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Discussion Starter #1
i am on a serious budget and would most likely have to sell a couple of guns to get this (ones im not needing). My friend has a Savage bolt action in .223 that i would also like to get and it strikes me as a great compromise for a main SHTF rifle. it is accurate out to my farthest range, which is about 150 - 200 yards. the ammo is light and common and cheap as well as accurate. i know something in a .30 cal would pack more of a serious punch, but due to health problems with knees and back i couldnt pack as much as with the .223.

i know that with an AR you can put alot of rounds out fast, but you also eat up ammo faster. would a bolt action in .223 be enough to keep me & my family safe if i train to do my part? i will NOT be planning to get into huge fire-fights, and will ghost around as much as possible. i just want the ability to take someone out or seriously discourage them from coming closer. thank you very much. ----Eric
 

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Here's my safety Sir
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I would still consider the AR. In 5.56/.223, with a 20" barrel, 1:8 twist, using 69-75gr ammo, and with a scope, it's pretty easy to keep MOA out to 200 yards.
 

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Remember The Alamo
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Everybody thinks an AR 223 is the Holy Grail of rifle's will it's not, it's a overblown 22.

Get you a rifle that shoots 308 (7.62x51) it has long range great stopping power ammo is cheaper. Ammo is not that heavy.
It's the prefered sniper round in Iraq & afganistan

Jst my experiance 65' 67'
 

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Discussion Starter #4
agree, but...

I would still consider the AR. In 5.56/.223, with a 20" barrel, 1:8 twist, using 69-75gr ammo, and with a scope, it's pretty easy to keep MOA out to 200 yards.
thing is, i have some problems with the AR:

- cost is very prohibitive for the initial purchase.

- i am not mechanically inclined and the AR seems complicated.

- the AR has more parts and more parts equal easier break-down. would need to have alot of parts in-case of breakdown, thereby raising the costs of this firearm.

The Savage is fairly inexpensive and looks well built. i think i can get it for just under $400, then find ammo that works well in it, then stock up on ammo and only a couple of parts that can wear out.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
.308 is a great caliber

Everybody thinks an AR 223 is the Holy Grail of rifle's will it's not, it's a overblown 22.

Get you a rifle that shoots 308 (7.62x51) it has long range great stopping power ammo is cheaper. Ammo is not that heavy.
It's the prefered sniper round in Iraq & afganistan

Jst my experiance 65' 67'
i have an old , .308 western auto bolt that i use for deer with GREAT effect. however, i am really impressed with my friend's .223 bolt. i can shoot and do follow-ups faster with the .223. also, as i have joint issues with shoulder, the .223 is something i can shoot more/practice morewith.

to repeat, i really appreciate all your help everyone!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
sweet!!!

Might consider a Saiga in 223, if you can find them they've been going for $370. Its a quality AK (simple and tough) with hunting rifle ergonomics, and can be had with a 20.5" barrel. You can scope it and sling it, paint it if you like. Most of the time a 5rd mag ... and then keep a few hi-caps around for the bad day.

sweet!! i like that! is it complicated to break down /fix?
 

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Remember The Alamo
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i have an old , .308 western auto bolt that i use for deer with GREAT effect. however, i am really impressed with my friend's .223 bolt. i can shoot and do follow-ups faster with the .223. also, as i have joint issues with shoulder, the .223 is something i can shoot more/practice morewith.

to repeat, i really appreciate all your help everyone!
Understood
 

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Psalm 23:4
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I think a bolty would be fine but the Saiga is a good suggestion too. Its an AK... simple durable and reliable. Wont be as accurate but it will get the job done.
 

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Remember The Alamo
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Might consider a Saiga in 223, if you can find them they've been going for $370. Its a quality AK (simple and tough) with hunting rifle ergonomics, and can be had with a 20.5" barrel. You can scope it and sling it, paint it if you like. Most of the time a 5rd mag ... and then keep a few hi-caps around for the bad day.

Saiga is a good 223 had one, I just like the bigger bang
 

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sweet!! i like that! is it complicated to break down /fix?
On the extremely rare instance that you find you need to break it down or fix something, you will find it simple enough for a Somali 8 year old. I'd just leave it as is, treat it like a rental, and keep the bore free - I don't think you'll be disappointed.

