[Pinetreescent]

So I've been giving the Lyxn 12 a glow up after running a few 100 rounds through it. I haven't had any serious issues with it. It's been a fun gun. That being said it was time for some modifications.

List of modifications:

tapco g2 trigger modified, timbersmith stock, chaos titan 12 rail system, sgm shark brake, CSS gas puck, Magpul ak+ grip, promag 12rd drum, LPA italy sights and some cheap aluminum vfg I got at a gun show for $5.

To get this out there. If you want the chaos 12 rail system. The front sight needed to be modified to get it to fit. I.E. ground down. As I think the Saigas sight block was more narrow. Regardless I made it fit. A lot of work. But the pay off makes me super happy.

Another side note. I'm pretty sure this thing weighs more than a buick.:

Metal and wood:

 

[Tiha]

Appreciate hearing that. That in one of them I see pop up and keep passing because nobody seems to have good info on it.

You think it is better than the ar15 clone 12 gauge guns?

 

[Pinetreescent]

Appreciate hearing that. That in one of them I see pop up and keep passing because nobody seems to have good info on it.

You think it is better than the ar15 clone 12 gauge guns?

I have never handled one of the akdal mka1919 clones that have been popping up over the years. So I can't tell you much about them. I have read issues with panzerarms and others not functioning properly. But it's the internet. Take that as you may.

I always wanted a saiga but missed out on them years ago. The Lynx in my opinion is better built than the saiga and addressed the problems that saiga owners had. So basically what saiga should have released in the first place.
It's why I went Lynx and not the mka1919 style.

 

[Tiha]

Looked at the 1919 really close and it would probably work but couldn't find anyone saying anything good about it and it didn't fit me right.

Last week at the gun show was the first time I had seen the panzer and they were cheap like $350

I was tempted but the more I handled it and looked at it. The quality just didn't feel right. Didn't feel like I could depend on it or I would feel safe running 100 rounds through it. Weird I know, but like I tell my girls, you can't shoot accurately when you are scared to pull the trigger.

Haven't had a chance to get my hands on the Lynx yet but that is my front runner. Thank you.

 

[Tiha]

I bought a lynx 12 this weekend. $450. Was happy to find it. Seems like prices are going through the roof on them and they are disappearing.
After looking at all the current available Semi, magazine fed options I think this was the best choice.

Learned a bunch more about it. Yes they are a Saiga clone with some improvements. Outside the bolt carrier group it sounds like the parts interchange just fine.
There was one place I read where the guy made a good point. The chinese can make garbage and have no problems copying something and putting it out there but in a case like this, SDS imports had them built to their specifications.
It made a lot of sense to me because it seems so many people seem to love these things.

They didn't have any other magazines available. I want to get a drum eventually anyway. Not sure which one. I hear promag sucks, but they sure do make a bunch of them for every gun.
Also read to that anything over 20 rounds will often have feed problems because the weight of the shells trying to move around the drum.
I see mags for the Saiga, then on the same pages from the same supplier mags listed for the Saiga and Lynx and others. So is there different versions?
So still reading and looking.

Have you looked at the lock open mod? You have to slot the receiver. I am going to read on it more. I have milled plenty, not afraid of the work it takes. It would be nice if the bolt locked open, because changing mags right now is painfully slow.

At the range it was a blast to shoot. Me and my son put probably 200 rounds through it. Little bit of everything but mostly bird shot.
I reload bird shot at lower pressures because I have a lot of older, pre 50's shotguns I like to shoot. Running those rounds through this gun it ran just fine. Only time it failed to cycle properly is when my son was trying to hip fire it. Without being propped against your shoulder to help it cycle. I have read others make this claim as well.
Hotter loads would probably not have been a problem.

We shot come clays with it. Out of the box, it does great. But 20 yards is about all you get with #7 bird shot.
Pattern was much tighter than I expected. But then I have no idea how the thing is choked yet or anything.
#00 buck was much tighter than I expected as well.

I still have to learn the subtle differences. Seems like Molton, saiga, vepr, and dd12 are very similar.

