Survivalist Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
May the Lord be with us
Joined
·
5,784 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a fantastic study of the history of the implementation of socialized medicine, what the citizenry received, how the medical personnel were treated, and its results...

A must read for all serious students of the topic...

In 1918, the Soviet Union became the first country to promise universal “cradle-to-grave” healthcare coverage, to be accomplished through the complete socialization of medicine. The “right to health” became a “constitutional right” of Soviet citizens. The proclaimed advantages of this system were that it would “reduce costs” and eliminate the “waste” that stemmed from “unnecessary duplication and parallelism”—i.e., competition.
These goals were similar to the ones declared by Mr. Obama and Ms. Pelosi—attractive and humane goals of universal coverage and low costs. What’s not to like?

The system had many decades to work, but widespread apathy and low quality of work paralyzed the healthcare system. In the depths of the socialist experiment, healthcare institutions in Russia were at least a hundred years behind the average US level. Moreover, the filth, odors, cats roaming the halls, drunken medical personnel, and absence of soap and cleaning supplies added to an overall impression of hopelessness and frustration that paralyzed the system. According to official Russian estimates, 78 percent of all AIDS victims in Russia contracted the virus through dirty needles or HIV-tainted blood in the state-run hospitals.

Irresponsibility, expressed by the popular Russian saying “They pretend they are paying us and we pretend we are working,” resulted in appalling quality of service, widespread corruption, and extensive loss of life. My friend, a famous neurosurgeon in today’s Russia, received a monthly salary of 150 rubles—one third of the average bus driver’s
salary....


http://mises.org/journals/fm/oct09.pdf
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Don't judge all universal health systems on one example. In Australia we have some of the best doctors, surgeons and other health professionals in the world. Sure rich people can get health insurance if they want it - and pay through the nose, but the rest of us can break a leg, or get brain cancer, then get the best treatments and not have to pay a cent, or sometimes have to pay only a few dollars for some tests. We are happy to pay hefty taxes for our health system.
My Mother has just been diagnosed with breast cancer and has had two operations and a month of radiotherapy and is on the pension and no insurance. She gets free accommodation in the city where she is having treatment (she lives in a small rural town), low cost medications and hardly any test costs.

Before Obama, the US health system was a worldwide joke, and people cringed at the thought of getting sick over there. You may not like him but just about every other first world country and many others have universal health and do well with it. This is one great policy and you should at least give it a go.

There is my rant for the day.

Rowan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,154 Posts
This is a fantastic study of the history of the implementation of socialized medicine, what the citizenry received, how the medical personnel were treated, and its results...

A must read for all serious students of the topic...

In 1918, the Soviet Union became the first country to promise universal “cradle-to-grave” healthcare coverage, to be accomplished through the complete socialization of medicine. The “right to health” became a “constitutional right” of Soviet citizens. The proclaimed advantages of this system were that it would “reduce costs” and eliminate the “waste” that stemmed from “unnecessary duplication and parallelism”—i.e., competition.
These goals were similar to the ones declared by Mr. Obama and Ms. Pelosi—attractive and humane goals of universal coverage and low costs. What’s not to like?

The system had many decades to work, but widespread apathy and low quality of work paralyzed the healthcare system. In the depths of the socialist experiment, healthcare institutions in Russia were at least a hundred years behind the average US level. Moreover, the filth, odors, cats roaming the halls, drunken medical personnel, and absence of soap and cleaning supplies added to an overall impression of hopelessness and frustration that paralyzed the system. According to official Russian estimates, 78 percent of all AIDS victims in Russia contracted the virus through dirty needles or HIV-tainted blood in the state-run hospitals.

Irresponsibility, expressed by the popular Russian saying “They pretend they are paying us and we pretend we are working,” resulted in appalling quality of service, widespread corruption, and extensive loss of life. My friend, a famous neurosurgeon in today’s Russia, received a monthly salary of 150 rubles—one third of the average bus driver’s
salary....


http://mises.org/journals/fm/oct09.pdf
Sounds like the US....

A legacy of tainted blood

During a five- to six-year period in the early '80s before doctors figured out what was causing the strange disease that had turned up in California, New York and Florida, HIV quietly made its way into the blood given to people who need transfusions and the clotting factors that combat hemophilia, which occurs mostly in men.

Despite mounting evidence that AIDS was spreading among hemophiliacs, the agencies did not act quickly enough to prevent the spread of HIV, hepatitis C and hepatitis B through blood and blood products, the report found.

By the mid-1980s, about 10,000 hemophiliacs were infected with HIV. Many passed the virus on to their wives, who could then infect their children. About 5,000 people with hemophilia and HIV have died. The result was one of the biggest medical disasters ever.
 

·
1209
Joined
·
7,504 Posts
Don't judge all universal health systems on one example. In Australia we have some of the best doctors, surgeons and other health professionals in the world. Sure rich people can get health insurance if they want it - and pay through the nose, but the rest of us can break a leg, or get brain cancer, then get the best treatments and not have to pay a cent, or sometimes have to pay only a few dollars for some tests. We are happy to pay hefty taxes for our health system.
My Mother has just been diagnosed with breast cancer and has had two operations and a month of radiotherapy and is on the pension and no insurance. She gets free accommodation in the city where she is having treatment (she lives in a small rural town), low cost medications and hardly any test costs.

