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· What would Mal do
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5,635 Posts
and it really is fear mongering... I may not understand...but my current thinking on this is that even if they don't raise the debt cieling...it doesn't mean we don't have the money to pay our credit bill...ie...we don't "default"

our debt payment
SS
military budget
Medicare/caid

and some other programs will still have enough revenue to cover it.

might mean Michelle and the girls will have to postpone some more vacation time, Acorn and Family planning and the ARts council and thousands of other bloodsuckers will have to be turned off for a bit...the overweight gals the sit at the parking ticket booths and charge me to get into the park that my taxes have already paid for...well they might have to take a few days off and maybe get some exercise...

bottom line...we aren't going to "default" but we sure might sweep the floor a bit.

will it cause some economic hardships?..absolutely..the market will respond, the entitled will cry and nash teeth....it's the price to be paid for the incredibly irresponsible spending that has been done this past 2 years.

but also realize that companies and the banks in particular have seen this coming and are hanging on to a lot of cash...they will be motivated to invest in really good deals when people are selling real estate, etc at a loss...we just might see some movement from other areas that can be a good thing.

bottom line.. i agree..the media are pulling a rodney king here and it's gonna cost us.
 

· American fearmaker
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14,290 Posts
The biggest problem for the media is that they have religiously followed the Messiah for 2 years now without a single thought that he might be wrong. Now he's led us, our nation and the media to a ledge that is crumbling because he won't listen to the experts. This ruin that faces the media is in 2 forms. The first is that they've been suckered in like no other time in history. They will be sorely made to look ignorant because of their belief in this socialist scum. The second problem is that the ledge that is failing is one based upon financial ruin. Various financial groups have set specific items out there that must be met to avoid a national financial collapse. Obama does NOT want to follow ANY of their suggestions at all. Obama really does make it apparent now that he wants our nation to massively fail. Their Messiah has proven himself to be a complete phony with no redeeming value of any kind. He has proven himself to be a false leader. Now the media has egg on its face and they can't extract themselves from the fiasco without seeming ignorant. They know that this upcoming collapse will ruin the very little trust that many of us used to have for the media forever. They are in a real mess with no hope of salvation at all.
 

· Prepared Gourmet
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2,964 Posts
They knew this was going to happen. They built in 'funding' for all their pet projects a long time back, into every bill (Obamacare being one of the largest) along the road since O took over. They have already pulled the funds and put them in back pockets.

All that is left that they really want to pay for is their salaries and I would cut those for every federal employee - EXCEPT the military - all congressional members and administration staff up to and including the President, to about 4 percent of what they are supposed to be according to their 'contracts' until they agree to cut back significantly NOW and dump whole departments, including Education and the EPA for starters. If whole departments have to close down as a result, so be it!

Debt payments and interest payments on the debt should have highest priority. Entitlements (hate that term but you know what I mean - SSI, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.) should have next dibs/priority for payment - but only from incoming funds - if there are none of those, they will have to be cut and reapportioned (but not cut out entirely - just lowered till we have more 'income', if that should ever happen).

We, the people, at least those of us paying attention, have not been 'had' per se - we could see what they were doing - but we have had to sit by helplessly since we not been given any tools, other than phone lines that are never answered and an election every few years, to do anything but watch this incredibly bad and devastating kabuki theatre being played out with our money and lives at the forefront, before us. :( Even the Tea Party reps we sent up there this last time have been either conned or paid off somehow - they caved for reasons that otherwise are beyond my ken right now. It stinks.

So, if we cannot depend on ANY rep to stand by their own (and our) principles, what makes anyone think there will even be a next election? Yes, there will be a collapse - a deliberately planned and invoked one. These people have had (at least) 60 years to plan all this and they are not going to lose now - we are!

PS - a 'collapse' is not meant as a synonym for 'default'. We don't have to default to undergo the experience of a 'collapse'. At the government level, we could continue to pay our national debt/interest (with newly minted, inflationary money if there is no real revenue) and yet the majority of people at the local level could be jobless and destitute, the stock market can crash, housing could collapse (oh wait .. a lot of that is already happening), etc.

PPS - Herd Sniper (in response to your post below mine - don't want to start a new post way below yours) - I agree and understand. I knew what you meant. I believe I just said the same thing in my own way (and many more words).
 

· American fearmaker
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14,290 Posts
Teslin, I am NOT talking about a default. I am talking about an overwhelming, complete and vicious collapse of our nation's finances. It is quite possible we could be looking a hyper-inflation if Obama fails to follow the reasoning of the financial experts of Standard and Poors and other groups. Right now those experts are on the sidelines jumping up and down with all sorts of flags, flares and signal lights but Obama and his cronies aren't paying attention because they don't want us to survive their collective anti-American efforts. For Obama's and his fellow Democrats' plan to come to fruition, America MUST collapse in its entire form.
 

