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Discussion Starter #22
its not purely for accuracy, its for medium power levels and trajectory for the task. Accuracy at such levels is just the question i was posing.
 

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Another thing to consider is projectile performance. Pistol projectiles tend to open and make big holes. speeding them up in a carbine may cost performance as the expansion may limit your penetration. A cast SWC is not going to be an issue but a 110 gr hollow point may not be a good choice for deer. I loaded heavier projectiles in my carbines until the lead ban in California stopped my using them to hunt, now I use Barnes projectiles. for a good plinking round you might try 3 grains of bullseye with a 158 gr cast projectile. Crimp on the second lube groove as opposed to the crimp groove.
You should have specified that load as being for 38 special and not 357 magnum. The 158 cast projectile is Lyman mold number 358665 for a 158 grain round. Hope this eliminates anyone's confusion, about your input.:):):):D::thumb:
 

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There is a Lyman bullet mold for a SWC bullet that Elmer Kieth developed for a load they called 38-44. It has two crimp groves one for 38sp loads and another that seats the bullet farther out for heavy loads of 2400 powder and shot in large frame revolvers. That was the genesis of the 357. You can still get the mold. I have a gob of heavy loads in 38 brass that I shoot in my Marlin and Ruger SA. They shoot good.
 

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Thanks Outpost75, thats what I figured. He wanted to try some of the standard jacketed offerings too including 135 GDHP and 158 XTP so will be interesting to see how they go.

That sounds like a good load with the lyman bullet. 1300fps is decent velocity, like using an oversize 22LR, will create some tissue rupture as well. Id consider that a medium game getter to 100 yards if the accuracy is there and someone knows their shots.
5 grains of Bullseye with the Speer 135-grain Gold Dot bullet in a .38 Special case gives 900 fps in a 2-1/2" revolver and about 1080 fps in a 20-inch carbine. It slightly exceeds +P, but is within safe design limits for sturdy revolvers. Accuracy remains good and the bullet behaves normally without fragmenting as long as you stay subsonic.

The 11-grains of Alliant #2400 is a good load in .38 Special brass with the 158-grain Hornady XTP which gives about 1000 fps from a revolver and 1200 in a rifle, at chamber pressures about 15% above industry +P standard. OK in the sturdy revolvers, but not the small or light frames. Bullet performance is normal with deep penetration.
 

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There is a Lyman bullet mold for a SWC bullet that Elmer Kieth developed for a load they called 38-44. It has two crimp groves one for 38sp loads and another that seats the bullet farther out for heavy loads of 2400 powder and shot in large frame revolvers. That was the genesis of the 357. You can still get the mold. I have a gob of heavy loads in 38 brass that I shoot in my Marlin and Ruger SA. They shoot good.
Yes, that is the #358156 Ray Thompson design GC.
 

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A friend of mine put this to me tonight. Loading 38 special cases to magnum levels in a 357 carbine. Not to full house levels, say 1400-1500fps. Will jacketed bullets handle that freebore jump okay and have normal accuracy or will they be getting beaten up?
unless there's a shortage of .357 mag cases, why would you want to?

I mean, with the same hypothetical, I could shoot 44 spl/44 mag in my 444 Marlin. But that jump is twice as long

Just not the same thing as with a revolver.

Then again, some guys shoot .40 S&W in their 10mm, but only Glocks (near as I can tell).
Im with area man on this on this one.........why?
 

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It ain't fun to shoot these babies any more than it is fun to shoot 357s. I keep a case of them for bad times, like a prepper.
 

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I only shoot 357 mag in my 357 mag rifles. I use them for hunting. Working up an accurate load with cast projectiles is an art. Not all projectiles in the same weight shoot the same. Low pressure loads may not expand and allow gas to pass which leads to leading. High velocity may case the projectile to strip on the lands also leading to leading. You have to work the loads in your rifle. The concept of less jump is interesting and makes sense on paper. Now remember Weatherby put free bore in there rifles to reduce pressure? The OP needs to do their homework. This is a hunting rifle not a match or varmint rifle, opening the group by 1/2" is not really relevant.
 

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Exactly, plus most dies are either 38 Spec or 357, not many will do both effectively
In 45+ years of reloading I have yet to see a set of dies that was marked as either ".38 Special" or ".357 Magnum" - they have all been marked ".38/.357". I have 4 sets of dies on my loading bench (RCBS x 2/Lyman/Redding) and all are marked ".38/357". I suppose that if there were a set of .38SP dies from prior to the into of the Magnum round, but I don't imagine that the market is flooded with those.

Any .38 Special dies can load .357, any .44 Special dies can load .44 Magnum, any .40 S&W dies can load 10mm Auto and 10mm Magnum... etc, etc...

Not sure where you're getting your info from...
 

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My 38/357 dies are set for 38. When loading for .357, I use a 1/8" washer. Ditto 44 Spl. and 44 Mag. Redding, at least used to sell washers for this very purpose.
 

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Ridiculous. I shoot 38 special and 357 out of my lever action constantly and sometimes staggered in the same tube (Henry). Have never had an issue. Not once. Ever. Also, I never shoot steel case through it.
 

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Seem to recall Skelton and Keith writing about long seating heavy cast bullets in .38 cases duplicating .357 loads.

Did something similar yet backwards, with a Marlin .357 Cowboy. Long seated, small powder charge, heavy bullet. It was a small game load that literally stuck out the front of the cylinder of every .38 I tried it in.

Have some fun with it, just leave meticulous notes, just in case.
 

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unless he really needs to get in the extra round for cowboy shooting why would you. accuracy(bullet jump) reliability(carbon lead ring in chamber) safety(some dummy puts it in a smallframe revolver) Since you are already loading, I would go the other way and download in a 357 case. JM.02$
 

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I seem to recall a cast .357 bullet with two crimping grooves, one specifically for long seating the bullet to .357 lengths in .38 cases.

Not a new idea.
And as long as you clean the chamber before firing any actual .357 cases, you should be golden even at full pressures.


Lyman/Thompson #358156GC was the bullet.
 

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officially, never load past existing load data for a cartridge. it is a wicked bad idea. the limiting factor is the brass, and additional pressure can exceed what the brass is capable of dealing with. that being said, it all depends on the brass - certainly something to keep an eye on, and start low and work your way slowly up to what works.
 

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Responding late since my May 2020 input, but sixtus, you might want to consider this option. When I was reloading .38/.357 for pistol competitions in the revolver class during the late '80, we would load 9mm rounds (.355) and just crimp a tad harder. This would add velocity to your longer rifle barrel with the light bullet weight (i.e. 115 gr JHP) while the 9mm NATO (i.e. 124 gr JRN) might provide better stability or ballistics impact. I have not fired a 9mm bullet on either a .38/.357 in a rifle configuration but they worked find in my S&W 4' 586 revolver. I can't remember the power / load but I do remember starting out at mid-.38 loads and worked until I found the best accuracy with recoil that I could increase my timing and speed. This was legal (allowable) in our competition circles.

Another thing to consider is overall case / bullet length. Maybe the shorter 9mm in a .357 case might equal the OAL of a 158 gr .38 Lead RN. I don't know but do not exceed the OAL for any combination. Also, always start out with low / medium powder grain when experimenting with hand load.

Key Note: Extra room in the case does not mean extra room for powder.

Also: Don't mix alcohol and gunpowder - it tastes like $h!+
 
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