You said yours weighs as much as a buick, so does it shoot better? Kick Less?
We thought it weighed a lot less with the 5 round magazine compared to 870s or 1100s. but then your weight is much more centered.
Watching a video of my son shooting he has a hard time keeping the barrel on target between rounds, even with the light loads it was kicking him around pretty good, I assume I am doing the same thing. Part of being a short barrel I suppose. Not sure I have ever rapid fired another shotgun with that short of a barrel.
Maybe a muzzle brake would help, but then will that hurt the cycling ability?
Also going to look into better grip configurations.

The butt pad also leaves little to be desired.

Anyway, I look forward to modding it. Blast to shoot. It is always fun putting lead down range. But blowing stuff up with a 12ga is way more entertaining.
Defense or for fun this is definitely the best money I spent in a long time.

 

[Arch Stanton]

I'm generally not a big fan of drums due to weight and the ease of changing regular mags. How do you like it and how much does the drum weigh when fully loaded?

 

[AK103K]

Until you get the mod done, if you do it, try this when reloading.

When the gun goes empty, slide your left hand to the mag, while turning the gun towards or on its side, ejection port down and pulling the grip of the gun into your midsection, or the butt into your thigh at the hip.

At the same time youre doing the above, the knife edge of your right hand goes to the charging handle and slides it back until it stops and holds it, with your fingers sticking straight down below the mag well.

Left hand either knocks the mag out or retains it and stows it, and then draws and loads the new mag into the gun. Your fingers hanging below the mag well help act as a guide as you go to insert the new mag. This way, youre also looking at the mag well as you insert the mag, as opposed to trying to "feel" it when the gun is vertical.

If you dont like using the knife edge of your hand on the charging handle, you can also just hook the charging handle with your trigger finger and pull it back as well if the knife-edge doesnt work for you.


Once the mag is in the gun, let go of the charging handle and the gun is loaded and ready to go.

Sounds a lot harder than it is, but its not, and after doing it a couple of times, and you start to get a hang of it, youll see how well it works.

Loading with the bolt back eliminates the struggling to get the mag to lock in with it closed, and it also loads the gun when you let go, instead of having to stroke the charging handle as a separate act.

One advantage to the AK system, with no BHO is, if you do the reload (tactical or empty) properly, the gun is "always" reloaded after the mag change.

 

[Tiha]

One advantage to the AK system, with no BHO is, if you do the reload (tactical or empty) properly, the gun is "always" reloaded after the mag change.

This is awesome, Thank you. Never thought of it that way. I am not familiar with the AK style let alone this thing.

Your description of mag change. I only have one mag until mailman comes, but that is kind of how I ended up doing it, turning the gun on its side, ejection port down. So cool, glad I am on the right track.

 

[Pinetreescent]

Drums for this platform are the way to go on a saiga or clone. As stick mags over 8rds are stupid long. Drums make for a more compact package. With drums you start with the drum then switch to a stick mag. To answer your question if its heavy. Yes. With the rail and full 12rd drum its about 12#. But that weight helps with recoil. Its been a fun project for sure. SDS just got a new shipment of them. If you are looking.

 

[ajole]

OP, that’s a good looking unit!:thumb:

Agree completely with AK103K, loading on an open bolt is the best way to go.

I have the Saiga, and it is very different from shooting other semi shotguns, a mag dump can become anti air defense if you aren’t serious about muzzle control, as it likes to climb.

That said, I simply don’t know why one would do a mag dump without aiming, which should give you the time to get the muzzle back where it belongs as you find the next target.

 

[Tiha]

OP, that’s a good looking unit!:thumb:

a mag dump can become anti air defense if you aren’t serious about muzzle control, as it likes to climb.

That said, I simply don’t know why one would do a mag dump without aiming, which should give you the time to get the muzzle back where it belongs as you find the next target.

That is why I was also wondering about a muzzle break and weight. If that helps.

But this was a good conversation we had recently with some friends. They of course think the whole idea is stupid but look at it this way.

Each #000 buck is 8 potentially lethal pellets. At least as lethal as a 9mm or 380.
So with every shot you are more accurate than rapid firing a 9mm 8 times.

