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G43. If for no other reason due to your ability to "top off" a partially expended magazine.

Yes, I own both.
I understand your point and in truth have zero experience with the G43 so it might just be a fine rifle. What makes me curious is how many of them were in service in the average infantry squad? It seems like the Germans were catching on to Russian infantry squad tactics adopting similar weapons vs the German thought process of bolt action K98's supplemented by two machine guns and a Schmeiser MP40 or the like.

I still firmly believe that the Garand even with it's faults was one of the finest battle rifles of it's time and still has it's place today.
 

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"Garand Safe Ammo" really is just an old wives tale. It's been tested over and over by different individuals that you can run just about any commercial ammo in a Garand with no negative effects. Those guys that claim to bend oprods typically have no idea what they are talking about but just want a story to tell....
How many years of actual work experience have you in mechanical engineering, ammunition and small arms design, testing, manufacture and failure analysis?

Commercial hunting ammunition which is loaded with bullets heavier than 150 grains is normally loaded with a slower-burning propellant similar to IMR4350, W760 or RL19 in order to attain the desired velocity within pressure limits. These slower-burning powders shift the time/pressure curve forward and increase muzzle exit pressure, which also corresponds to the gas port pressure on the Garand. Excessive port pressure which is not mitigated by use of a ported gas cylinder plug, operates the rifle more vigorously than necessary and will eventually cause bent op-rods and other broken parts. This is a fact which was studied, measured and well proven by the US Army during the 1950s when WC852 powder was first used in loading APM2 ammunition. APM2 lots assembled with WC852 powder were then designated only for linked pack and not for clipped pack.

Most commercial 150-grain hunting ammunition is loaded with powders similar to IMR4064, RL15 or Varget and can be used in the Garand without issues.
 

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I understand your point and in truth have zero experience with the G43 so it might just be a fine rifle. What makes me curious is how many of them were in service in the average infantry squad? It seems like the Germans were catching on to Russian infantry squad tactics adopting similar weapons vs the German thought process of bolt action K98's supplemented by two machine guns and a Schmeiser MP40 or the like.

I still firmly believe that the Garand even with it's faults was one of the finest battle rifles of it's time and still has it's place today.
Total production exceeded 400k. 1/2 mil + if you count G41's also.
 

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What makes me curious is how many of them were in service in the average infantry squad?
Towards the end of WWII, an Army 12-man squad had an MTOE 11 x M1 Garands plus 1 x BAR.

In reality, M1 Carbines, Thompson SMGs, M1911A1s, privately owned handguns, and occasional enemy weapons were also added/substituted.

https://www.battleorder.org/us-army-rifle-co-1945

Army 1945 Rifle Squad (12 Enlisted each)
1× Squad Leader, Staff Sergeant (OR-6), armed with 1 M1 Rifle
1× Assistant Squad Leader, Sergeant (OR-5), armed with 1 M1 Rifle and M7 grenade launcher
1× Automatic Rifleman, Corporal (OR-4), armed with 1 M1918A2 Browning automatic rifle
1× Assistant Automatic Rifleman, Private (OR-1) to Technician 4th Grade (OR-5), armed with 1 M1 Rifle
1× Ammo Bearer, Private (OR-1) to Technician 4th Grade (OR-5), armed with 1 M1 Rifle
2× Rifle Grenadiers, Private (OR-1) to Technician 4th Grade (OR-5), armed with 1 M1 Rifle and M7 grenade launcher each
5× Riflemen, Private (OR-1) to Technician 4th Grade (OR-5), armed with 1 M1 Rifle each
----------------------------

In 1944, a 13-man USMC rifle squad had an assigned MTOE of 7 x M1 Garands, 3 x BARs, & 3 x M1 Carbines. Ad hoc substitution/addition of Thompson SMGs, M1911A1s, etc.

