Survivalist Forum banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Rush Chairman
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Saw an AK referred to as an assault rifle and a FAL referred to as a main battle rifle on another thread.

I was wondering.

What is the difference?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,533 Posts
Heres the way I see it .......................

Assault rifle . A term coined by the Brady bunch to scare the sheep .

Main Battle Rifle . A Riflemans Rifle , capable of hitting man sized targets at 500 yards . A rifle of 30 cal capable of putting down said target . IE: M14 , FAL , HK91 ..................etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
258 Posts
An assualt rifle usually is describing a weapon that has large capacity and of carbine or slightly larger size, such as M16/AR15,AK,SKS,Galil,VZ58,HK93,etc.

Battle rifles are usually a bit larger in size and chambered in .30 cal or similiar, such as HK91/G3,FAL,Tokarev,M14, etc.

They are pretty general statements, means different things to different people.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
Original usage from WWII era- the rifles that fired full size cartridges, such as 30-06, 303 Brit, 8mm Mauser were used in "Battle Rifles".
Pistol cartridges in full auto weapons were "Sub machineguns" or "machine pistols".
The Germans and then Russians developed new intermediate cartridges for semi and full auto weapons, and the were called
"assault guns".
In the post war years, the U.S. military took to using the term "Assault Rifle" for fully automatic capable weapons, in intermediate calibers such as 7.62x39 and .223.
Then the anti gun hoplophobes saw a "scary" term, and applied to pretty near any rifle of semi auto capability and even a quasi military appearance, and still try to milk the term.
For the above reasons some of us old fogeys prefer the term "self -loading" rifle instead of "semi-automatic" rifle.
YMMV
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,722 Posts
Original usage from WWII era- the rifles that fired full size cartridges, such as 30-06, 303 Brit, 8mm Mauser were used in "Battle Rifles".
Pistol cartridges in full auto weapons were "Sub machineguns" or "machine pistols".
The Germans and then Russians developed new intermediate cartridges for semi and full auto weapons, and the were called
"assault guns".
In the post war years, the U.S. military took to using the term "Assault Rifle" for fully automatic capable weapons, in intermediate calibers such as 7.62x39 and .223.
Then the anti gun hoplophobes saw a "scary" term, and applied to pretty near any rifle of semi auto capability and even a quasi military appearance, and still try to milk the term.
For the above reasons some of us old fogeys prefer the term "self -loading" rifle instead of "semi-automatic" rifle.
YMMV

^ Bingo.

An Assault rifle is a FULLY AUTOMATIC intermediate round.
(Corrupted by law's and gungrabers to include the semi versions of those guns)

A Main battle rifle is a Full powered rifle round, that may or may not be FA (like some M14's and FAL's)

Basically it comes down to the cartrage and tactics behind it's use.


HK91, FAL, M1, M14, AR10 = MBR's


HK93, FNC, AR15, Mini 14 = Assault Rifles
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Assault Rifles fire an intermediate powered cartridge such as the .223 / 5.56 NATO, 5.45x39mm, and 7.62x39mm. These cartridges were designed to be lighter so that a soldier could carry more rounds, and to have lighter recoil so that a soldier could control a shoulder fired rifle capable of fully automatic fire. They are designed to have an effective range of up to 300 meters.

Battle Rifles fire a full powered cartridge such as the .308 / 7.62 NATO, 303, .30-06, and 7.62x54R. These cartridges were originally designed for bolt action rifles, and had an effective range of 500-800 meters.

There are good reasons why military forces began adopting the lighter powered assault rifle cartridges, but mostly they were based on supporting fully automatic rifles, and modern warfare strategy where soldiers traveled in armored divisions and rarely needed to engage enemy soldiers beyond 300 meters with small arms. But clearly these reasons do not apply to your average survivalist who is more likely to be operating alone or in small groups, without tanks, and from a defensive, rather than an offensive position. For this the full powered battle rifle is still the best choice because it allows the rifleman to use distance as an ally by engaging threats before they can get close enough to engage him.
 

·
Certifiable
Joined
·
723 Posts
^ Bingo.

