Don’t some electric systems have a mechanical backup of some type?

Look for that option.

Also, the combos that arent a single dial, but three or four different wheels, makes it easier to not screw up.

The other option is the classic silly idea of doing the combo except for the last number, so one twist and you are in.

And....keys are pretty quick.

EMP is over emphasized. In the ‘60’s, everyone was afraid of the nukes, now everyone is afraid of the nuke triggered EMP. Quit worrying about media driven stupid stuff. Seriously...if they are setting off EMPs, they are sending nukes too, so the EMP might be the least of your problems...

And finally...there is no reason to have ANYTHING you need quickly, in a safe that doesn’t have quick access. “Quick reaction heirlooms”? Seriously? Is that like grandpas revolver, or what?

 

https://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/emp/

 

Dial locks have been around long enough to be perfected. Big plus is they are mechanical and don't require batteries. A good safe will set you back some change and a high end dial lock may be a special order item from the factory.

 

My little safe has a great system. mechanical dial plus a dimple key.

you can leave the dial set to open and just use the key to be fast and easy.
Not too many burglers can pick a dimple lock.

 

https://www.lockpickworld.com/blogs/news/the-easy-picking-of-dimple-locks

ETA: Just a reminder that nothing is truly safe.

 

yes, Bosnian Bill will make short work of a dimple lock.
But Bosnian Bill won't be breaking into my house.

 

Some safe manufacturers will install a mechanical lock in addition to a electronic lock. Either one will unlock the safe. I was told the extra lock was @$350.

 

I ordered mine with a dial lock from the factory, there was a minor fee associated with it, I believe it was around 75 bucks. Yet when you are dropping a couple of thou on a safe what's 75 bucks one way or the other. Good safes are expensive...

 

I have Medeco locks in my vending machines.

I would only do mechanical.

 

I have a mechanical lock on my gun safe. Its slow to open and i dont keep home pretection in it for this reason.

I doubt your heirlooms are home protection so a mechanical lock will be fine.

 

I have a mechanical lock and it only takes a few seconds to open. Have the lock set to a combination that is easy for you to remember. I can't imagine it taking several minutes to open unless you get nervous, soil yourself, and have to go get cleaned up.

 

Well - I am getting older

 

Have you considered a safety deposit box at a reputable institution? It will save you from the average B&E case but anyone determined to get into your safe can these days. A safe is a bit like a sore thumb for organized crime. If word gets out you have a safe, your chance of robbery will sky rocket. If they are incredibly valuable a safety deposit box may be the way to go as bank robberies of safety deposit boxes are fairly rare and it may cost you less over the long run.

Generally all you need to aim for is something that cannot be pried open as anyone who intends to cut it open with the right tools will succeed.

The key is "hide it. Cut a section of wall out or ceiling etc.. put it in a heating vent etc.. most causual thieves will not take down your heating vents. A false vent section that shoots out from your main vent but is protected from airflow will be much more protected than a safe. The cost of putting in a fake section of vent or putting it in your rafters in weather proofing will make it way safer aside from fire.

The only sure bet for fire protection is put it in a safety deposit box or inside a water proof container inside water underground such as a water storage tank that is buried on your property.

 

Have you considered a safety deposit box at a reputable institution? A safe is a bit like a sore thumb for organized crime. If word gets out you have a safe, your chance of robbery will sky rocket.

Like at a bank?

:thumb:

 

There may be a time when you will not have access to that safety deposit box. Anyone that blabs about their safe,or has it where it can be seen is an idiot.

 

Yeah well those times when you can't access a safety deposit box are probably the same time you shouldn't be dragging your family air looms out.

Banks will be some of the best protected areas in times of unrest. Far better security than the average household.

 

Go with mechanical and practice opening it. Electronics give out and when they do you're screwed..

 

Have you considered a safety deposit box at a reputable institution?

Until that SD Box is in the middle of a riot, or the bank burns to the ground, or it's 50 miles away and you need it *now*.

The key is "hide it. Cut a section of wall out or ceiling etc.. put it in a heating vent etc.. most causual thieves will not take down your heating vents. A false vent section that shoots out from your main vent but is protected from airflow will be much more protected than a safe. The cost of putting in a fake section of vent or putting it in your rafters in weather proofing will make it way safer aside from fire.

Years ago my dad did a remodel of their home (which it needed badly), and the built in bookshelf got a set of hinges and rollers, behind which sat his gun safe. The master bedroom closet had a back wall that was actually a taped & textured pair of pocket doors that held his TEOTWAWKI "kit" in a safe... never knew until after he passed it was there, as it looked like a regular back wall of a closet.

Even better - there was a utility riser (from the old oil heater) in our old house, the boards in back would lift out (looked like your average 20's T&G in the back of a display cabinet) and give you access to a hidden chamber no one would think to look at.