https://www.battleorder.org/usmc-rifle-co-1944

1944 USMC Rifle Squad (13 Enlisted each)
1× Squad Leader, Sergeant (OR-5), armed with 1 M1 Carbine

3× Fire Teams of:
1× Fire Team Leader, Corporal (OR-4), armed with 1 M1 Rifle
1× Automatic Rifleman, Private (OR-1), armed with 1 M1918A2 Browning Automatic Rifle
1× Assistant Automatic Rifleman, Private (OR-1), armed with 1 M1 Carbine
1× Rifleman, Private (OR-1) to Technician 4th Grade (OR-5), armed with 1 M1 Rifle

In reality, it was rare for any Infantry Squad in combat to function at full strength. This due primarily to casualties and a shallow pipeline of replacements. So a lot less men, fire teams, and guns in actual practice. Just like in any war.
 
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How many years of actual work experience have you in mechanical engineering, ammunition and small arms design, testing, manufacture and failure analysis?

Commercial hunting ammunition which is loaded with bullets heavier than 150 grains is normally loaded with a slower-burning propellant similar to IMR4350, W760 or RL19 in order to attain the desired velocity within pressure limits. These slower-burning powders shift the time/pressure curve forward and increase muzzle exit pressure, which also corresponds to the gas port pressure on the Garand. Excessive port pressure which is not mitigated by use of a ported gas cylinder plug, operates the rifle more vigorously than necessary and will eventually cause bent op-rods and other broken parts. This is a fact which was studied, measured and well proven by the US Army during the 1950s when WC852 powder was first used in loading APM2 ammunition. APM2 lots assembled with WC852 powder were then designated only for linked pack and not for clipped pack.

Most commercial 150-grain hunting ammunition is loaded with powders similar to IMR4064, RL15 or Varget and can be used in the Garand without issues.
The M72 National Match round is a 173 grain bullet. This can be easily duplicated using a Sierra 175.

The Creedmoor ammo that was once issued at the Garand and Springfield Matches is based on the 168 grain Amax. All of the above shoot just fine in the M1 rifle using medium burning powders including IMR / H4895, IMR / H4064, Varget, Reloder 15, etc.
 

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it's not just a simple matter of bullet weight it's one of port pressure - weight and burn rate and probably other stuff I'm not smart enough to figure out.

Garands are durable and can take quite a bit of abuse - right up to the point they can't

The M72 National Match round is a 173 grain bullet. This can be easily duplicated using a Sierra 175.

The Creedmoor ammo that was once issued at the Garand and Springfield Matches is based on the 168 grain Amax. All of the above shoot just fine in the M1 rifle using medium burning powders including IMR / H4895, IMR / H4064, Varget, Reloder 15, etc.
 

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it's not just a simple matter of bullet weight it's one of port pressure - weight and burn rate and probably other stuff I'm not smart enough to figure out.

Garands are durable and can take quite a bit of abuse - right up to the point they can't
And this is the kind of thing that happens, when things go south with them....



that, hearing loss/life long crickets in one ear, and a totaled gun.
 

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Slam fire/out of battery. Gun held togeter for the most part, although it was trashed.

Bolt was driven into the rear of ther reciever, blowing the back end off and taking a big hunk of stock with it.
 

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it's not just a simple matter of bullet weight it's one of port pressure - weight and burn rate and probably other stuff I'm not smart enough to figure out.

Garands are durable and can take quite a bit of abuse - right up to the point they can't
I know all of that and them some. Tell me something I don't know. Fact of the matter is, there is a reason why there are different loads / bullet weights for the M1 platform and all center around medium burn rate powders. Not slower powers like H414, which, by the way, can be used if you choose to go with an adjustable gas plug.

I also shoot competitively still with an M1. Sierra 175s for my 500 / 600 yard loads. And I still use H4895 for it.

It's the people who shoot 220 grain bullets with H414 and similar type powders and no adjustable gas plug who run into issues.
 

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The SVT-40 may not match the Garand totally, but only because they didn't care about their peasant soldiers enough to bother arming all of them with a semi-auto. Soldiers were easier to come by than supplies.

They were cheap and opted for the stamped PPS eventually. That was their WWII AK.

Had they cared as much for their soldiers as the US, there woud be 20 million surplus SVTs instead of bolt Mosins.
 

