[skifast]

In many of the AK v AR threads, one argument presented revolves around long range accuracy.

I am interested in why people think long range accuracy is important? I understand that out west, hunting some game requires long shots. My question has more to do with defending ourselves against hostile people. Do you think sniping will be a necessary skill/capability? In any potential scenario, how would you be able to determine that a person 1/2 mile away is a threat?

 

[madcritter]

In many of the AK v AR threads, one argument presented revolves around long range accuracy.

I am interested in why people think long range accuracy is important? I understand that out west, hunting some game requires long shots. My question has more to do with defending ourselves against hostile people. Do you think sniping will be a necessary skill/capability? In any potential scenario, how would you be able to determine that a person 1/2 mile away is a threat?

The ability to reacccchh out and touch someone may or may not be a needed proficiency. But I would rather have it and not needed than well you know the rest. Obtaining a moderately long range weapon is not all that expensive. I have a Remington 700, 30/06 deer rifle I feel comfortable with out to 300 yards. Thats stretching the range I go to and the scope I have on it.

 

[Kregener]

The ability to shoot the other guy at 800 yards is worth its weight in gold. Especially if the other guy is carrying a firearm that cannot hope to hit you at the same distance unless he has lottery-winning-type luck.

 

[IsantiSam]

I'm not an expert by any means, but I thought .223 had fairly good range?

 

[Cannon Fodder]

The only problem in a survival situation would be accurately ID'ing a hostile at 800 yards. Is it a hostile, a friend, or just someone with a rifle who's lost? You don't get to ask those questions at 800 yards.

 

[skifast]

I think it makes sense to be prepared. Thus, I have a Weatherby Vanguard chambered in 7mm Rem Mag. and a 4-12 50mm scope.

However, my question is what scenario would I use it in. A guy a half a mile away carrying an AK is not a threat that justifies deadly force. Hell it may be me walking down the street with my evil black AK.

 

[skifast]

The terminal ballistics are not very good when you get out past 200-300 yards.

I'm not an expert by any means, but I thought .223 had fairly good range?

 

[WeakenedWarrior]

Having a rifle with an effective range out to 500-600 yards would be invaluable if you had to defend your home/shelter from an attack. This is the reason why most survival experts advocate the purchase of a battle rifle that fires a full-powered cartridge like .308, as opposed to an assault rifle that fires an intermediate cartridge. Imagine having to defend your home/shelter by yourself against an assault by an armed gang and how much of an advantage it would be to be able to eliminate those threats before they could get close enough to shoot back at you. Others have raised a good point that it does not make much sense to shoot at someone before you know they are a threat, but if you already know they are a threat you would be a fool to let them any closer to you then they already are.

I have yet to acquire a true battle rifle and I am starting to lose hope that I will before the Bolsheviks ban them again, but my hunting rifle is a bolt-action Remington 7mm Magnum that has more than enough reach to dispatch threats at long range, as long as there are not too many of them. I will have to hope my AK and AR will be sufficient for everything else.

 

[JR2980]

The terminal ballistics are not very good when you get out past 200-300 yards.

Tell that to a Marine

We had to qualify frequently with it and that involved shooting at 200, 300, and 500 yards with iron sights. Can be done, and can be done effectively. It just takes practice - like anything else.

If it can be done with iron sights, I bet it can be done better with the scopes that everyone seems to be throwing on them these days.

:thumb:

 

[skifast]

I have 2 1/2 acres and my house sits about 100 yards from the road. You would have to have a big piece of property to have to make 500 yard shots.

Having a rifle with an effective range out to 500-600 yards would be invaluable if you had to defend your home/shelter from an attack. This is the reason why most survival experts advocate the purchase of a battle rifle that fires a full-powered cartridge like .308, as opposed to an assault rifle that fires an intermediate cartridge. Imagine having to defend your home/shelter by yourself against an assault by an armed gang and how much of an advantage it would be to be able to eliminate those threats before they could get close enough to shoot back at you. Others have raised a good point that it does not make much sense to shoot at someone before you know they are a threat, but if you already know they are a threat you would be a fool to let them any closer to you then they already are.

I have yet to acquire a true battle rifle and I am starting to lose hope that I will before the Bolsheviks ban them again, but my hunting rifle is a bolt-action Remington 7mm Magnum that has more than enough reach to dispatch threats at long range, as long as there are not too many of them. I will have to hope my AK and AR will be sufficient for everything else.

 

[skifast]

Terminal ballistics meaning the damage the round does. Marine marksmanship is legendary and I respect my Marine friends.

Somewhere between 200 and 300 yards, the round velocity falls below 2700 fps. Above 2700 fps, the round fragments and tumbles and is lethal. Below 2700 fps, the round makes a little hole and doesn't have the lethal impact.

Tell that to a Marine

We had to qualify frequently with it and that involved shooting at 200, 300, and 500 yards with iron sights. Can be done, and can be done effectively. It just takes practice - like anything else.

If it can be done with iron sights, I bet it can be done better with the scopes that everyone seems to be throwing on them these days.