Opsec is the most important aspect, however - if anyone knows your hideyhole, then it's also a security hole. We all knew about his gun case in the bookshelf, but only my stepmom (obviously) knew about dad's TEOTW stash, but both had passed before the secret was out. We only got wise when we moved the rug in the closet and found the bright red pull tab attached to the fiberglass zip tape and wondered WTF... :



Practice practice, practice. Seriously - if you have a mechanical safe, practice opening it until you can (almost) do it blindfolded in 15 seconds 10 times in a row.

I have a mechanical lock and it only takes a few seconds to open. Have the lock set to a combination that is easy for you to remember. I can't imagine it taking several minutes to open unless you get nervous, soil yourself, and have to go get cleaned up.

And don't set it to something easy to guess - birthdays, Social Security Numbers, etc. If a bad guy is already in your place, and knows where your safe is hidden and what they're after, they probably already know a lot of that info as well, and that's what they'll try. Especially if they have time on their side... Use something totally random - and memorize it. And then practice, practice, practice until it's burned into your mind.

If it's something you'll want your heirs to know after you're dead (say you have jewelry or guns or whatever), put that in a rider to your will, and have your attorney hold it, sealed, until the will is read. Thats how we got dad's teotw safe opened - a set of numbers in his will, and "you'll figure out what this is for when you need it". Pretty tricky as had we not put 1 & 1 together, found the tab, pulled it, etc, it would have been unknown WTF he was talking about...

 

I have had both on safes, and I prefer mechanical. The only reason I have one now with a digital lock is because it was a real bargain. I really don't think it would be a big deal either way 99% of the time.

 

My need to store more family heirlooms in a safe is increasing. I've been looking at safes and I am struggling to weigh risks.



I would love an electronic lock for ease of access. However in the event of an EMP I would still like to have access to my heirlooms. According to one of the safe manufactures they have a lock which adheres to MIL-STD-4615. Which I don't know a ton about and honestly couldn't evaluate to know if it would most likely survive an EMP. Sounds good but can't know for sure.



Mechanical is the most prudent in the event of EMP. However in the event of a need for quick access I would be worried I would be sitting for 20-30 minutes as I screwed up the combination.



I currently have an option which offers no fire protection but does protect against theft. I could keep quick reaction heirlooms in the one that offers no fire protection and then put the rest in the mechanical lock.



What do you think? Priority is most likely theft protection. The EMP event is most likely a low level of probability. Theft & Fire are higher. But the EMP weighs on my mind.



Thx!



SF

Some of the (presumably cheaper)electronic safes can be opened in seconds with just a magnet.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mN90RTwXX5E

 

Mechanical dial. Not even a debate. Mechanical can be opened in 15 seconds or less. Just did mine. 12 seconds.

Read this thread: https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=908000

 

At night, in the dark, without your glasses?

 

Lets not kid ourselves, all home grade safes are a joke (including fort knox, sturdy, etc). I have a nice safe and could be in it in minutes with a drill and sawzall, angle grinder or plasma torch. You attack the sides, back, top or bottom and ignore the door. These safes keep honest people honest. However....

Although most here recommend mechanical locks, I will say that ALL mechanical locks can be opened by "specialists" in a very short time with very limited tools without damage to the safe. They could open it, remove content and close it with out you knowing it or any sign of damage. Depending on how often you check the contents, It could be a long time before you realize something is missing. And don't think that mechanical things don't fail, mechanical locks fail too.

If you go with a quality digital lock, It can not be opened with out the pass code or damage to the safe.

When you do want to open it, it takes less then 2 seconds to open (even in the dark), This is important if storing some self defense weapons in them. Don't be scared of the batteries, batteries are on the outside and last for years of use.

After serious research and advice from locksmiths, I chose a good electronic lock.

 

I literally just linked to another current thread about a person with a 'good electronic lock' who is locked out of his safe, and unanimous advice against electronic locks.

As for burglary, while possibly true about accessing "any" residential safe/security container quickly with a torch or specialized saws and equipment, or safe-cracking, consider the reality of it. Not realistic.

First, most people don't have that equipment or the knowhow or the time.

Secondly, there is some possibly lethal danger in using cutting or torching tools on safes like mine that contain gunpowder. It becomes a 1000 pound bomb. And torching/cutting can destroy contents making the attack futile. I'd suggest you actually learn about residential safes like Sturdy, which offers a stainless anti-torching layer.

Third, the valuable contents of the average $2000 safe in the average middle class neighborhood is likely not worth the risks (death, prison) of most people with the skills and time to get into proper residential safes. These professionals are interested in low-risk and high-reward heists. Not the equivalent of a high-risk low-yield liquor store holdup.

