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Traditional Catholic
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Many Christians claim that the U.S. is a Christian country. If so, why was not Christianity explicitly made the law of the land in the Constitution? Why was not Satanism (and/or any/everything between Christianity and Satanism) excluded as a form of worship? After all, Satanists have just as much right to practice their religion as Christians. Maybe more. Is this extreme pluralism what makes America great? I don’t think so.

Note that I am a Traditionalist Catholic that fervently desires the U.S. to be, officially, a Christian country (preferably Catholic Christian). However, I simply cannot accept the claims of some Christians, predominantly evangelicals, that the U.S. is a “Christian country” or was founded on “Christian principles.” It’s a lie put into our heads by certain rulers meant to make Christians loyal and subservient to the state. They need good little underlings to go off and bleed for them, and pay taxes to them. Meanwhile our children, no less, are pushed down the wide road leading to hell promoted made even more smooth by the ruling elite than it otherwise would be.

Instead of being founded on Christ, the U.S. was founded on Liberty. That is the God that U.S. has enshrined as the ultimate good. In other words, do whatever you want. This was/is contrary to the Christian (Catholic) social order in place in the West before this revolution.

This Catholic social order is oft termed the “The Kingship of Christ”; that Christ be recognized not only as King of Christians, but King of all individuals, society, and the state itself. Thus, Christian laws should be put into force preventing the injustices we are beginning to see today.

See the below article on this topic by Christopher Ferrara for a better presentation.

http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/archive-2005-0815-liberty.htm


Some gems of his are quoted below:

“We are the victims of what Christopher Dawson described as ‘the reversal of the spiritual revolution which gave birth to Western culture and a return to the psychological situation of the old pagan world…’

. . .

More particularly, the collapsing societies of the West groan under the consequences of what one liberal commentator has characterized as ‘a fundamental orientation toward politics chosen by early-modern Europeans in order to free themselves from the intellectual and spiritual influence of the Catholic Church…’

By Catholic social order is meant a society with its organs of government, traditionally referred to collectively as the State, which recognizes the Catholic Church at its summit and is responsive to her teaching. Such a State orders its laws and institutions (however imperfectly) to the Christian moral code . . . This State may be monarchical, democratic or republican in its political constitution, . . . What was essential to this social order, known as Christendom, was the presence of an organic link between the Catholic Church and the State in virtue of which the Church was the conscience of the State. It is that link which was broken, and the result has aptly been likened to the decomposition of a human body from which the soul has departed.”

********************
I am also posting this in the Alternative Politics discussion forum. I invite comments, particularly from other Christians.
 

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Iēsous
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Many Christians claim that the U.S. is a Christian country. If so, why was not Christianity explicitly made the law of the land in the Constitution? Why was not Satanism (and/or any/everything between Christianity and Satanism) excluded as a form of worship? After all, Satanists have just as much right to practice their religion as Christians. Maybe more. Is this extreme pluralism what makes America great? I don’t think so.

Note that I am a Traditionalist Catholic that fervently desires the U.S. to be, officially, a Christian country (preferably Catholic Christian). However, I simply cannot accept the claims of some Christians, predominantly evangelicals, that the U.S. is a “Christian country” or was founded on “Christian principles.” It’s a lie put into our heads by certain rulers meant to make Christians loyal and subservient to the state. They need good little underlings to go off and bleed for them, and pay taxes to them. Meanwhile our children, no less, are pushed down the wide road leading to hell promoted made even more smooth by the ruling elite than it otherwise would be.

Instead of being founded on Christ, the U.S. was founded on Liberty. That is the God that U.S. has enshrined as the ultimate good. In other words, do whatever you want. This was/is contrary to the Christian (Catholic) social order in place in the West before this revolution.

This Catholic social order is oft termed the “The Kingship of Christ”; that Christ be recognized not only as King of Christians, but King of all individuals, society, and the state itself. Thus, Christian laws should be put into force preventing the injustices we are beginning to see today.

See the below article on this topic by Christopher Ferrara for a better presentation.

http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/archive-2005-0815-


Some gems of his are quoted below:

“We are the victims of what Christopher Dawson described as ‘the reversal of the spiritual revolution which gave birth to Western culture and a return to the psychological situation of the old pagan world…’

. . .

