it can be done but 95% of the people don't have the skills or resources

 

I agree.

Very few of us have the resources and the skills.


I got mine

 

Living off the land is FANTASY

Sad way of looking at things. After millions of years of living off the land and a brief period of modernizations we can no doubt learn once again to get back to the old ways.

 

Not with six billion competitors.

 

I agree with the overall sentiment of this post; however, I have to nitpick your opening argument. The life expectancy of hunter-gatherers and early horticulturists/agriculturists was primarily impacted by deaths at birth or in childhood. Had they reached puberty, they would have likely lived into the 50s, if not 60s. And that was without modern medical knowledge.

My anthropology studies have also shown to me that they also worked far less than we do today. Generally, a man would spend around 3.5-5 hours a day doing work related to horticulture. And any surplus they had would have went to waste, which means they worked more than they had to. Hunter-gatherers worked even less than that. Both enjoyed considerable amounts of leisure time.

 

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My personal studies into primitive man brought me to similar conclusions as you. Although, I really think that making it to old aged was more of a norm for them. They had none of the life shortening issues we deal with, and so long as they survived child birth, or tribal warfare they most likely lived as long as us, without any of the modern illnesses that cripple us in old age.

Think about it, they had plenty of leisure time, lots of pure organic foods, almost NO chronic stress and plenty of exercise. They were not exposed to crazy bosses, hectic schedules, toxic environments, poisons in thier food etc...

There are many primitive tribes today where the elders are still very active, alert and much healthier than modern man is at the same ages.In fact, I saw one on discovery years ago where a 70 year old tribes man was climbing huge trees, way up into the canopy to hunt monkeys. He did it in just a few seconds, but the young 20-30 something scientist had to use ratcheting equipment, mountain climbing gear, and 30 minutes to get to the same level.

I have seen old Kung Fu Masters who have not seen a real doctor in 30-40 years who are athletically superior to their 20 something students, and can just mop the floor with them.

They live naturally, spend lots of time out in nature (most do all thier training outside), eat mostly raw fresh veggies, and lean meats.

I think that whole short life span thing is a crock of pot ash, if you ask me. It just does not jive with what I have seen in real life.

 

Up until your last sentence you made it sound like we should all roll over and die.

I agree though, a large community with sound agricultural practices is the way to go.

 

I just lost my post I wrote but the idea was that I don't think it is that cut and dry. Quickly...

Can stangers expect to move to a rural area and be invisible. NOWAY. Can those who already live in seclussion continue if done correctly. HELL YES.

Will all game dissapear if people start hunting to survive. In some areas YES. In all areas, NO WAY. Many people will not try or know how.

Can people do it alone. Not many at all. I would say less than 1% of us. Cooperation and trade is needed at some level.

Is living of plants a joke? For most. My self included. That is if we are talking about wild plants. Can I grow enough food to last a winter, YES, then keep the seeds for the following season . Can I suppliment it with a moose or two or three deer. YES.

Is living of the land a fantasy. For most yes. For some NO!

 

Right now, it would be a fantasy as I still lack the hunting skills, and my foraging skills are in thier infancy. However, if I can meet my goals I could probably rough it in the next 18 months, and in 3-4 years of dedicated study and practice probably become very comfortable living off the land. This wouuld be especially so if i moved to a year round warm climate.

 

The people of the past lived on the knowledge acquired through many, many generations.

I would suggest reading 'Robinson Carouso' (hope I got that spelled right) His complaint which was common at the time was that it took so many hours labor just to fill his belly. In many native cultures it's the women who do most of the labor. You might also notice that they have very few possessions. Generally they live an uncomfortable vermin ridden life. The modern American spends less hours of their life acquiring food than any people in history.

I have been in the real estate business for many years and have watched people move to the country to live a simple self sufficient lifestyle. I've never seen it work. With all the modern advantages they are soon working at an outside job. The Amish have a very difficult time surviving. They also have to work at outside jobs. It is hard to go against the grain, it is much easier to work with the system.

 

Most people now a days think that possessions make them happy. With few possessions you're even more happy since you have fewer things to worry about.

Sure we spend less time working for food but the time we do spend working is to buy a car to go get food, to pay for the gas to get food, to pay the taxes on the car to get food, to pay the insurance on the car to get food and to do the same things with a house so the food can be prepped for a meal.