 

Everyone has an opinion, I could find you dozens of links with people locked out of electronic and dozens of people locked out of mechanical. I can find you links with dozens of people who like electronic and dozens who like mechanical. All are opinions.

Fact is, all of these safes are more vulnerable to attacking the sides, top or bottom then the door.

You should look into Plasma, plasma will cut any conductive materiel out there, I use plasma to cut stainless all the time. You can buy a portable plasma torch kit relatively inexpensively that works off 110v and would cut into most safes in seconds. With minimal risk to contents (your fire rating material would protect contents when cutting the outer layer). Most safes use (if any) a thin inner metal layer that you could cut through easily with a sawzall. No damage to contents.

I agree most Burglars are not going to carry around a plasma cutter, I am only giving information about the real security vulnerabilities of safes on the market.

As stated above. I prefer electronic. I assume you prefer mechanical.

Want to have a race to get in your safe? How about at night without lights?

JMHO

 

I have a Plasma, in fact the biggest that will run off 120V ( Miller 375). ,my safe walls are 5/16. You are not cutting through them in seconds. Bare steel a minute or more, but the sheetrock behind the stell is going to prevent efficient use of plasma. And only the top is accessible, 2 sides are against the wall, and the third is against another locked cabinet bolted to the floor.

If I wanted to break in the safe, I’d forget the sides, and go straight for the door- the steel is thicker, but the fire liner is 3” behind the door, so a torch or plasma is going to cut pretty much like plate. Not using my 120V plasma, on the door. While capable of 3/8” steel, it’s unsanely slow.

But I’m not worried about the risk of someone breaking into the house, bypassing the alarm, hooking up a 240 volt plasma, and the associated air compressor, and opening my safe.

BTW, I’ve never seen a lockout on a mechanical lock that didn’t involve loss of the combination ( I know they do happen.). I’ve seen multiple lockouts on electronic locks, mostly MASHamilton X07s, or consumer locks. Smaller sample size on the consumer locks, but I’ve seen one dead lock ( off brand)and another with a corroded battery pack ( S&G, which I was able to repair until they got a replacement bezel.)

Funny story- I was in Alaska needingto go in a secure room. An E3 comes over to dial in the combo. After a few tries he’s frustrated, and says her verified the combo before coming over. I asked him if it’s a MAS Hamilton x-07. He acts really surprised ( it’s the only lock in America I know the model number of). A decade ago, DOD replaced every X-07 on every SCIF and COMSEC container due to their failure rate. Civilian agencies quickly followed suit ( or in some cases were required to). Some enterprising guy in Alaska decided not to throw out the old locks, but to use them to upgrade the old and slow mechanical locks in other applications that weren’t regulated by NAVFEC. The young folks hadn’t been around when everyone found what a disaster they were. We purchased a huge number of large dead blow hammers to whack the doors to get the locks open ( if offen worked) before there was an approved replacement. So whatever you do, if you find one on eBay, don’t put it on your gun safe.

As to EMP, there is no creditable risk to the standard safe lock. The size and spindle hole limit the amount of energy. If EMP were a risk, you would probally fry it from static electricity if sitting on a carpeted floor. We’ve have a bunch of the S&G consumer locks on consumer safes at remote sites that are lightning magnets ( ie 350’ tower). Never lost one as far as I know,

 

I forgot to mention one more thing, With an electronic lock, I can change the combination at anytime in a mater of a minute. So if I was opening the safe and felt the combination was compromised by someone watching I could change it then.

Here is a video you may find interesting from John Dean from Deane safes comparing the security of mechanical locks to electronic locks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=181&v=O1Jk3esLy2I

 

I thought the video was misleading on a number of points.
1) not everyone wears glasses or needs glasses
2) you can get safes with group 1 mechanical locks to compare to his “high grade” electronic lock.
3)You can mount an inexpensive ($15) infrared light over your dial lock that just requires a quick touch to light up the dial. I do not have to turn on the room lights to open my dial lock.
4) You can change the combo on a mechanical yourself if you choose to do so. I changed my S&G combo right after delivery. You just need the right key, have instructions and realize it’s not a forgiving problem if you screw up, but it can be corrected.
5) no one uses a dial lock designed during the civil war on their modern gun safe. Cars were invented during the late 1800s’ but they are vastly superior today.
6) when I’m home I can beat the time to open a electronic lock every time. I keep my EDC accessible. I realize this is not everyone’s choice for numerous reasons but it works for me.
7) He really over exaggerated the time to open the dial safe to the point of misleading for the majority of people. Plus one can pre-dial leaving just one number to set before opening cutting the time a great deal.