Before Obama, the US health system was a worldwide joke, and people cringed at the thought of getting sick over there. You may not like him but just about every other first world country and many others have universal health and do well with it. This is one great policy and you should at least give it a go.

There is my rant for the day.

Rowan
In Australia, without my parents consent or even being informed, surgeons who'd opened my older sister for 'exploratory' reasons decided to ignore the cysts on her ovary that were causing huge amounts of difficulty with her monthly cycle, in addition to pain, increased risks and difficulties later with conception, and a few other things. Instead, because some intern "needed to practice the procedure," they removed a perfectly healthy appendix.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,030 Posts
Well, the UK system is far better than the US system.
We pay a third of what you pay through our taxes and everyone is covered for every
disease and procedure. Our taxes don't go up because we
are becoming more unhealthy or we get older.

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/14/uk-v-usa-the-basic-healthcare-facts/

You however have a system were people cant afford to insure themselves as they
get older or even can't afford health insurance at all. Some healthcare companies
in the US are getting very wealthy while people die.
 

·
I hate everyone equally !
Joined
·
1,291 Posts
There are no differences in the healthcare in any western country the quality is the same ! The differences is in how we finance it . We have had the discussion before :)

Me as a person would never trust a insurancecompany ( Those are the biggest thiefs on the planet and their main goal is to make a profit and they will deny or delay your claim if they can do it and get away with it )

But i dont belive a system like ours would work in US ! I have several reasons for that belief ( US has for example way to many illegals that would benefit from it without paying back to the system witch would drain the system ) And the way Bureaucracy works in the US it would most likely end up in mess more expensive and less effective

( a friend told me about US bureaucracy and what he told me was that it was every department against each other and projects just to burn money so they could motivate next years budget )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
.......
Before Obama, the US health system was a worldwide joke, and people cringed at the thought of getting sick over there. You may not like him but just about every other first world country and many others have universal health and do well with it. This is one great policy and you should at least give it a go.

There is my rant for the day.

Rowan
If it was a joke before it better be a bad joke now. Obama further messed up the system. The problem with the view of non-American people on health-care (and many Americans miss it to) is the economics are more complicated than you guys give them credit for.
Our government is one of the chief reasons for our high cost of care.
 

·
May the Lord be with us
Joined
·
5,784 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, the UK system is far better than the US system.
We pay a third of what you pay through our taxes and everyone is covered for every
disease and procedure. Our taxes don't go up because we
are becoming more unhealthy or we get older.

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/14/uk-v-usa-the-basic-healthcare-facts/

You however have a system were people cant afford to insure themselves as they
get older or even can't afford health insurance at all. Some healthcare companies
in the US are getting very wealthy while people die.
and some of that coverage comes with the not-spoken-about increase in morphine for the elderly and terminally ill that sends them quietly into the night rather than generating "additional expenses..."

Some would argue that this is more humane, but I ask, is that a decision that you would like to make for yourself or a loved one, or would you like a government aparatchnik bureaucrat making it for you?
 

·
May the Lord be with us
Joined
·
5,784 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
( US has for example way to many illegals that would benefit from it without paying back to the system witch would drain the system ) And the way Bureaucracy works in the US it would most likely end up in mess more expensive and less effective

( a friend told me about US bureaucracy and what he told me was that it was every department against each other and projects just to burn money so they could motivate next years budget )

Good comments, Tankspridd...

Zero based budgeting is an anachronism that still plagues the worst of bureaucracies (spend it all or get less next time) as it virtually ensures waste.

The illegals element is huge and ever growing here as well....
 

·
May the Lord be with us
Joined
·
5,784 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sounds like the US....
During a five- to six-year period in the early '80s before doctors figured out what was causing the strange disease that had turned up in California, New York and Florida, HIV quietly made its way into the blood given to people who need transfusions and the clotting factors that combat hemophilia, which occurs mostly in men.

Despite mounting evidence that AIDS was spreading among hemophiliacs, the agencies did not act quickly enough to prevent the spread of HIV, hepatitis C and hepatitis B through blood and blood products, the report found.

By the mid-1980s, about 10,000 hemophiliacs were infected with HIV. Many passed the virus on to their wives, who could then infect their children. About 5,000 people with hemophilia and HIV have died. The result was one of the biggest medical disasters ever.


So now you are indicting the US Health System because "it" did not take action to combat HIV in the blood supply prior to the virus being discovered?

What, may I ask, do you think was occurring in every other nation on the planet at this time???

Ironically, the "it" that you are indicting for not taking action are not private practitioners, but the very government agencies and those still to be created by Obamacare.... I agree with you, as you are making a very compelling case to keep further government intrusion out of healthcare...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
216 Posts
Bottom line i wont be TOLD i have to have health insurance or i get fined.Also if i find out a doctor talks to my mother about how she would like to die,cause shes getting old and old now i guess =worthless under barrys health plan ewwwwww
 

·
May the Lord be with us
Joined
·
5,784 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Socialized medicine is not so much about medicine - except to ruin its quality - it's about big ivernment control of the masses.

Socialized medicine in America = Loss of Freedom for Americans....
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top