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Grevcon 10
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Discussion Starter #1
Emergency room nursing staff at a Detroit hospital were told to leave Sunday night after they refused to work and demanded more nurses be brought into their overrun emergency room, health care workers there told CNN.
“Because we cannot safely take care of your loved ones out here with just six, seven nurses and multiple (ventilators) and multiple people on drips. It’s not right. We had two nurses the other day who had 26 patients with 10 (ventilators).”

The nurses need extra help, because for three straight weeks they’ve had more than 110 patients in the ER, Hadwan said in the video.
https://fox2now.com/news/detroit-hospital-nurses-refuse-to-work-without-more-help-ordered-to-leave/

ITYS. Thanks for getting the previous thread locked when I tried to warn people.

Medical staff in the US are not all going to go down with the ship. People need to understand that we're not going to be able to keep all the hospitals up and running. We won't have the staff to run these things. You can get all the vents in the world, turn as many schools into hospitals as you want, but we're going to struggle to find people to staff them.
 

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What do medical staffs do when there are not enough medical supplies and equipment to help people in a current scenario of no cure or vaccine? I am asking because I have no clue. I last few times I had to be in hospitals, I find the whole industry poorly run and setup more like a greedy farmer family with only one cow; everyone wants to stop by to say hi and milk you.
 

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Possum Lover
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Redneck, they take care of the rich/powerful/influential and **** the rest.

Especially the elderly and disabled.

Caregivers for the mentally slow have been weeping and wailing for a while because they know what is going to happen to their precious little "nonverbal self stimulator" when he gets sick. They are just going to let them die and take care of the rich and powerful lawyer instead.

I will call 911 with clear eyes if/when my husband gets sick and I honestly will not expect to see him again.
 
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Grevcon 10
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Discussion Starter #5
What do medical staffs do when there are not enough medical supplies and equipment to help people in a current scenario of no cure or vaccine? I am asking because I have no clue. I last few times I had to be in hospitals, I find the whole industry poorly run and setup more like a greedy farmer family with only one cow; everyone wants to stop by to say hi and milk you.
Comfort care. You do what you can to keep patient suffering to a minimum.
 

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They are not all going to go down with the ship your right. At some point there going to realize its there family and there health or a pay check.

I'm not even a healthcare worker and I'm burning all my time and prob going to take a month unpaid. I work in the public transportation industry out of NYC.
 

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Just had a telephone appt with my primary care doc at the VA, and she told me they have pulled the nurses out of the clinic (not sure if just mine or all over) and reassigned them to the hospital.

They have COVID floors at the VA hospital and staff are required to do 3 month rotations.

Some have already resigned in lieu of doing it. That's healthcare staff, not restricted to RNs.

On another note, she said the VA has known about the virus since January and was getting plans in place even then.
 

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I talked with a friend over the weekend. A local hospital had two doctors drop retirement in mid-March and another is working on his paperwork now.

Our primary care provider is refusing to see people right now all together, it doesn't matter whats ailing you. They're throwing meds at people right now instead of even bothering doing video with people. It's almost as if attempting to make an appointment with them is you going out of your way to upset them on purpose.
 

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I think this will be a real problem, as others have alluded. Between getting sick, and/or fear of getting sick, staffing could be significantly impacting, creating a true medical crisis.

My hat is off to anyone that can work through this in the medical profession (and really any others where they are high risk due to interactions). They are better folks than me as no way I would take the risk.
 

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Grevcon 10
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Discussion Starter #11
I'm really trying to understand your point. The article you posted had nurses who were placed in overwhelming and medically dangerous positions. They knew they couldn't provide their patients even the most basic level of care.
That's the vast majority of nurses eventually. That's my point.

It's not a moral judgement. Every woman in my family is a nurse. I spent the vast majority of my working life in the medical field too. I have nothing against them. This is a practical issue. As a practical matter, we are not going to be able to maintain staffing in medical facilities as this pandemic continues. Hell, we're already not maintaining it in a LOT of hospitals. That's why newbies have to be shipped in from elsewhere that don't know what they're getting into yet.
 

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That's the vast majority of nurses eventually. That's my point.

It's not a moral judgement. Every woman in my family is a nurse. I spent the vast majority of my working life in the medical field too. I have nothing against them. This is a practical issue. As a practical matter, we are not going to be able to maintain staffing in medical facilities as this pandemic continues. Hell, we're already not maintaining it in a LOT of hospitals. That's why newbies have to be shipped in from elsewhere that don't know what they're getting into.
Then what is your solution? In the article I posted, the nurses they interviewed said that it was a war zone in these Covid 19 units and most will experience PTSD at some point. How do we keep our seasoned professionals working? How can we support them in their jobs by addressing the situations where people may be dying on their shifts not solely because of the virus, but because the staff just couldn't provide adequate care?

Edited to add: the featured nurses in my area who are flying to help out in NYC are very experienced and are in no way newbies. They aren't needed here YET.
 

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Grevcon 10
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Discussion Starter #13
Just had a telephone appt with my primary care doc at the VA, and she told me they have pulled the nurses out of the clinic (not sure if just mine or all over) and reassigned them to the hospital.

They have COVID floors at the VA hospital and staff are required to do 3 month rotations.

Some have already resigned in lieu of doing it. That's healthcare staff, not restricted to RNs.

