about " military type"
( both real military & aftermarket tacti-cool gear being discussed across the forum
and I thought we might want to put the topic in one place
( like the endless bug-out bag thread)

Q: 1, so you are ether stationary ( sentry) or out hunting and it's in the low 30degree range. you know you will be out for 8+ hours.

q:2, so you are ether stationary ( sentry) or out hunting and it's in the high 30's degree range. in the rain you know you will be out for 8+ hours.

and you are telling me that the SOP for military operations is to "suck it up"??
after spending billion's of dollars on defense..this is what we have to show for it??

this is why I view military equipment & protocol with a degree of scepticism
 

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Currently surviving SHTF
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I opened this topic because I see questions about " military type"
( both real military & aftermarket tacti-cool gear being discussed across the forum
and I thought we might want to put the topic in one place
( like the endless bug-out bag thread)

Q: 1, so you are ether stationary ( sentry) or out hunting and it's in the low 30degree range. you know you will be out for 8+ hours.

q:2, so you are ether stationary ( sentry) or out hunting and it's in the high 30's degree range. in the rain you know you will be out for 8+ hours.

and you are telling me that the SOP for military operations is to "suck it up"??
after spending billion's of dollars on defense..this is what we have to show for it??

this is why I view military equipment & protocol with a degree of scepticism
Sceptic? Well, he is right. Suck it up is the montra. Don't believe? Do just 1 hitch with the infantry. You'll be better and tougher for it.
 

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..

and you are telling me that the SOP for military operations is to "suck it up"??
after spending billion's of dollars on defense..this is what we have to show for it??

this is why I view military equipment & protocol with a degree of scepticism
Yes, exactly.

In Recon School we lost 11 people the first day before breakfast.
After we fireman's carried to and from the chow haul and were in the classroom the XO drew a circle on the board about the size of a quarter. He said: "THIS is your comfort zone" (pointed to a stack of books ~18 inches high) "Our job is NOT to teach you this, your job is to learn it. Out job is to expand your comfort zone. (Drew a circle which took up the entire board.) IF you graduate, this will be your comfort zone."

He was right. ARS was the hardest thing I've done. They say we saw some **** in Iraq compared to most, Faluja November 2004 etc.
Recon School was harder.

It's not that I'm tougher than you, it's not that I'm better trained than you, it's not that I'm better equipped than you (etc)
It's that I KNOW I CAN.

It's got its downsides, pushing too much in Iraq is what's left me a cripple, but it makes most "normal peoples" frames of reference absurd. I graduated with a broken foot, went to the doc 3x, got told "if you come back one more time we are shipping you home" I said "I won't be back" once you run on it long enough the pain overwhelms your nervous system and your feet go numb. About 6 weeks after graduation I got feeling back in them and had to get them taken care of... but it was done.

After one of my foot surgeries they asked me something (I forget, was just regaining conciousness) and I replied that if they put 10 million on the other side of the hospital room I'd get out of bed, walk across the room, and walk out of the hospital with it.

Even now, having to sit down 15 out of every 30 minutes I know I can do things you (assuming your a "normal person) physically and mentally can't. BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW TO QUIT. I HAVE learned to some degree how to "do it if it's worth it" even now, a shadow of my former self I can and occasionally have out worked noncripples. It just has to be worth the price I pay after.

I can/have stay awake for 3 days. I may/will be hallucinating but I can run a radio, complete a mission and otherwise do mission esential tasks correctly.
Because I've done it.

I can/have ran from one pond to the next, breaking the ice to swim across the pond and running to the next one, finishing with swimming out into the Atlantic/Chesapeake Bay in January, knowing how fast to run to avoid hypothermia (I wasn't running fast with a broken foot.) By watching guys "hype out" behind me.
Because I've done it.

I can/have spent all afternoon crossing an open field on my belly, ****ing on myself while people standing on hummers with binos tried to direct other people to where they thought i was and looked for me to fail me for the training evolution.
Because I've done it.

I can/have cuddled up with other dudes while treading water as we took turns ****ing so that we could all enjoy the warm for a second or two.
Because I've done it. (And yes, that REALLY sucks!)