Actually the Amish do quite well living off the land. The reason they require outside jobs is to pay the vast amount of taxes levied on their land that our modern society requires even though they put few burdens on the infrastructure in porportion to the taxes levied.

In PA the property taxes are so high it's rediculous. That's why I didn't go home after the military. My brother inlaw pays $15,000/year for 2.5 acres near Easton. I pay $550 on 60 acres in VA. The locality I grew up in called it a school tax yet the Amish have their own schools that they build and operate themselves.

So yes they have a time living in our modern society but it's not for lack of food to live. They routinely produce a surplus and sell it to pay the taxes also. We could learn a lot from them.

 

Remember 'Green Acres'?

 

It is very humorous for country people to see city slickers move to the country and try to farm.

 

This wouuld be especially so if i moved to a year round warm climate.

I liked you post but was surprised by this sentence. Why?

Generally they live an uncomfortable vermin ridden life.

Gosh, I would like to see some sources about that. I think that is the misconseption that keeps us modern people in our foolish boxes.

[ The Amish have a very difficult time surviving. /QUOTE]

Man, another source please. I would think that if the Amish had a difficult time it would be from the forces from the outside world like taxes. Not because they do not have the skills.

 

I liked you post but was surprised by this sentence. Why?

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I hate cold, and warmer climates have more food for greater portions of the year. Costa Rica for instance has 70-80 degree temps year round. The geography is full of edible plants, and animals year round.

You could almost just live on the beach, and never go inside if you didn't mind getting wet from rain.

 

How do you think we got here?

If our ancestors didn't figure out how to live off the land, none of us would be here today. The reason most modern people can't live off the land is because they have separated themselves from the the Earth. The look at the wilderness as some challenge, instead of something to be embraced. Everything you need to live, not just survive, is already out there.

 

If our ancestors didn't figure out how to live off the land, none of us would be here today. The reason most modern people can't live off the land is because they have separated themselves from the the Earth. The look at the wilderness as some challenge, instead of something to be embraced. Everything you need to live, not just survive, is already out there.

Welcome to the boards! Good first post in my eyes. :thumb:

 

What we consider backwards cultures everywhere have trouble with vermin. Just do a little reading and you will see that.

I live near and deal with the Amish. They are no different than anyone else except they try to isolate themselves from the modern world and I don't blame them. I can assure you that they spend many more hours acquiring their food than I do and they have an abundance of slave labor-I mean kids. LOL

 

The Amish don't lead overtly difficult lives by nature of their own society.
It is OUR society and OUR governments intrusive oppression that creates much of their difficulties.
In fact for all their self imposed austerity they were historically more typically prosperous than their Gentile neighbors.

 

We have two distinct groups of people on this site (besides the politics and religious crowd). Those being the "survivalists" and those who practice "preparedness". We sometimes butt heads but nothing like the brawls in the other threads. Although I practice preparedness, I recognize the value of survivalist training because we face an unknown future and to rule anything out would be a mistake. IMO, the best practice would be a combination of both mentalities. One should not ignore the stockpiling of basic necessities in favor of living in a snowdrift eating moss. At the same time, one should not ignore basic wilderness survival thinking that their situation will never come to that and their supplies will last forever. To not practice some of both leaves you vulnerable. Murphy's law says that it will be the one thing that you do not prepare for will be the one thing that does you in. We have some time to learn and to put things into practice. We can learn from each other and increase each others odds. Being in a similar situation as Shootmor, as one ages the reality of what we are capabile of changes. I am preparing for an extended period of "change" and honing survival skills at every opportunity.

 

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I practice wilderness survival, not because i feel there may be a SHTF scenario, but because of a philosophical reason. I believe that most of the ills of modern man are becasue we have seperated ourselves fomr the natural life style we were originally evolved in, and lived for 170,000+ years.

I feel the closer I can get to an all natural state, the healthier, and happier I will be. So far this has proven to be true. The more I am outdoors, the happier, and healthier I am.

I do this more to get in touch with my inner Caveman, than any other reason.

If some sort of apocalypse occures, and my hobby, life style, and philosophical beliefs get me through it, then all the better.

I would do this even if we lived in a utopia.