On another note, she said the VA has known about the virus since January and was getting plans in place even then.
They're planning to do the same here. All the clinic nurses are going to be put back to work on the non-COVID floors. Every nurse with floor experience will be sent to the COVID floors. My wife (nurse in administration) was given an ultimatum. Either she gives up her nurses to go work COVID, or they send COVID to her nurses (getting rid of COVID/Non-COVID floor designations). No one with floor experience is allowed to sit it out. A lot of those nurses only stayed because they were working on floors that were low on the list to get COVID patients. Some of them got transfers specifically to avoid it.
 

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Grevcon 10
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Discussion Starter #14
Then what is your solution? In the article I posted, the nurses they interviewed said that it was a war zone in these Covid 19 units and most will experience PTSD at some point. How do we keep our seasoned professionals working? How can we support them in their jobs by addressing the situations where people may be dying on their shifts not solely because of the virus, but because the staff just couldn't provide adequate care?
This is a survivalist board. Not a nursing management workshop. We're not here to solve management issues at hospitals. That's already being worked on elsewhere and causes me enough headaches due to incompetent high level administrators. We're here to anticipate crises, prepare for, monitor, adapt to, and overcome the crises. And a lack of properly staffed hospitals due to staff either getting sick or having enough and refusing is a crisis.

People expecting hospitals to keep the virus contained and to be there when they get sick/injured need to be aware that the option may not be available and work to change their dependency on medical staff.
 

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This is a survivalist board. . . . We're here to anticipate crises, prepare for, monitor, adapt to, and overcome the crises. And a lack of properly staffed hospitals due to staff either getting sick or having enough and refusing is a crisis.

People expecting hospitals to keep the virus contained and to be there when they get sick/injured, need to be aware that the option may not be available and work to change their dependency on medical staff.
That's why I am asking-shouldn't our "prepare for" mindset include prevention options? Seeing what may be ahead and trying to avert the situation? Idaho is behind the Covid curve-we are just now seeing diagnosed cases in our counties with very few deaths. My question remains-how do we support these experienced professionals and keep them at work? Maybe some of these professionals on this site could add insight.
 

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Look folks. A lot of this goes back to certain events pre and during our previous man-boy prez.

Many of the hospitals in the US were taken over by Private Equity and other for profit orgs. A lot of this was DIRECTLY due to the ACA.

https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/private-equity-sees-ripe-opportunity-in-healthcare-this-year/548831/

The end result was that ALOT of hospitals and grouped healthcare (hospitals under onw umbrilla) went to private equity.
The last few paragraphs of the article tells it all:

M&A began to accelerate after the Affordable Care Act, as many hospitals aligned themselves with physician groups, looking for greater reach into a market. But private equity firms "provide an attractive alternative to the traditional hospital-physician alignment models," according to a recent report from the Investment Funds team at the law firm BakerHostetler.
Private equity investors are increasingly seeking deals in areas that are highly fragmented or areas that still operate in silos and are undercapitalized,
Ben Isgur, health research institute leader at PwC, told Healthcare Dive. Fragmented areas provide an opportunity for private equity firms to come in and align a number of practices on the same platform, which increases size and scale to improve leverage in negotiations with payers.
M&A for the uninitiated is Mergers and Acquisitions.

Translation: They saw opportunity to buy, merger and downsize to "capitalize what was Undercapitalized." Ergo: make a buck on what they saw was a failing model of profit.

The healthcare system was DELIBERATLY overloaded with work and then sold off to private equity to make a buck! The same exact formula of debt and fragmentation used to kill off Sears, Kmart, Borders Books, Payless, etc. To make a buck! Period!

So the seeds sowed in 2009 with Man-boy death non care (AKA the ACA) are being reaped right now!
 

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Grevcon 10
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Discussion Starter #17
That's why I am asking-shouldn't our "prepare for" mindset include prevention options? Seeing what may be ahead and trying to avert the situation? Idaho is behind the Covid curve-we are just now seeing diagnosed cases in our counties with very few deaths. My question remains-how do we support these experienced professionals and keep them at work? Maybe some of these professionals on this site could add insight.
You'll need to make decisions at the top administrative level. CEO/COO/CFO/CNO/CMO. You don't have the authority to fix the problems and many of the people who do are incredibly unqualified and incompetent at their jobs. There's no hope short of firing and replacing them, which you also don't have the authority to do.

We're just along for the ride on this problem. It's like trying to stop a freight train while you're standing on the tracks. I'm not sure we even want to try to get hospital staff to keep working under the current circumstances.
 

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We're just along for the ride on this problem. It's like trying to stop a freight train while you're standing on the tracks. I'm not sure we even want to try to get hospital staff to keep working under the current circumstances.
I heard/read "No one would ever expect a fireman to run into a burning building in their underpants and swim goggles."

That is exactly what doctors, nurses, etc. are expected to do right now. No one wanted to tie up the money to have surplus PPE on hand and cycle through it. It's much less expensive to guilt, shame, and threaten healthcare workers into incredibly reckless situations.
 

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can't order someone into an unsafe situation because you don't have staff or PPE. To prevent this where I work I've forked out of my pocket about a grand for 3M 1/2 face respirators, P100 filters and face shields for my staff because one, I don't want them sick, and two those a the top are being inconsiderate *******s since the lack of PPE doesn't affect them directly.
 

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detroit-hospital-nurses-refuse-to-work-without-more-help-ordered-to-leave

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So instead of just trying and doing 'the best they could' - They refused to work.

They should be fired and get a mark on their record in my opinion.
 
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