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G43. If for no other reason due to your ability to "top off" a partially expended magazine.

Yes, I own both.
Another potential better WWII semi auto was the Ljungman AG42 (from Sweden) - although the Swedes stayed neutral.....so didn't see action....but a really good gun anyway.

10 round removable box mag
Can be loaded from the same 5 round stripper clips as the Swede Mausers or single rounds
Direct Impingement gas system (one of the first to use that)
Fires the absolutely fantastic 6.5x55 round (with the 140gn BT round good out well beyond 800 yards)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatgevär_m/42
 

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The SVT-40 may not match the Garand totally, but only because they didn't care about their peasant soldiers enough to bother arming all of them with a semi-auto. Soldiers were easier to come by than supplies.
The SVT-40 was a significant improvement over the SVT-38.
 

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The Garand is pretty much my last choice. I’ll take one of the AR15’s or AR10, VZ-58 or the neat little AR180.
I own one for the history and it’s neat. I hand load for it too, but I have no use for the cartridge, weight, antiquated magazine and low capacity in any kind of combat operation or survival.
The 5.56/6.8 SPC have put lots of bad guys and game on ground.
 

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Nope. Got some stiches and a new gun from the DCM out of it. And it was literally a "new", unissued M1, when most of what the DCM was giving out back then were pretty rough.

While guns coming apart is fairly uncommon, it does happen enough that there are a couple caught on video on youtube. I think the slamfire thing is more prevalent that most know though. If you get "doubles", and you know you werent, or normally dont milk the trigger, best pay attention to your brass.

Some will tell you it cant possibly happen due to the guns design, but it still does.

For a very short period of time, Springfield Armory (Inc.) came out with their version of the M1 back in the late 90's. They only made a few and werent around very long after one came apart catastrophically, and into small pieces, and Im thinking the boy shooting it might have got hurt too.

There was a good bit of buzz on the web about it and they had some pretty detailed pics of the gun posted around the web when it happened, but that and the pics all seemed to mysteriously dissappear shortly after, and you rarely hear anything of it. I always guessed there was a lawsuit involved and it was lawyers CYA'ing Springfields ass.
 

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I think it would make a perfect designated marksman/overwatch rifle...

Personally, i would not use it as a primary firearm, unless its all you got, then beware of the man with one gun..
 

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Discussion Starter #98
Got to thinking back, and it was the late '80's when I had last put a Garand into real "service", as a front line gun.
At the time, it served all purposes that the 870 riot gun didn't. From home defense to hunting. It was what I had, got it for half the cost of an AR back then, all I could afford.

For a short time in the intervening years I had considered moving to NYS, which didn't happen but the Garand was one of the guns considered for the move, to stay legal.

Talking with another friend a couple of months back, he was trying to find something that was Kali legal. The Garand was one of the options for him.

It certainly isn't ideal for "front line" service, capacity being considered, but after that, I could very easily grab one and go even today.
I definitely prefer the AR that weighs just over half as much, if I am wandering around or teaching a class. But the M1 does fill a niche for me, and at no real expense. Unlike any of the other options.
 

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Towards the end of WWII, an Army 12-man squad had an MTOE 11 x M1 Garands plus 1 x BAR.

In reality, M1 Carbines, Thompson SMGs, M1911A1s, privately owned handguns, and occasional enemy weapons were also added/substituted.

https://www.battleorder.org/us-army-rifle-co-1945



----------------------------

In 1944, a 13-man USMC rifle squad had an assigned MTOE of 7 x M1 Garands, 3 x BARs, & 3 x M1 Carbines. Ad hoc substitution/addition of Thompson SMGs, M1911A1s, etc.

https://www.battleorder.org/usmc-rifle-co-1944




In reality, it was rare for any Infantry Squad in combat to function at full strength. This due primarily to casualties and a shallow pipeline of replacements. So a lot less men, fire teams, and guns in actual practice. Just like in any war.
I was asking about the German rifle but thanks for taking the time to post the other information!
 
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