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It can't be done by modern man and was extremely difficult for the people of the past that had no option. Why do you think the life expectancy was so short?

I was born in an old farmhouse over seventy years ago and have lived on farms and farmed over several periods of my life in SW MO which isn't densely populated and has some so called wilderness areas-National Forest of many thousands of acres. If the people here started living off wild game it would be gone within 30 days. In todays world the information is available on the amount of game for most any given area and the conservation commission regulates the hunting seasons accordingly. The deer herds are kept at a pretty constant level with a short intense hunting season. With ANY additional hunting the herd would disappear quickly. There are good numbers of turkey but they would go the way of the deer and a turkey won't feed many people. Rabbits are scarce because of the coyote and foxes. The only game in abundance are squirrels and it would take a lot of squirrels to feed people so they would go quickly too.

I have lived in L.A., San Fran, in the S.Q. valley, New Orleans and traveled the world with Uncle so I have a pretty good idea of society in general.

YOU CAN'T HIDE! The more isolated you are the more conspicuous you are. The best place to try to hide is in a big crowd. People are quite aware of any strangers in the area even in crowded city neighborhoods but especially in rural areas.

I have always found the survival mentality an interesting pastime and have often thought of surviving in the wild. If everything was normal it could be done but at great personal sacrifice and discomfort and only for a limited time. If there were any competition or threats-forget it. And as far as living off plants, that's a joke. Why do you think even the primitive people grew crops?

The only way anyone can make it in the end is through cooperative effort.
 

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I agree with the overall sentiment of this post; however, I have to nitpick your opening argument. The life expectancy of hunter-gatherers and early horticulturists/agriculturists was primarily impacted by deaths at birth or in childhood. Had they reached puberty, they would have likely lived into the 50s, if not 60s. And that was without modern medical knowledge.

My anthropology studies have also shown to me that they also worked far less than we do today. Generally, a man would spend around 3.5-5 hours a day doing work related to horticulture. And any surplus they had would have went to waste, which means they worked more than they had to. Hunter-gatherers worked even less than that. Both enjoyed considerable amounts of leisure time.
 

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I agree with the overall sentiment of this post; however, I have to nitpick your opening argument. The life expectancy of hunter-gatherers and early horticulturists/agriculturists was primarily impacted by deaths at birth or in childhood. Had they reached puberty, they would have likely lived into the 50s, if not 60s. And that was without modern medical knowledge.

My anthropology studies have also shown to me that they also worked far less than we do today. Generally, a man would spend around 3.5-5 hours a day doing work related to horticulture. And any surplus they had would have went to waste, which means they worked more than they had to. Hunter-gatherers worked even less than that. Both enjoyed considerable amounts of leisure time.
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My personal studies into primitive man brought me to similar conclusions as you. Although, I really think that making it to old aged was more of a norm for them. They had none of the life shortening issues we deal with, and so long as they survived child birth, or tribal warfare they most likely lived as long as us, without any of the modern illnesses that cripple us in old age.

Think about it, they had plenty of leisure time, lots of pure organic foods, almost NO chronic stress and plenty of exercise. They were not exposed to crazy bosses, hectic schedules, toxic environments, poisons in thier food etc...

There are many primitive tribes today where the elders are still very active, alert and much healthier than modern man is at the same ages.In fact, I saw one on discovery years ago where a 70 year old tribes man was climbing huge trees, way up into the canopy to hunt monkeys. He did it in just a few seconds, but the young 20-30 something scientist had to use ratcheting equipment, mountain climbing gear, and 30 minutes to get to the same level.

I have seen old Kung Fu Masters who have not seen a real doctor in 30-40 years who are athletically superior to their 20 something students, and can just mop the floor with them.

They live naturally, spend lots of time out in nature (most do all thier training outside), eat mostly raw fresh veggies, and lean meats.

I think that whole short life span thing is a crock of pot ash, if you ask me. It just does not jive with what I have seen in real life.
 

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I just lost my post I wrote but the idea was that I don't think it is that cut and dry. Quickly...

Can stangers expect to move to a rural area and be invisible. NOWAY. Can those who already live in seclussion continue if done correctly. HELL YES.

Will all game dissapear if people start hunting to survive. In some areas YES. In all areas, NO WAY. Many people will not try or know how.

Can people do it alone. Not many at all. I would say less than 1% of us. Cooperation and trade is needed at some level.

