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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In Louisiana, we don't have Constitutional Concealed Carry, but there is a Representative, Barry Ivey, that has proposed it for the last 3 years, the first two, through constitutional amendments and the last, through legislation.

Of course, for any bill, it must go through the criminal justice committee of our state. This is a group of representatives composed of equal parts Democrat and Republican, with an Independent. The first two years, the entire board voted against a constitutional amendment. This last year, in May, all but one Republican voted FOR it, but it was still less than a majority.

As usual, before the vote, people get to share their opinions and facts about the legislation. For 3C, people used the arguments that it doesn't effect anyone but law abiding citizens, such as the low income, who can't afford the license and all the fees that go along with it. Further, criminals don't care about the law, they'll conceal carry, regardless. All these arguments are 100% accurate and anyone that reads a newspaper, online article or isn't in a coma knows it.

On the other side of the argument, the star opinion came from a teacher who was shot in Lafayette, at the movie theater. Part of her testimony included something like this, '... and he applied for a concealed carry permit in Alabama, but was denied.' This is her justification for why we need concealed carry permits. She doesn't address the fact that, despite being denied a CC permit in Alabama, he still brought a concealed weapon into a movie theater, without a permit and shot 9 people; the denial of a CC permit did not stop him from carrying his firearm into the theater and opening fire. Among the other opponents were sheriff's and police associations, populated by Democrats and progressive leftists.

What's next? How did the states with 3C get their amendments/legislation passed? What should we be doing to get this moving? I know there is support among the population, but how to we get them motivated enough to do something about it?
 

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On the other side of the argument, the star opinion came from a teacher who was shot in Lafayette, at the movie theater. Part of her testimony included something like this, '... and he applied for a concealed carry permit in Alabama, but was denied.' This is her justification for why we need concealed carry permits. She doesn't address the fact that, despite being denied a CC permit in Alabama, he still brought a concealed weapon into a movie theater, without a permit and shot 9 people; the denial of a CC permit did not stop him from carrying his firearm into the theater and opening fire.
I was really puzzled why people couldn't make this connection even while making arguments that, in some cases, proved that gun control is ineffective.

One day it dawned on me, the people who believe gun control makes you safer have an idea in their heads of how crime happens: They think a normal person one day gets mad, and if he can find a gun he'll grab it and start shooting people. If he can't find a gun, his mood will pass, and he'll be back to being a normal person.

That isn't (mostly) how it works, but after a lot of consideration, I think that is what your typical gun control supporter pictures as the typical reason people get shot. (I think dedicated leftist intellectuals know perfectly well that their real goal is about disarming the public to allow the government to become more powerful, but that isn't how they sell it to the masses.)

As for police agencies, their politics vary enormously, but in many states, they tend to favor permit requirements because it brings their agency a lot of revenue. North Carolina sheriffs generally oppose Constitutional Carry (and even the elimination of the bizarre Pistol Purchase Permit) because those things are direct revenue sources for sheriffs' departments - and they add some nonsense about safety to make their argument sound less self-interested.
 

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We have the same problem here. Enough votes to pass something, but 1 or 2 Dem state senators from the cities that hold things up using committees, delays, and filibusters. They've slowly been replaced, or outnumbered by more 2A supporters, and we're getting so close to having legislation passed.

However, I think it may come down to bypassing the legislature completely and trying it through a consitutional ammendment. The state is already a constitutional open carry state.

There are extra hurdles to going the constitutional ammendment route because our state consitiution was purposefully made more difficult to modify then other states like CA. That way a city or two couldn't ram things down everyone's throat with 50.1% of the vote.
 

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As for police agencies, their politics vary enormously, but in many states, they tend to favor permit requirements because it brings their agency a lot of revenue. North Carolina sheriffs generally oppose Constitutional Carry (and even the elimination of the bizarre Pistol Purchase Permit) because those things are direct revenue sources for sheriffs' departments - and they add some nonsense about safety to make their argument sound less self-interested.
They have a handgun purchase permit system here and it cost $5 for a 2 year permit. It takes about 20 minutes. So I don't think they make money at it where I live.

The concealed carry permit process goes through the State Patrol. In small population states, I think they don't bring in enough revenue to make it worth keeping the systems in place. That's why constitutional concealed carry and gun laws are loosening through the middle of the country. The states can't make money off of it and the people know they don't have any affect on crime.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Two real-world problems:

1) Now that Louisiana is facing a "budget crisis" and the governor has removed overtime for govt' employees, it has been taking an average of 12-14 months to get a permit.

2) A friend of ours applied for the permit, two years ago. About 3 months after receiving it, she was sent a letter that it was on the verge of being revoked, because she had seen a psychologist, when she was 16, after someone in her family had died. She was told
she needed to get a written affidavit from this doctor, saying she is not a threat to anyone. Now, this was at least 30 years ago and the doctor is long dead, so she had to find a doctor, schedule an appointment, spend half the day talking to him, get him to fill out a form and pray the state didn't screw anything up, in the process. Let's just not let this scare us, too much, that the state somehow found records about her, from 30 years ago, in a sealed juvenile, medical record.

Meanwhile, the convicted, violent felon, thug on the street is conceal carrying, despite the law. He may get arrested, but not before he robs or shoots a couple people.