 

Its by no means impossible. It can be done but does take a bit of training, most are just to lazy to learn.

 

That is a pretty defeatist attitude. If you have the knowledge you can certainly do more to help yourself. Meat is available in places where hunting is not a high priority. I can walk out on my porch and take out any of a half dozen in my front pasture, almost any morning of the year. I do not hunt on my property because I want those animals close if something happens and I cannot leave for awhile. There is also a pond behind my house, fed by a large creek. There are turtles, geese, wood ducks and fish in that pond. There are also muskrats, beaver, fox, coyote, weasels, squirrels, turkey, rabbit, skunk, chipmunks, bobcat, etc. All of these are edible. They may not be my first choice, but they are choices. When most people think of hunting, they think of deer, turkey, rabbits, etc. In survival situations, you think outside the box.

There are various wild edibles that can be eaten. Kudzu, which is more than readily available in many parts of the south, is virtually all edible and can be used to make everything from salads to flour to jelly. And that is just one item. It also grows 3+ feet per year. Great vitamin C can be had from some species of evergreen needles boiled into a tea (higher levels than citrus).

Many of the skills to live off of the land are lost to modern man, that does not mean that wilderness survival is not an option for some of us.

Some level of agriculture would be preferred for augmentation of my diet, but it too has it downside for some crops, such as corn, which utilizes many resources (water, ground nutrients & labor), more than I feel is the benefit of growing it. I can get more yield with peas and beans in that same space, with far less resources, and it is less conspicuous.

It is all about balance and the knowledge that you have, or are willing to learn.

 

No, plain and simple no. You have 300 million neighbors in the US and the majority of them are armed. Living off the land is the last of your worries. The prime is not being killed by them.

 

If our ancestors didn't figure out how to live off the land, none of us would be here today. The reason most modern people can't live off the land is because they have separated themselves from the the Earth. The look at the wilderness as some challenge, instead of something to be embraced. Everything you need to live, not just survive, is already out there.

Excellent post. Welcome to the board.

 

No, sir. Living off the land is not a fantasy, it is a nightmare. I dreamed it, now I'm working on it. It is not easy, nor am I lacking fortitude. It can be done, but the further I get, the more I wish I had at least stayed where I did not have to produce every watt and drop. It's hard work, and at a level I doubt most could maintain... But it is not a fantasy, it is a dream... And if I ever forget that dreams sometimes come true, I have no idea what I'm surviving for.

Now, the notion that you will run to the woods when **** hits the fan and find a secluded knoll, and live an idylic life... That's pure BS. But I bugged out three years ago, and I'm getting closer every day.

Oh and the idea of city folk killing off all the deer is hilarious. If you've ever been around cityboys with guns, I bet you dollars to donuts, you didn't see a single deer. Five urbanites with guns, and those deer are deeper in the woods than they'll ever get. The main reason I hunt 15 miles away, and provide wildlife forage crops on every unused clearing on my property. They have to run somewhere when jackasses who couldn't field dress a rabbit, start running around with their "glocks for small game".

And beyond the survivalists and the preppers, there are quite a few homsteaders around on here, for whom surviving is getting up in the morning, and prepping is not much more different than staying ready for the annual road closures from snow or rockslides.

Living off the land is possible, but it requires your life. You can't dream about someday, you have to do it now, because if you wait for every Buffon with a tom brown book or survivorman DVD to head to the hills, you're going to be eating books or urbanites... I'll be hiding behind our rockslide.

-G

 

Far be it for me to say, but if you have a good water catching system, learn to plant a garden variety NOW. Learn to dry & save your crop seeds for future planting NOW. Learn to make fish hooks & string OR go stock up several life times worth NOW. Learn different ways to catch fish NOW. Learn which are healing herbs and plant them NOW. Learn which veggies give you which vitamins/minerals/proteins and plant them NOW.
Learn how to can your veggies with a water bath & canner NOW. Learn how to preserve your garden veggies through drying NOW.
Learn how to make a stone fire pit & solar oven NOW.

Then you won't have to worry about whether you can hunt or if there will be 'game' after the SHTF.

Anyone who has ever watched "Survivor" knows that as much as people think they are prepared, they ain't. There won't be any 'producers' here to toss you rice.
But if you get the basics down, you have a better shot than most.
Good post!