Is living of plants a joke? For most. My self included. That is if we are talking about wild plants. Can I grow enough food to last a winter, YES, then keep the seeds for the following season . Can I suppliment it with a moose or two or three deer. YES.

Is living of the land a fantasy. For most yes. For some NO!
 

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Right now, it would be a fantasy as I still lack the hunting skills, and my foraging skills are in thier infancy. However, if I can meet my goals I could probably rough it in the next 18 months, and in 3-4 years of dedicated study and practice probably become very comfortable living off the land. This wouuld be especially so if i moved to a year round warm climate.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The people of the past lived on the knowledge acquired through many, many generations.

I would suggest reading 'Robinson Carouso' (hope I got that spelled right) His complaint which was common at the time was that it took so many hours labor just to fill his belly. In many native cultures it's the women who do most of the labor. You might also notice that they have very few possessions. Generally they live an uncomfortable vermin ridden life. The modern American spends less hours of their life acquiring food than any people in history.

I have been in the real estate business for many years and have watched people move to the country to live a simple self sufficient lifestyle. I've never seen it work. With all the modern advantages they are soon working at an outside job. The Amish have a very difficult time surviving. They also have to work at outside jobs. It is hard to go against the grain, it is much easier to work with the system.
 

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This wouuld be especially so if i moved to a year round warm climate.
I liked you post but was surprised by this sentence. Why?

Generally they live an uncomfortable vermin ridden life.
Gosh, I would like to see some sources about that. I think that is the misconseption that keeps us modern people in our foolish boxes.

[ The Amish have a very difficult time surviving. /QUOTE]

Man, another source please. I would think that if the Amish had a difficult time it would be from the forces from the outside world like taxes. Not because they do not have the skills.
 

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How do you think we got here?

If our ancestors didn't figure out how to live off the land, none of us would be here today. The reason most modern people can't live off the land is because they have separated themselves from the the Earth. The look at the wilderness as some challenge, instead of something to be embraced. Everything you need to live, not just survive, is already out there.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
What we consider backwards cultures everywhere have trouble with vermin. Just do a little reading and you will see that.

I live near and deal with the Amish. They are no different than anyone else except they try to isolate themselves from the modern world and I don't blame them. I can assure you that they spend many more hours acquiring their food than I do and they have an abundance of slave labor-I mean kids. LOL
 

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I liked you post but was surprised by this sentence. Why?
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I hate cold, and warmer climates have more food for greater portions of the year. Costa Rica for instance has 70-80 degree temps year round. The geography is full of edible plants, and animals year round.

You could almost just live on the beach, and never go inside if you didn't mind getting wet from rain.
 

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If our ancestors didn't figure out how to live off the land, none of us would be here today. The reason most modern people can't live off the land is because they have separated themselves from the the Earth. The look at the wilderness as some challenge, instead of something to be embraced. Everything you need to live, not just survive, is already out there.
Welcome to the boards! Good first post in my eyes. :thumb:
 

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The Amish don't lead overtly difficult lives by nature of their own society.
It is OUR society and OUR governments intrusive oppression that creates much of their difficulties.
In fact for all their self imposed austerity they were historically more typically prosperous than their Gentile neighbors.
 

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We have two distinct groups of people on this site (besides the politics and religious crowd). Those being the "survivalists" and those who practice "preparedness". We sometimes butt heads but nothing like the brawls in the other threads. Although I practice preparedness, I recognize the value of survivalist training because we face an unknown future and to rule anything out would be a mistake. IMO, the best practice would be a combination of both mentalities. One should not ignore the stockpiling of basic necessities in favor of living in a snowdrift eating moss. At the same time, one should not ignore basic wilderness survival thinking that their situation will never come to that and their supplies will last forever. To not practice some of both leaves you vulnerable. Murphy's law says that it will be the one thing that you do not prepare for will be the one thing that does you in. We have some time to learn and to put things into practice. We can learn from each other and increase each others odds. Being in a similar situation as Shootmor, as one ages the reality of what we are capabile of changes. I am preparing for an extended period of "change" and honing survival skills at every opportunity.
 

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If our ancestors didn't figure out how to live off the land, none of us would be here today. The reason most modern people can't live off the land is because they have separated themselves from the the Earth. The look at the wilderness as some challenge, instead of something to be embraced. Everything you need to live, not just survive, is already out there.
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This is one of the best post I have read so far! Well done!!
 
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