I can/have been returning to the wire and gotten fragged for ANOTHER mission (say, to take out a VBID factory AND snatch a HVT, and went and completed it... "just another day on the job"
Because I've done it.

I can/have worked on a wounded buddy fir what seemed like hours, loaded him on the med evac chopper, wiped his blood off best I can, and went back to completing the mission.
Because I've done it.

Etc.

Yes "Special operations" are in great physical shape, and are highly trained. But honestly there are many people who are in just as good physical shape... what makes them different is they "embrace the suck" when you quit their day is just getting started.

And that's why they beat you.
 

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Time to melt snowflakes!
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Q: 1, so you are ether stationary ( sentry) or out hunting and it's in the low 30degree range. you know you will be out for 8+ hours.

q:2, so you are ether stationary ( sentry) or out hunting and it's in the high 30's degree range. in the rain you know you will be out for 8+ hours.[?QUOTE]
I've done the above, usually a poncho (if I was lucky) and standard gear, with maybe gloves.

and you are telling me that the SOP for military operations is to "suck it up"??
Pretty much, yeah. The individual is capable of enduring some pretty harsh crap. The biggest lesson I got from the Army was not the combat training, no the physical training, but them instilling in me the willingness and knowledge that I could push through the 'suck' and through to the other side.

after spending billion's of dollars on defense..this is what we have to show for it??
Keep in mind, the average 'joe' does not see the 'high end' equipment, and we usually ended up purchasing much of our own gear or acquiring it via other methods.

this is why I view military equipment & protocol with a degree of scepticism
See above. While not the perfect gear (opinions vary) the gear is not what makes it effective, it is who is wearing it and their mindset.

Until you have literally lived in an IBA (slept, crapped, ate etc) it is hard to explain it thoroughly. You get used to it.
 

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I opened this topic because I see questions about " military type"
( both real military & aftermarket tacti-cool gear being discussed across the forum
and I thought we might want to put the topic in one place
( like the endless bug-out bag thread)

Q: 1, so you are ether stationary ( sentry) or out hunting and it's in the low 30degree range. you know you will be out for 8+ hours.

q:2, so you are ether stationary ( sentry) or out hunting and it's in the high 30's degree range. in the rain you know you will be out for 8+ hours.

and you are telling me that the SOP for military operations is to "suck it up"??
after spending billion's of dollars on defense..this is what we have to show for it??

this is why I view military equipment & protocol with a degree of scepticism
Cold weather it helps you stay warm

I. Hot weather you drink more water
what does the money spent on armor have to do with the weather?
 

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SBs Resident Non Prepper
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I opened this topic because I see questions about " military type"
( both real military & aftermarket tacti-cool gear being discussed across the forum
and I thought we might want to put the topic in one place
( like the endless bug-out bag thread)

Q: 1, so you are ether stationary ( sentry) or out hunting and it's in the low 30degree range. you know you will be out for 8+ hours.

q:2, so you are ether stationary ( sentry) or out hunting and it's in the high 30's degree range. in the rain you know you will be out for 8+ hours.

and you are telling me that the SOP for military operations is to "suck it up"??
after spending billion's of dollars on defense..this is what we have to show for it??

this is why I view military equipment & protocol with a degree of scepticism
Yup...suck it up and drive on.
If you haven't served...I don't think you can view military protocol with any scepticism. :thumb:
 

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Time to melt snowflakes!
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Suck it up is exactly what it comes down to. I never thought anyone would ask that kind of question.
OP, this is not condescending, but it is hard to describe the mentality of 'suck it up' if you have not served. It is the ability to simply 'deal with it'.

Military gear is not perfect, for that matter no gear is perfect.

The mindset which is instilled in most is the simple drive to 'deal with it' or to push through for that little bit extra. You deal with the 'suck' and complete the mission, with whatever gear you have available. That 'high speed' gear all over the news and on the .gov sites are not always standard issue.