HK93, FNC, AR15, Mini 14 = Assault Rifles
Please note, wrong again. These weapons are not assualt rifles. To be an assualt rifle it must have select fire capability. If we can educate people to this term we can have them telling the politicians to stuff their "assualt rifle" bans because there are very few civilian assualt rifles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34,722 Posts
Please note, wrong again. These weapons are not assualt rifles. To be an assualt rifle it must have select fire capability. If we can educate people to this term we can have them telling the politicians to stuff their "assualt rifle" bans because there are very few civilian assualt rifles.
Please note, you seemed to have missed this part of my post in your quote:
^ Bingo.

An Assault rifle is a FULLY AUTOMATIC intermediate round.
(Corrupted by law's and gungrabers to include the semi versions of those guns)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
A Battle Rifle is what is now basically called a Designed Marksman Rifle, or DMR; larger caliber, more accurate at longer ranges; but less apt at room/building clearing...
 

·
American fearmaker
Joined
·
14,245 Posts
The term assault rifle came to full public attention after a Senate committee headed by Teddy "Fat Teddy" Kennedy used it. Fat Teddy got the idea from the anti-gunners who provided the geek who testified (lied flat out) about the term before the committee. The term assault rifle had been around since the middle of WW2. Truth is that most Americans do NOT own any true assault rifles, assualt pistols or assault shotguns. The anti-gunners took to using the assualt phrase more and more in their silly, desparate bid to revoke legal ownership of any and all firearms. At one point I even saw where the word assault had been tagged on to a pen used for writing. Imagine that. An assault pen! Most of us actually own and use SURs or Sport Utility Rifles. Assault rifles are selective fire devices generally owned and issued by a government. SURs are own by civilian operators who use them for hunting, sporting purposes like rifle competitions, for personal protection and for home defense. What the anti-gunners don't want the American public to understand is that our citizens have a legitimate need or uses for SURs on a daily basis. If our nation did not have SURs, we would or could very quickly end up in a mess in short order. The anti-gunners have tried to pretend that guns are bad and that they have no uses other than to kill innocent people. Trouble is that our food supplies are sometimes threatened to the point that people like farmers and legal hunters keep it safe by culling wild game which endangers the food supply. So, I own SURs and no assault anything.
 

·
Weed 'em and reap
Joined
·
30,801 Posts
Original usage from WWII era- the rifles that fired full size cartridges, such as 30-06, 303 Brit, 8mm Mauser were used in "Battle Rifles".
Pistol cartridges in full auto weapons were "Sub machineguns" or "machine pistols".
The Germans and then Russians developed new intermediate cartridges for semi and full auto weapons, and the were called
"assault guns".
In the post war years, the U.S. military took to using the term "Assault Rifle" for fully automatic capable weapons, in intermediate calibers such as 7.62x39 and .223.
Then the anti gun hoplophobes saw a "scary" term, and applied to pretty near any rifle of semi auto capability and even a quasi military appearance, and still try to milk the term.
For the above reasons some of us old fogeys prefer the term "self -loading" rifle instead of "semi-automatic" rifle.
YMMV
The terms were, originally, indicative of purpose, not of technical details. "Form follows function" as they say. The term "assault rifle" intended to convey the function of assaulting a position with tactical and logistic support. Ranges were shorter than field battle, but the situation demanded more punch than a submachine gun firing pistol rounds. They were originally designed by the Germans and Russians for storming locations, while affording the user the freedom of movement of light pack loading via close logistical support.

The term was used to differentiate them from the "battle rifle" concept, which was the term applied to rifles intended for protracted use in the field over large swathes of terrain, in order to engage the enemy at traditional rifle range and with full size rifle rounds.
 

·
No longer a prepper
Joined
·
3,221 Posts
Heres the way I see it .......................

Assault rifle . A term coined by the Brady bunch to scare the sheep .

Main Battle Rifle . A Riflemans Rifle , capable of hitting man sized targets at 500 yards . A rifle of 30 cal capable of putting down said target . IE: M14 , FAL , HK91 ..................etc.
This is the definition I use.

It is why I will never refer to any rifle I own as an "assault rifle".

My E4 is my MBR.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,450 Posts
Main Battle rifle is the rifle is use when I'm going to a main battle.

Assault rifle is the rifle I use when I'm assaulting.