Yes, they might stop Bob, who is schizophrenic, from getting a state-sponsored permit, but they aren't going to actually stop him from conceal carrying, if he really wants to. Similar to what jknova said, the average gun control supporter believes that because Bob was denied a permit, that's the end of it, but it's not the end and all of this assumes that Bob has disqualified himself, in some way, by actually being treated for his condition.

In reality, the vast majority of the defensive uses for 3c will be against the guy trying to assault, rob, murder or rape and, although it's possible Bob will 3c, it doesn't change the fact that he's going to do it with or without the permission of the govt', anyway. The only difference that will be made is if you can adequately defend yourself against him, or not.
 

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My Hero Was Derion Albert
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One day it dawned on me, the people who believe gun control makes you safer have an idea in their heads of how crime happens: They think a normal person one day gets mad, and if he can find a gun he'll grab it and start shooting people. If he can't find a gun, his mood will pass, and he'll be back to being a normal person.
I have heard this very thing from a couple liberal anti gunners, "i would NEVER get a gun because one day I would get up mad at the world and start shooting everyone who was ****ing me off"
I was incredulous, I asked them if they seriously had this level of anger and low self control, And if they did then Yeah, its better that you don't carry a gun.
Maybe they thought that they were being funny, But I never in my most heated angry moments even had the thought cross my mind. To even think this way was so alien to my thought process
I was astounded these words even came out of their mouths.
I do believe there is a certain level of projection from anti gunners, They have no control over anger issues so no one has control.
They are incapable of reasonable thought, so no one is.
 

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I used to hear that all the time. "It's a good thing I don't have a gun..."

Some jurisdictions like the idea of being able to 'pull' someone's license the same way a police supervisor can take a cop's gun and shield.

They think that pulling the license shuts down the license holder's ability to do harm, because license holders are law abiding citizens and they would not do harm anyway, so....

What did I just say?

Never mind.
 

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1) Now that Louisiana is facing a "budget crisis" and the governor has removed overtime for govt' employees, it has been taking an average of 12-14 months to get a permit...

I live in Louisiana and submitted my application in late October, last year, and received my permit, effective, January 1st. A little over 60 days.

It is a craps shoot from what I understand. Some people say that "you have to file electronically if you want it done faster". Well, I did mine snail mail and got it quicker than some of the electronic filed guys.

I think it has to do with how well your background check goes. Just like an ATF4473 filed by Al Diehl vs one filed by Bill Smith. A heck of a lot more Bill Smiths than Al Diehls so,...
Also, some people I know, failed to report a past incident that they "forgot about". You forgot about being arrested???? Really?

Anyway, Constitutional Carry would be nice but, my Free Veterans Lifetime one will do for now.

Al
 

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I was really puzzled why people couldn't make this connection even while making arguments that, in some cases, proved that gun control is ineffective.

One day it dawned on me, the people who believe gun control makes you safer have an idea in their heads of how crime happens: They think a normal person one day gets mad, and if he can find a gun he'll grab it and start shooting people. If he can't find a gun, his mood will pass, and he'll be back to being a normal person.

.
That was the thinking behind California's 3 day wait rule back in the 80s.

People that get that ****ed off, that don't have a gun will usually use weapons of opportunity. A knife, a club, a chair, broken bottle etc
 

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That was the thinking behind California's 3 day wait rule back in the 80s.

People that get that ****ed off, that don't have a gun will usually use weapons of opportunity. A knife, a club, a chair, broken bottle etc
The 3 day wait on handguns came in before the 80's. It then became a 15 day wait on handguns, which eventually became a 10 day wait on handguns and long guns.
 

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The 3 day wait on handguns came in before the 80's. It then became a 15 day wait on handguns, which eventually became a 10 day wait on handguns and long guns.
I have read that before, but I cant say I remember anything but a 3 day wait in the 80s

Just read on 1 site that said the 3 day wait started in 55, and the 15 day in 75.

I don't recall any 15 day wait in California ever (up to 86 when I left for the Army).
 

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Weed 'em and reap
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I was really puzzled why people couldn't make this connection even while making arguments that, in some cases, proved that gun control is ineffective.

One day it dawned on me, the people who believe gun control makes you safer have an idea in their heads of how crime happens: They think a normal person one day gets mad, and if he can find a gun he'll grab it and start shooting people. If he can't find a gun, his mood will pass, and he'll be back to being a normal person.

That isn't (mostly) how it works, but after a lot of consideration, I think that is what your typical gun control supporter pictures as the typical reason people get shot. (I think dedicated leftist intellectuals know perfectly well that their real goal is about disarming the public to allow the government to become more powerful, but that isn't how they sell it to the masses.)

As for police agencies, their politics vary enormously, but in many states, they tend to favor permit requirements because it brings their agency a lot of revenue. North Carolina sheriffs generally oppose Constitutional Carry (and even the elimination of the bizarre Pistol Purchase Permit) because those things are direct revenue sources for sheriffs' departments - and they add some nonsense about safety to make their argument sound less self-interested.
This is liberalism in a nutshell. They lack impulse control, and could easily see themsesves grabbing a gun, if it were readily close at hand, and shooting someone over a trivial dispute, and so they project that aspect of themselves onto everyone. They think that criminals are just normal people who had a bad day.

When you really think about it, it should scare the bejeezus out of any rational person that fully half of the people in this country openly admit that they can't be trusted with a gun, lest they be unable to control themselves and kill people all willy-nilly. Liberalism truly is a mental disorder.
 
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