· Limpin to safety.
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7,626 Posts
I hope the Tea Party Sticks to their guns no matter the out come as THAT is what we elected them for.
I hope the Republicans who once cheered for McCain (other then his heroic military service) Eat crow as he embarasses himself.
I hope the Republicans aren't able to steal the Tea party movement despite Rush Radio Efforts to claim our victories as his George Bush Loving own... It's called the patriot act guys. Written by Joe Bidden, Enacted by George Dumbass Bush. Rush needs to learn the word Moderation (in reguards to food) and consistency (in regards to political forum).
I hope the Democrats Realize Socialism isn't the same as helping the poor.
I hope the Liberals realize Obama adds 1 metric ton of Carbon Tax per ONE of his +400 trips using Air Force one, and Al Gore has a waiting air conditioned Limo Waiting for him after every speech.
I hope the Libertarians realize that we have to steal the Republican seats as we have been, and play the Two party system while we infest their Corporate bribed seats with Integrity and Constitution.
I hope the 30 year Incumbents meet nice retirements where the might learn humility and even perhaps shut the hell up,not offering solutions to problems their lack of Integrity created.


To sum it up, I hope someone who actually cares about America steps up and does what it takes to bring us back to a nation of freedom, responsibility, and pride.

I'm afraid only through a miracle from God can this country ever even hope to return to it's former glory. We simply live in a world of "do what feels good and to hell with the consequences", and self indulgence.
 

· Closed for the Season.
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15,938 Posts
I don't know about everybody else but for me I am tired of hearing that a downrating from S&P will raise the interest of peoples borrowing. Up until a few years ago the interest on most consumer loans was more than double it is right now. Last evening I watched the news whining about interest might go up a whole .5% if the debt limit was not raised, shocking! If that is all it would be I say lets stop borrowing as a nation.

However it must be really bad that if the Interest rates rise, the game is over. Heck the last truck I bought the interest rate on it was 12% back in 2000. That was considered pretty good. Now if borrowing is more than 5%, the world ends. Something is not right about the arguments being made for raising the debt ceiling.
 

· Mod Certified PITA!
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12,207 Posts
OK, let me make sure I've got this right. The media, most financial wonks, and a whole bunch of politicos - both R and D - are saying failure to raise the debt ceiling will cause this nation enormous harm and possibly even send us back into recession. The stock market is dropping. Foreign markets and commentators are uneasy and unsettled. The Chinese have stopped or at least slowed their purchase of U.S. debt. And yet many on this board and this thread - survivalists who claim to be alert to any danger or threat - are insisting there's nothing to see here, move along, it's just the usual dog and pony show, the government won't DARE fail us, everything will turn out all right, don't worry, be happy, trouble will miss us just like Katrina missed New Orleans and nothing will happen.

:eek:

Riiiiiiight.

I think I'll go and buy some more preps...
 

· Enjoy the loss of gravity
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629 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
OK, let me make sure I've got this right. The media, most financial wonks, and a whole bunch of politicos - both R and D - are saying failure to raise the debt ceiling will cause this nation enormous harm and possibly even send us back into recession. The stock market is dropping. Foreign markets and commentators are uneasy and unsettled. The Chinese have stopped or at least slowed their purchase of U.S. debt. And yet many on this board and this thread - survivalists who claim to be alert to any danger or threat - are insisting there's nothing to see here, move along, it's just the usual dog and pony show, the government won't DARE fail us, everything will turn out all right, don't worry, be happy, trouble will miss us just like Katrina missed New Orleans and nothing will happen.
:eek:

Riiiiiiight.
I think I'll go and buy some more preps...

Wow, a lot of assumptions going on here, I don't recall anyone stating "don't worry, be happy" or anything to that nature. As stated in the OP, I, like many others here are concerned about the massive size of our government bureaucracy.

Raising the debt ceiling without serious budget cuts will also drop our credit rating as stated by S&P.

"Send us back into a recession"??? Mocc, look at the latest GDP numbers,we never left a recession. Just sinking deeper...

But you are right on buying more preps.:thumb:
 

· Closed for the Season.
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15,938 Posts
Listening to one of the Congress critters (I have a hard time telling them apart) on the tube the other day, he mentioned that right now the assumption is that Government spending is going to rise 7.9% every year on average for the next 10 years. That if you simply froze spending at the budget for this year for the next 10, with its $1.3 trillion of deficit, that would amount to a $25 Trillion cut in the projected spending.

Our politicians are not cutting anything real! Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have any plan to reduce the present debt. All they are arguing on is how much more in debt we will be in 10 years. It is all a farce!

Frankly I see no way out that does not end in a financial collapse. Is there any way to make the math add up? Something is going to give.
 

· Bread Baker
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3,282 Posts
How does not raising the cap = default?

The governemnt (states and federal) take in money daily, that money needs to be utilized.
I think in simplest terms, and some one correct me if im wrong, but the .gov needs to raise the cap in order to buy more money, in order to pay its "bills".. Which seems entirely asinine too me.

Instead, if they do some serious slashing of programs, which would equal less payout, no more need to raise the cap.
 

· Registered
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5,603 Posts
I think in simplest terms, and some one correct me if im wrong, but the .gov needs to raise the cap in order to buy more money, in order to pay its "bills".. Which seems entirely asinine too me.

Instead, if they do some serious slashing of programs, which would equal less payout, no more need to raise the cap.
Yep, they have to borrow money to pay the interest on the debt.

I know if I tried that one with the banks they'd laugh me out of there.
 
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