And just in case you rethink the 223, it also comes in 5.45x39, 7.62.39, 7.62x51 (308), .410, 20 and 12 gauge.
 

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Mad Trapper
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Another option would be a savage 308. Then add a chamber adapter to shoot 762x39....you could have full power of the 308 on demand and shoot x39 at the range or smaller game.
 

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If you didnt live in Colorado (at least thats what your location is listed as if I read it correctly) where bears might be a potential issue I would say yeah the .223 in a bolt action should suffice. If bears arent and wont be a problem then yeah the .223 should do you fine enough. If thats a negative then I would seriously consider a gun in 7.62x39. A SKS can still be had at fairly reasonable prices and for a little more and AK but then that would kinda encourage the spray and pray mentality. CZ-USA makes a great little bolt action in this caliber that has a great reputation. There is also the Savage and the Ruger bolt actions in this caliber as well although they might come in a bit more expensive. If you can deal witha break action single shot then there is always the Rossi single shot and possibly even the handi-rifle. Just something to thing about.
 

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i know that with an AR you can put alot of rounds out fast, but you also eat up ammo faster. would a bolt action in .223 be enough to keep me & my family safe if i train to do my part? i will NOT be planning to get into huge fire-fights, and will ghost around as much as possible. i just want the ability to take someone out or seriously discourage them from coming closer. thank you very much. ----Eric
A bolt action .223 is a horrible idea for a defensive weapon for a variety of reasons.

- low firepower
- slow reload
- most will not have iron sights
- most will be set up for bench or varmint shooting (meaning a fast 1:12 twist rate) which will severely limit the ammunition choices.

If you are comfortable with these shortcomings than I will not tell you that you are wrong but, I cannot recommend in good conscience recommend that you get an inferior defensive weapon when better ones are currently available. While you may not be looking for trouble, it may find you and when it does you are going to want to have the best defensive weapon that you can get.

thing is, i have some problems with the AR:

- cost is very prohibitive for the initial purchase.

- i am not mechanically inclined and the AR seems complicated.

- the AR has more parts and more parts equal easier break-down. would need to have alot of parts in-case of breakdown, thereby raising the costs of this firearm.

The Savage is fairly inexpensive and looks well built. i think i can get it for just under $400, then find ammo that works well in it, then stock up on ammo and only a couple of parts that can wear out.
Contrary to your opinion, most autoloaders are incredibly simple, including the AR-15. More moving parts does not mean that it will break or that it is more likely to break than something else that has less parts. A prime example would be the FN FAL which has more parts than any other battle rifle yet has been proven around the world. This is where quality comes into play. Don't get me wrong savage makes great guns and all, but in SHTF situation I would be much more inclined to use something that is more or less battle proven and more importantly truly suitable for self defense (such as the AR-15) rather than something that is neither (such as a bolt action sporter).

I must say too, your position puzzles me on several accounts.

- You are worried about the initial investment bieng too high but most preppers will tell you that they will easily spend more than the cost of thier primary weapon on ammunition, accessories, and practice within a year or less.

- You want something lightweight which probably means you intend to pack light; which probably means you won't have a lot of ammo. In this case then why worry about spare parts? Particularly when a good AR-15 will fire many thousands of rounds without the need to spare parts.

I will recommend that you consider the following weapons considering they may be used to save your life one day...

- SKS
- AK clone
- used Mini-14
- used AR-15

And if weight is a serious concern than you should look at the SU-16.
 

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PaPaKAPture
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The AR is great. The ability to put multiple rounds downrange can not be touched by any bolt action.

.223/5.56 is more than enough stopping power, after all it's all about shot placement.

The AR is simple to break down and clean.
 

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Your move Sparky...
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Keep the firearms you already own and invest in more training. Based on your original post, it doesn't take a bolt action .223 to do what you want.
 

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Adventurer
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might want to look into the cz 527 carbine

cz makes some real quality rifles that are wicked accurate and reasonably priced you can pick this up new for about $600
comes in either 5.56 or 7.62x39 mag fed bolt action
http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-527-carbine/

 
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