More particularly, the collapsing societies of the West groan under the consequences of what one liberal commentator has characterized as ‘a fundamental orientation toward politics chosen by early-modern Europeans in order to free themselves from the intellectual and spiritual influence of the Catholic Church…’

By Catholic social order is meant a society with its organs of government, traditionally referred to collectively as the State, which recognizes the Catholic Church at its summit and is responsive to her teaching. Such a State orders its laws and institutions (however imperfectly) to the Christian moral code . . . This State may be monarchical, democratic or republican in its political constitution, . . . What was essential to this social order, known as Christendom, was the presence of an organic link between the Catholic Church and the State in virtue of which the Church was the conscience of the State. It is that link which was broken, and the result has aptly been likened to the decomposition of a human body from which the soul has departed.”

********************
I am also posting this in the Alternative Politics discussion forum. I invite comments, particularly from other Christians.
Shes a modern day Goddess.......Liberty she is
 

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Registered
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Many Christians claim that the U.S. is a Christian country. If so, why was not Christianity explicitly made the law of the land in the Constitution? Why was not Satanism (and/or any/everything between Christianity and Satanism) excluded as a form of worship? After all, Satanists have just as much right to practice their religion as Christians. Maybe more. Is this extreme pluralism what makes America great? I don’t think so.

Note that I am a Traditionalist Catholic that fervently desires the U.S. to be, officially, a Christian country (preferably Catholic Christian). However, I simply cannot accept the claims of some Christians, predominantly evangelicals, that the U.S. is a “Christian country” or was founded on “Christian principles.” It’s a lie put into our heads by certain rulers meant to make Christians loyal and subservient to the state. They need good little underlings to go off and bleed for them, and pay taxes to them. Meanwhile our children, no less, are pushed down the wide road leading to hell promoted made even more smooth by the ruling elite than it otherwise would be.

Instead of being founded on Christ, the U.S. was founded on Liberty. That is the God that U.S. has enshrined as the ultimate good. In other words, do whatever you want. This was/is contrary to the Christian (Catholic) social order in place in the West before this revolution.

This Catholic social order is oft termed the “The Kingship of Christ”; that Christ be recognized not only as King of Christians, but King of all individuals, society, and the state itself. Thus, Christian laws should be put into force preventing the injustices we are beginning to see today.

See the below article on this topic by Christopher Ferrara for a better presentation.

http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/archive-2005-0815-


Some gems of his are quoted below:

“We are the victims of what Christopher Dawson described as ‘the reversal of the spiritual revolution which gave birth to Western culture and a return to the psychological situation of the old pagan world…’

. . .

More particularly, the collapsing societies of the West groan under the consequences of what one liberal commentator has characterized as ‘a fundamental orientation toward politics chosen by early-modern Europeans in order to free themselves from the intellectual and spiritual influence of the Catholic Church…’

By Catholic social order is meant a society with its organs of government, traditionally referred to collectively as the State, which recognizes the Catholic Church at its summit and is responsive to her teaching. Such a State orders its laws and institutions (however imperfectly) to the Christian moral code . . . This State may be monarchical, democratic or republican in its political constitution, . . . What was essential to this social order, known as Christendom, was the presence of an organic link between the Catholic Church and the State in virtue of which the Church was the conscience of the State. It is that link which was broken, and the result has aptly been likened to the decomposition of a human body from which the soul has departed.”

********************
I am also posting this in the Alternative Politics discussion forum. I invite comments, particularly from other Christians.
Ted-

I believe that many people see America as a "Christian Nation" not so much of any laws but rather the majority of the population. Our founders were wise to seperate the two. People are free to worship to their own beliefs.
When you refer to "Catholic" and 'Christian" I don't reconize any difference between the two other than a way to distingush which part of the Christian Church and beliefs. The word "Catholic" is not found in scripture any more than the word "Methodist" or "Luthern" etc.
As far as a collapsing socities you can find examples of that through out Europe starting with Rome. It's my opinion that the broken link between government and the Church is a good thing. No where do we find these teachings of a marriage between Church and State within scriptures.

(IMHO)
Jeff
 
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I don't want to live in Ted's nation. It sounds like it would be Iran with churches instead of mosques.

I submit Ted's post as further evidence for the insidious and virulent nature of the Jesus virus.
 

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I don't want to live in Ted's nation. It sounds like it would be Iran with churches instead of mosques.