 

YOU CAN'T HIDE! The more isolated you are the more conspicuous you are. The best place to try to hide is in a big crowd. People are quite aware of any strangers in the area even in crowded city neighborhoods but especially in rural areas.

Well sir, I would have to say that you're just not thinking "rural" enough...

There are areas of this country where there are millions of acres of uninhabited land, where only a very few hikers venture far from established trails. You are not at all likely to get noticed there at all, unless someone with some major resources is actively looking for you, and then you’ve got another problem…. Still doable, but requires a whole different level of preparation/planning/diligence.

I have always found the survival mentality an interesting pastime and have often thought of surviving in the wild. If everything was normal it could be done but at great personal sacrifice and discomfort and only for a limited time. If there were any competition or threats-forget it.

There is no reason at all to assume that in a SHTF/societal collapse situation we will see an influx of millions or even thousands of former city dwellers flocking to these areas to kill off all of our deer and elk. Are you kidding? There is a reason most of these folks live in cities now. They are dependant, (not saying they’re all on welfare or anything, I’m referring to a mindset, here) comfort-seeking, and often more afraid of silence, “getting lost” or the prospect of spending time alone than they are of dealing with the obvious problems that you are going to see in populated areas if things get bad. Most of them will stay, and most of them will unfortunately die, if things are bad enough. Or they’ll end up in FEMA lines or camps looking for a handout. Most of these folks wouldn’t last a week in the woods on their own, and I don’t fear that they will become competition for those of us who really know the backcountry and don’t care if we see a town for months on end.

Living off the land is possible, but it requires your life. You can't dream about someday, you have to do it now, because if you wait for every Buffon with a tom brown book or survivorman DVD to head to the hills, you're going to be eating books or urbanites... I'll be hiding behind our rockslide.

-G

Most excellent post!

I agree with the idea that those who intend on running off to the hills when things get bad, having at best read a book or two and gone camping once a year, are living in a fantasy world and have a rude awakening, and likely a rather short life, ahead of them.

But those who say that with proper preparation living off the land is not/would not be possible are just displaying their own ignorance and/or fear.

 

I agree with the idea that those who intend on running off to the hills when things get bad, having at best read a book or two and gone camping once a year, are living in a fantasy world and have a rude awakening, and likely a rather short life, ahead of them.

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This is the point where I am, only I ordered about $350.00 worth of books, and I hike into my local woods whenever can and try things. This summer I made some progress with my foraging skills for instance.

Am I ready to live like a cave man? Nope, far from it, but I suspect I would survive longer than most at this point.

 

I can assure you that they spend many more hours acquiring their food than I do

Most of us spend about nine hours a day acquiring our food. It's just less direct.

 

the most important item for survival isnt found in your kit. It's your will to survive. Second is the frame of mind to understand that you are now in a survival situation and must react quickly. Then comes what you know. Equipment starts somewhat further down the list than most people think.

 

if you take out infant mortaliy rate and children dieing 5yr and younger. you will find life expectancy dromaticly raises.most deaths outside of war and old age was by children 5yrs and under, once they made it past 6yrs they usually survived to a ripe old age. in this day and age if we had the freedoms they had back then and the planet wasnt so over populated we could survive alot easire than you think.but in this day and age alot would just lay down and die also, because they just plain dont have a clue ,but some can and would survive and die at a ripe old age.

 

Wow. That is definitely a statement I will have to disagree with since I have lived off the land for not a long time, but I think two months is enough of a test.
I did not bring food with me. It isn't easy but it can be done. You have to set your prejudices aside. There is plenty of food with out large game. I lived without procuring large game for the entire two months.
I know it sounds (and it is) difficult but with the right mind set and education it is truly a garden of eden almost anywhere.
Why did man turn to agriculture 8,500 years ago after a nomadic hunter / gatherer life style since the dawn of **** sapien 2.5 million years ago? Simply certain "tribes" found it to be more efficient grow food in environments that favored domestication of plants. Remember there are still primitive hunter / gatherer societies today that live lavishly. Reference Amazon, Congo, Siberia, Australia, etc.

 

You could do it because only you were trying to do it. Add six billion other folks, of 300 million in the US (and most of them armed) and it is a different issue totally.