Add that up over a 20 round mag and you have 160 potentially lethal pellets put down range with similar accuracy at 20+ yards.
Even if it takes 20 seconds or 30 seconds to dump it while reacquiring your target after each shot, so what.
Can't do that with a 9mm.

But I hope I never have to use it for something like that.

Not sure if it is true, but I have read that CSSPEC mags can be inserted on closed bolt?
I will probably get a couple mags from them anyway, I like the metal idea over the plastic. Will require some fitting though.

definitely getting a better mag release. They are only like $30 unless you want to move it where it can be done with your thumb. Those are like $90

If you want to spend the money there are mag drop mods where you change the whole mag well. Not sure that is for me.
I don't have time to mod it right now, maybe this winter, but looking forward to it.

 

[Pinetreescent]

I bought a lynx 12 this weekend. $450. Was happy to find it. Seems like prices are going through the roof on them and they are disappearing.
After looking at all the current available Semi, magazine fed options I think this was the best choice.

Learned a bunch more about it. Yes they are a Saiga clone with some improvements. Outside the bolt carrier group it sounds like the parts interchange just fine.
There was one place I read where the guy made a good point. The chinese can make garbage and have no problems copying something and putting it out there but in a case like this, SDS imports had them built to their specifications.
It made a lot of sense to me because it seems so many people seem to love these things.

They didn't have any other magazines available. I want to get a drum eventually anyway. Not sure which one. I hear promag sucks, but they sure do make a bunch of them for every gun.
Also read to that anything over 20 rounds will often have feed problems because the weight of the shells trying to move around the drum.
I see mags for the Saiga, then on the same pages from the same supplier mags listed for the Saiga and Lynx and others. So is there different versions?
So still reading and looking.

Have you looked at the lock open mod? You have to slot the receiver. I am going to read on it more. I have milled plenty, not afraid of the work it takes. It would be nice if the bolt locked open, because changing mags right now is painfully slow.

At the range it was a blast to shoot. Me and my son put probably 200 rounds through it. Little bit of everything but mostly bird shot.
I reload bird shot at lower pressures because I have a lot of older, pre 50's shotguns I like to shoot. Running those rounds through this gun it ran just fine. Only time it failed to cycle properly is when my son was trying to hip fire it. Without being propped against your shoulder to help it cycle. I have read others make this claim as well.
Hotter loads would probably not have been a problem.

We shot come clays with it. Out of the box, it does great. But 20 yards is about all you get with #7 bird shot.
Pattern was much tighter than I expected. But then I have no idea how the thing is choked yet or anything.
#00 buck was much tighter than I expected as well.

I still have to learn the subtle differences. Seems like Molton, saiga, vepr, and dd12 are very similar.

You said yours weighs as much as a buick, so does it shoot better? Kick Less?
We thought it weighed a lot less with the 5 round magazine compared to 870s or 1100s. but then your weight is much more centered.
Watching a video of my son shooting he has a hard time keeping the barrel on target between rounds, even with the light loads it was kicking him around pretty good, I assume I am doing the same thing. Part of being a short barrel I suppose. Not sure I have ever rapid fired another shotgun with that short of a barrel.
Maybe a muzzle brake would help, but then will that hurt the cycling ability?
Also going to look into better grip configurations.

The butt pad also leaves little to be desired.

Anyway, I look forward to modding it. Blast to shoot. It is always fun putting lead down range. But blowing stuff up with a 12ga is way more entertaining.
Defense or for fun this is definitely the best money I spent in a long time.

Sorry it's taken awhile to respond. But the chaos rail adds a pound or 2. Then the lpa sights, aluminum forward grip and wood stock add a few more. As for recoil. It does help a little. Since now the gun is a bit more leveled out with better weight distribution.

I've recently upgraded the El cheapo forward grip to a wbp polish aluminum grip. Also added an sgm full choke and upgraded the rear sight insert on the lpa to a bar sight (wider ghost ring). I need to go pattern it with the full choke to see how much tighter the pattern is over stock. I also upgraded the gas puck. But didn't see much of a performance boost.

I have seen lrbho. But to me not that big of a deal. It's an ak pattern gun. It's manual of arms.