In your situation above with the 'eight hours' in '30 degree' weather, that is not typical. Usually it is much longer than eight hours, try multiple days/weeks/months like that. We had regular BDU/DCU's, combat boots and if you were REAL lucky wet-weather gear and/or a poncho (which never kept you dry).
 

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it is hard to describe the mentality of 'suck it up' if you have not served. It is the ability to simply 'deal with it'.
It's hard to describe what took months of continuous, intensive training to accomplish.

To the OP:
The idea is to set the threshold for dealing with adversity so high during training that when it comes to combat or any emergency situation, we can deal with it. We will not experience stress like most people will and bad weather isn't even a factor. Not when your mentality and attitude towards hardships are aligned properly.
 

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I don't really understand the premise of this thread. Do you want to know how to use issued gear? How to deal with sucking? What exactly?

Before buying a bunch of crap (throwing money at problems) pick up a Chinese AK chest rig. AR mags fit in them too. They're like $10. Get some hiking boots and good socks.

Put three full mags in it or socks full of sand to make the equivalent weight and go for a run around in a park. Do it for a few miles. Keep doing that till you get faster. Go camping for a weekend with nothing more than a firestarter, knife, canteen and blanket or tarp. Learn what you can do without.

Many out there seem to think they need the same loadout I carried as a LRS guy/Infantry Scout in Iraq and Afghanistan for whatever reason. No, you don't. Your best bet actually in most cases is to hide, unless you have the numbers to take on who/whatever. And even then, expect to take large numbers of casualties.

And Nomad is pretty much spot on above.
 

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i was in the air guard... no where near the training nomad has, but i can still tell you when there is a job to do you do it. complain later.
if you are asking straight questions about the equipment, loosen your gear put what you need to access out side your cold weather gear. do your job.
if its raining put a poncho on over it, do your job
whats the best equipment for the job? what ever you got, make it work
equipment is a lot like cars some people like ford some like chevy some like toyoda all depends on what you are use to
i prefer the older web gear but ive never worn a load bearing vest with plate carrier, i even prefer the old steel pot helmet over the kevlar
 

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....and if you were in we wouldn't be discussing this!:thumb:
Nomad knows what I am gonna say here. He lived the life just like me.

I didn't want to come off as condecending. But.. others have answered the op as well. I was a grunt. Carried so much **** that I'd have to dump my own stuff to do it.. like ammo, mortar rounds, claymores..etc...

Any of you combat arms guys know this...

But a civvie? Never will understand, never believe what it is like.

Like your vest being white with salt from profuse sweating..

Or stripping rations down to make room for another saw drum...

Or your ruck weighing more than you (happened all the time, we weighed in at the 101 before an insertion...the pogues could never believe how much **** we carried).
 

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Best advice....

Wear it. Run in it. It was never designed to be comfortable. You just get used to it.

If you don't get used to it.. or never wear it cuz "it's too heavy" it will kick your ass when you need it. Hope you are wearing it then..cuz when it slows you down, you'll get to find out how effective it is in stopping rounds.
 

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Embrace the suck
I haven't done what you guys have, but I completed the last 3 1/2 weeks of boot camp with a broken big toe because I did not want to be one of the "sick, lame and lazy" walking at the back of the company. I did this as the guidon bearer where I had to run in front of the company and basically set the pace for everyone else. As for the stuff you guys did, I sure as hell would have tried. Would I have endured? Unless they carried me back to sickbay, yes.
 

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As another military guy...yes, they are right.

Commercial gear fits better and sometimes works better and once in a great while lasts better...but that's not what the military uses. Sometimes they use whatever they use because they got it cheap. Sometimes it just fits some old specs that no one has bothered looking at for 30 years. Once in a while, they get something that is actually pretty good, and once in a blue moon, it works good, feels good, and then they usually run out of them before YOU get one.:rolleyes:

You strap it on, suck it up, and do the job, and gripe about it with your buddies before, during, and after..:thumb:

Messed up a ligament in the shoulder during basic, could barely do any pushups, but I did 30 to get out of basic, then spent the next 3 months in AIT healing and rehabbing it on a profile:rolleyes:
At the end of AIT I maxed the PT scores...those drills were mad at me! :D:
 
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