I submit Ted's post as further evidence for the insidious and virulent nature of the Jesus virus.
read the other responses-

What would America look like if atheist were 81% of the majority, would they show tolerance Christians have shown to others?

I submit your many anti-Christian post as evidence of the brutal regime it would be.

(IMO)
 
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read the other responses-

What would America look like if atheist were 81% of the majority, would they show tolerance Christians have shown to others?

I submit your many anti-Christian post as evidence of the brutal regime it would be.

(IMO)
No, captives of the Jesus cult could dress up and play with their magic books and superstitious rites without impediment. My ideal "regime" would be a tiny constitutional democracy with broad social and economic freedom. All supernatural symbols, customs, and traditions would, of course, be stripped from government. (It sets a terrible precedent to base your moral authority on mythology.) The private sector could do whatever they wanted so long as they didn't initiate force on each other (without cause).
 

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strikes to the left
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No, captives of the Jesus cult could dress up and play with their magic books and superstitious rites without impediment. My ideal "regime" would be a tiny constitutional democracy with broad social and economic freedom. All supernatural symbols, customs, and traditions would, of course, be stripped from government. (It sets a terrible precedent to base your moral authority on mythology.) The private sector could do whatever they wanted so long as they didn't initiate force on each other (without cause).
And you honestly believe that? If Atheists were "majority" there is no doubt in my mind that each and every Christian, or any other worshiper of Gods, would be persecuted to no end. Your posts are just proof of that...you have absolutely no regard for beliefs that are different than you own, and every time you get an opportunity, you find a way to put down the believers.
 

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And you honestly believe that? If Atheists were "majority" there is no doubt in my mind that each and every Christian, or any other worshiper of Gods, would be persecuted to no end. Your posts are just proof of that...you have absolutely no regard for beliefs that are different than you own, and every time you get an opportunity, you find a way to put down the believers.
thats a crazy assumption.
 

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strikes to the left
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thats a crazy assumption.
Is it? I don't think it is. I mean, just look at the posting from many of the Atheists here. A Christian posts an opinion, then they get bashed to Hell and back because of a handful of words. And this is just a discussion forum. Imagine if it were something more.

Yes, there are a few who will not feel this way (and I believe you are one of them), but the majority will be relentless on religious persecution, probably making it into a sport of some kind.
 

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Is it? I don't think it is. I mean, just look at the posting from many of the Atheists here. A Christian posts an opinion, then they get bashed to Hell and back because of a handful of words. And this is just a discussion forum. Imagine if it were something more.

Yes, there are a few who will not feel this way (and I believe you are one of them), but the majority will be relentless on religious persecution, probably making it into a sport of some kind.
I say some pretty questionable stuff. But it's only because I want people to think about things differently sometimes.

Many of the founding fatehrs were atheist and IMO an atheist is exactly what a multi religious country needs makeing its laws. That's how alot of the founding fathers felt when they included the seperation of church and state.

I understand your stance though, many atheist do try to destroy faith. But that goes full circle, many christians try to destroy atheism. Just take a look around here and look at the vague generalizations against those that do not beleive. To be sensitive to the ones that go against your particular religious views is very biased.
 

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I help enlighten folks
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atheists aren't small minded people who persecute others. You're confusing them with religious people.
 
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And you honestly believe that? If Atheists were "majority" there is no doubt in my mind that each and every Christian, or any other worshiper of Gods, would be persecuted to no end. Your posts are just proof of that...you have absolutely no regard for beliefs that are different than you own, and every time you get an opportunity, you find a way to put down the believers.
I'm pro-freedom, friend. So long as you don't initiate force on me or use government to initiate force on me, I have no serious problem with you. Sure, we could exchange words here on the forum because we don't see eye-to-eye but that's just us exercising our freedom of speech. I think you should have the right to believe any damn fool thing you want, and based on your posts it appears you do believe damn fool things.
 
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Yes, there are a few who will not feel this way (and I believe you are one of them), but the majority will be relentless on religious persecution, probably making it into a sport of some kind.
I have yet to see a single post on here by an atheist suggesting religious persecution. Do you have a source on that? Attacking IDEAS, sure. In our globalized world we are having a competition of ideas just like capital. That's not "persecution".
 

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strikes to the left
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Of course, you're not going to speak on persecution. But you call my beliefs foolish and clearly express hatred towards Christians and God and expect me to believe that you would not be holding a torch or pitchfork?
 
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