:)
 

·
Food Storage Solutions
Joined
·
1,029 Posts
You are not going to get an assault rifle unless you have thousands of dollars. An assault rifle has the ability to switch from automatic to semi-automatic fire otherwise knows as select fire. What 99% of people have are straight up semi-automatic rifles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,117 Posts
If Kennedy or any other politician coined it why had the military been describing it as an assault rifle for many years previously to distinguish it from a MBR? Kennedy didn't have the firearm acumen to know the difference between an assault rifle and a blowgun—which is a significant part of the problem!

Same thing as calling an M16/M4 or an AK a machine gun, they are not...Automatic fire weapons do not make a machine gun which has to be rifle calibre, belt/drum/mag fed, bi/tripod mounted and crew served for infantry--armour and aero divisions have slightly different parameters.

Which is why the M1928A1 Thompson was a sub [calibre] machine gun as it fired pistol not rifle rounds and the M1918 BAR was considered a light machine gun and later the concept was for the SAW Squad Automatic Weapon...The BAR, during WW2, was a two man unit with an ammo carrier/loader hence being one part of the light designation--weight being the other.

Is a civilian AK/AR an assault rifle, yes in description but not in function as it does not have select or only automatic fire...But, how do you distinguish it...Does a LEO coming onto a firefight and sees someone carrying (not firing) an AK assume that it is a civilian version or the military version when he calls for backup…If the carrier is trained he can get off one shot with a light tap to the trigger in full auto mode so even then the LEO wouldn’t know.

If the talking heads would distinguish it, upon certainty, as a civilian version it would go a long way to alleviating the anxiety over them.
 

·
Super Moderator and Walking Methane Refinery
Joined
·
67,463 Posts
This is the definition I use.

It is why I will never refer to any rifle I own as an "assault rifle".

My E4 is my MBR.
You're overlooking the .30 caliber part. Though that should read "full powered cartridge" as there are true MBRs in calibers other than .30, such as 8mm Mauser and such. Note also that it doesn't apply to carbines. Hence the word "rifle".
 

·
It is what it is
Joined
·
793 Posts
The gun grabbers are going to look for black rifles, high capacity magazines, scopes, pistol grips, folding/telescoping stocks. They consider all of that to be the components of an "assault rifle".

All of you gun fetishists (yes, I'm one too), should acquire, build up and test fire those custom add-ons to your weapons. Then take them all off and cache them somewhere near your BOL.

Store your firewarms with the factory non-descript wooden stocks, 5 round mags and no scopes, flash suppressors, bipod's etc. When they see the gun in your closet or car during a 911 call or traffic stop, or come around to inspect or confiscate during a natural disaster they will just think it is a plinker or varmint gun.

You only need a boring utilitarian 10/22 and .32/.38 DA revolver for home defense anyway.

Remember the DC Snipers? They identified that the weapon used was a Bushmaster AR-15 from the ballistics. Guess what they did? They rounded up every owner of a Bushmaster in the DC/MD/VA area and subjected them to days of harsh interrogations. Luckily (even though it is a morbid thing) they were all released after several days of ongoing attacks by the real Snipers while the innocent gun owners were in custody.

They were subject to arrest, interrogation and likely confiscation of their weapons for no other reason than that they owned that model gun. Not because of evidence, witnesses, forensics anything else.

Keep a low profile, de-mod your weapons, hide and cache anything you don't want confiscated or implicating you in some legal stuff.
 

·
Super Moderator and Walking Methane Refinery
Joined
·
67,463 Posts
The real difference is that MBR is a term specific to a class of rifles. It's a reverent term and one that should be respected for the sake of those who originally coined it. If we go misusing and abusing it, it's meaning becomes blurred and lost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
The gun grabbers are going to look for black rifles, high capacity magazines, scopes, pistol grips, folding/telescoping stocks. They consider all of that to be the components of an "assault rifle".

All of you gun fetishists (yes, I'm one too), should acquire, build up and test fire those custom add-ons to your weapons. Then take them all off and cache them somewhere near your BOL.

Store your firewarms with the factory non-descript wooden stocks, 5 round mags and no scopes, flash suppressors, bipod's etc. When they see the gun in your closet or car during a 911 call or traffic stop, or come around to inspect or confiscate during a natural disaster they will just think it is a plinker or varmint gun.

Keep a low profile, de-mod your weapons, hide and cache anything you don't want confiscated or implicating you in some legal stuff.
Brad makes a lot of sense.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top