My next safe will have mech and elect because it’s worth the $350 to me.
The attached picture is a Fort Knox I’m looking at that conflicts with statements in above thread regarding construction. Check out the specs on what Fort Knox can provide. Like most companies they have a full lineup depending on your needs and pocketbook.
No safe is impregnable. I need a safe to defeat my defined level of threat that I want to protect against. I’m more worried about teenagers, drug addicted people and low level thief’s and thugs. I also want a safe where the quality level is proportional to the value of the contents.
I’m not against electronic locks and like some of the advantages but for my needs I prefer a mechanical unless I can have both.

 

My big Browning safe came with a Sargeant & Greenleaf mechanical. Works every time without fail for the last 20 years. To see the numbers I bought a battery operated light made for safes which magnetically attaches above the tumbler and casts a red light perfect for my eyes. EMP? Dunno if we'll ever see one but power going out due to other reasons - why yes.

P.S. - bolt that sucker hard to the floor - cement preferred. Doesn't matter what combo you get - electric or manual - tipped over is easier to get into.

 

I am a Locksmith and Safe Tech (15 years).

In all of the previous posts on threads I can agree with a few opinions but argue with most people on most points.

Most importantly, you need your safe to open when you go to open it. A mechanical dial is the most reliable. Yes they do fail, but I can tell you first hand that I have to open many dozens (it might even be 100 or more) of failed electronic locks for every one mechanical lock failure.

I have my tricks for both but many times whatever is wrong with a mechanical lock can usually be overcome if you understand the lock, how it works, and can compensate for the problem.

I have a few tricks to get the electronic ones open one last time before I have to drill but I can tell you from experience that I make more money and go on more calls opening failed electronic safe locks than any other category of safe work.
Two most recent safe jobs:
12/19/18 failed electronic lock at nationwide sporting goods store (safe is brand new) here in Missoula, MT
12/29/18 failed electronic lock at nationwide fast food chain (safe is just under one year old) 45 miles south in Hamilton, MT

I cannot recall the last time I had to open a FAILED mechanical lock (I know I did NOT in 2018). More often than not if a mechanical lock safe does not open, what is perceived to be a lock failure is more often than not another component of the safe causing the problem (If your dial operates normally and stops when it usually stops to retract the bolt after your combination has been entered then the lock is likely working fine. The problem is usually a fired external relocker followed by a problem with the bolt work/handle, followed by the fireboard or old concrete fireproofing falling into the boltworks and jamming it.

Honestly, I don't average a failed electronic lock job every ten days, but I probably average one to four jobs a month with an electronic safe lock that will not open. Sometimes many more, sometimes none.

The only time I usually have to open an electronic lock safe because of a lost combination is when someone dies. If you saw how fast most of the electronic locks can be opened with a small computer designed to reprogram, diagnose, identify, etc., them it would make your head spin. The computer is about $3000. It takes between 1 and 4 minutes usually.
On my best day, I can't manipulate a mechanical that fast (not even close).

There are manipulation proof mechanical locks. I service them at local federal buildings. They are better than basic mechanical locks, but have more moving parts, and therefore have more that can go wrong....but I would own one of those long before I would any electronic lock.

If speed of opening, accessibility in the dark, etc. are your main concerns then keep all of your goodies in a decent gun safe with a mechanical lock and keep your home defense pistol in a Titan Gun Vault. They are versatile and are modular with multiple mounting options. The lock mechanism is the same mechanical one used at many government facilities and almost every airport. They are well built and will last a lifetime when used for this purpose and not used 100's of times a day like they are at the airports. In the end have a plan B for everything and for goodness sake don't put all of your eggs in one basket.
Look over their website and watch the video

Link to Titan Gun Vault:
https://www.titanvault.com/60-titan-gun-safe-pistol-vault.html

In the end...I LOVE ELECTRONIC SAFE LOCKS...THEY PROVIDE ME STEADY, RELIABLE, GUARANTEED INCOME..............BUT I WOULD NEVER PERSONALLY RELY SOLELY ON ONE.

This is just my opinion and experience as someone who works on locks and safes every day. I am happy to share my opinion but do what makes you happy, meets your needs and expectations, spend your money as you see fit, and I hope you are as happy with your decisions as you can be.

 

I literally just linked to another current thread about a person with a 'good electronic lock' who is locked out of his safe, and unanimous advice against electronic locks.

Here's a good link:
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/5926-the-first-thing-we-do-let-s-kill-all-the-lawyers

 

Well if your worried by the notion your safe will be compromised, while you are away then this might be just the ticket.


https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...8/12/jeremy-s/gear-review-simtek-duo-wireless-security-sensor-production-model/

 

I have a mechanical combination safe, I didn't buy the mechanical safe because I'm worried about an EMP I've heard too many horror stories about electronic keypad safes.