:thumb:

 

[LDRIDER]

I'll give you an example: If all out hell does break loose I and my family will abandon my house on one acre of land. We will head to my 80 acres (with hunting/fishing/survival cabin on it). We will post all our property that deadly force will be used on trespassers carrying weapons. As you are maybe aware tresspassing on private property with a weapon in Florida is a felony now. So I can shout for 300 yards and if the person does not drop his weapon when told then I will consider him hostile and he can kiss his butt good-by.

 

[skifast]

That is interesting. So in Florida, it is permissible to use deadly force against armed trespassers? Can you shoot poachers?

I'll give you an example: If all out hell does break loose I and my family will abandon my house on one acre of land. We will head to my 80 acres (with hunting/fishing/survival cabin on it). We will post all our property that deadly force will be used on trespassers carrying weapons. As you are maybe aware tresspassing on private property with a weapon in Florida is a felony now. So I can shout for 300 yards and if the person does not drop his weapon when told then I will consider him hostile and he can kiss his butt good-by.

 

[Rifleman336]

Why engage a KNOWN AND CLEARLY IDENTIFIED enemy at distace? For most of the worlds militaries favor lower powered assualt rifle over battle rifles and there training and tactics reflect it. If I have a bunch of ill train conscipts comming at me with AK-47's one should fight them at distance to keep them at a disadvantage. You always fight the enemies weaknesses, not their strengths.

And like wise on should try to have several several workable plans incase things don't go right. And that includes the enemy getting to close for comfort and have the means to defend yourself.


Rifleman 336

 

[WeakenedWarrior]

I have 2 1/2 acres and my house sits about 100 yards from the road. You would have to have a big piece of property to have to make 500 yard shots.

My family has 300 acres of rolling hills and bluffs, with 500 yard shot possibilities in almost every direction. If I had to defend that property against armed thugs I would want a rifle with as much reach as I could possibly get.

I have lived back east for a couple of years and I can understand how a high powered battle rifle might not be necessary, or even desirable in that kind of terrain. But out here in the west it would be worth its weight in gold in a survival situation.

 

[LDRIDER]

No you can not just shoot any tresspasser that has a weapon. It all depends on many different factors. First you have to honestly believe the person is intent on harming you. If he knows he is on private property and you direct him to drop his weapon or you will open fire and he keeps coming with the weapon you could probably shoot. But in the instance I previously mentioned I also said if all out hell broke loose in the country or world. You need to read the "castle law in florida. Some states do not support the property owner/individual as well as florida does.

 

[LDRIDER]

I fully agree!

 

[LDRIDER]

In reply to the comment by Rifleman 336 above. All military's of the world also have "snipers". The main purpose of a sniper is to make long distance kills. The reason for long distance kills should be self explanitory.

 

[Rifleman336]

In reply to the comment by Rifleman 336 above. All military's of the world also have "snipers". The main purpose of a sniper is to make long distance kills. The reason for long distance kills should be self explanitory.

Really, I didn't know that!!!! No what were taking here is to force an enemy into a differant battlefield condition than there equiped and trained to fight. Sniper team usally work alone, some times with other teams, but never enmass. What I am talking about is having the skill grandpa had in the military to shoot at extended distances with or without optics and hit ones target while being a RIFLEMAN working in corradenated infantry manuvers.

The sniper team in most instaces, once deployed are operating on their own with the only limitation outlined in the rules of egagement and mission specific order given to them before going to the field. They can meneuver with a force but it makes their job more difficult to try evade detection. For instace the Army has sniper teams in tank companies (as part of the infintry support) and they preform mostly overwatch functions. No long time hide and slow crawls here. Would you really want to crawl around on the ground while 70 ton tanks arerolling around!! SQASH!!!

What I'm getting at is directed fire like the marines advocate where there is a higher level of success if each and everyone of there rifleman practiced the basic markship priceples drilled and pounded in to their heads.

So can this be done buy a man with a bolt action.... for sure. Can a man do it with an "assault rifle" Yes if the rifle sytem is capably engaging a fight out side the EFFECTIVE range of the enemies rifle system and training.

Let me guess, LDRIDER if your a survivalist or a Militia type and can only afford a surplus bolt gun, you can't "PLAY".

IF the SHTF like some profess in the certain and specific secnarios all sorts of people are going to come out of the wood work with whatever they got that includes non-miltary standard rifles and calibers. Not every body will be able to pull an assault rifle out of their @ss. But they will be in the fight just the same.

Granted, I wouldn't send these people in to clear rooms either. So some flexablity is needed, if not, the moment the battle starts to become unfavorable then it's time to fall back or retreat and scatter into the coutry side to reform and fight another day.

Rifleman 336

 

[Maverick88]

Nobody knows what SHTF will look like. It is wise to prepare for the environment you live in or will be passing through. Long range shots are a posibility that you can not just dismiss as unnessisary.

I for one would rather never get into a close quarters fight. I want to get a battle rifle in .308 if I can because of this. A bolt gun will do, but will not do double duity very well.

Get what you can afford, but don't forget the food while you are at it (water is also benifitial to life). You can only shoot a gun if you are still alive.