Again. I need to take her out. Just haven't shot much since the ammo crisis hit. Only for fear of not replacing stock. It's getting better. So a range trip is in order for sure. Since now I need to pattern it with the new choke and sight in with new set up. Just in time for duck season.

And yes. All standard saiga mags work. I just got a 5rd izzy saiga mag from a local pawn shop for $20. I about pooped myself at the price of the magazine. Since replacement new izzy mags are much more than that.

Another update soon for sure.

 

[patdaly]

Last week at the gun show was the first time I had seen the panzer and they were cheap like $350

I was tempted but the more I handled it and looked at it. The quality just didn't feel right. Didn't feel like I could depend on it or I would feel safe running 100 rounds through it. Weird I know, but like I tell my girls, you can't shoot accurately when you are scared to pull the trigger.

The Panzer AR12 with the plastic receiver has had some spotty reviews, but I bought the AR12 Pro, and immediately fell head over heels in love with it. I immediately bought a second one just in case they quit making it. It is a bit heavier with the Aluminum receiver, but it is a tank, and you can run just about anything thru it, I mix high/low brass, targetloads with buck and slugs, and it just chunks them down. You definitely know when you are shooting low or high brass, but she cycles like a pro. I can have 5 empty hulls in the air at once without trying too hard.

This has been the most fun of ANY weapon I ever shot, right up to the Ma Deuce. Without fail, every single person who has done a mag dump with it giggles like a school girl.

 

[salvo]

Pinetreescent, good looking Lynx 12!
I have had a Saiga 12 for more than a decade. Back when I got it I converted it, added a ACE folding stock and a TAC-47 auto gas plug.
It has always ran great with my 20 rd drum, 10 & 5 rd mags. But the stock sights outright suck! Even though the rear sight is so low it is unusable, the front bead is dead on, so I have lived with it, but the sights take the fun out of it.
I love your Chaos rails and sights. I have recently been searching the web for that type of set up but have had no luck, seems like a lot of the old manufacturers have closed shop, or my Google fu is lacking, could you point me in the right direction? I appreciate any help.

 

[Pinetreescent]

Pinetreescent, good looking Lynx 12!
I have had a Saiga 12 for more than a decade. Back when I got it I converted it, added a ACE folding stock and a TAC-47 auto gas plug.
It has always ran great with my 20 rd drum, 10 & 5 rd mags. But the stock sights outright suck! Even though the rear sight is so low it is unusable, the front bead is dead on, so I have lived with it, but the sights take the fun out of it.
I love your Chaos rails and sights. I have recently been searching the web for that type of set up but have had no luck, seems like a lot of the old manufacturers have closed shop, or my Google fu is lacking, could you point me in the right direction? I appreciate any help.

Chaos isn't making anything anymore. It seems I may have gotten one of the last ones. You can check Carolina shooter supply. They have saiga stuff still. I bought an sgm choke from them a while back.

 

[salvo]

Thanks, not much out there…that’s a reasonable price.
I’ll keep looking 👍

 

[Tiha]

I ran into the same thing. Carolina has some cool stuff, but not cheap. Since this gun for me is just a toy I can't see spending that much on it. But then if I spent the money maybe I wouldn't look at it as a toy.
I really need to get a muzzle brake and see if that tames down the muzzle kick. Seems like it takes way too long to get back on target compared to like an 1100 rem.

 

[salvo]

Ya, after all these years, I haven’t tried a muzzle brake yet, either.
I really do not need a quad rail, other than a place to mount some flip up sights. Maybe just a taller rear sight and a bolt on the barrel, front sight…I’ll hopefully find something that will work better than that Little bead.

 

[Pinetreescent]

Unfortunately there isn't much that's "cheap" these days when it comes to firearms.

Have you tried adjusting gas settings per load to reduce recoil? I've had to play with mine a bit. But then again the chaos rail adds a lot of front weight.

Personally I didn't like the sights from the factory. Pretty much is non adjustable.
It's one of the reasons I wanted a full top rail. Better sights. I tried adjusting the factory rear and it fell out. And front sight was basically coated into place. These guns need better sights. A red dot is a good option as well.

Still haven't gone out to pattern it with the new choke. Holidays and all. But launching slugs is much nicer with the lpa sights. Way better than those factory sights.