[140478]

So I was reading the posts about the shotgun trip alarms and it got me thinking about developing a layered defense strategy.

First Tier - Warning Signs - "Death to those that enter"
Second Tier - Shotgun trip Alarms
Third Tier - Infrared Trip Alarms
Fourth Tier - booby traps
Fifth Tier - fortified positions

This is more end of the world kind of thing but elements could be brought out in less then end of the world events.

Thoughts? I am 50/50 on the first tier. does that announce their is something worth defending or is it possibly going to prevent lone wolf attacks. Thoughts on the strategy or even ideas on books that help you develop a defensive strategy.

thanks

SF

 

[NW GUY]

FIRST, YOU really want the end of all law to set booby traps that can hurt/kill because they will land you in the clink if there is any law left and you hurt someone.

Otherwise nothing really wrong with the layers you are writing about.

ON the first layer I would go a little more authoritarian in message such as

Of course reword some of it but if your BOL is out of sight where the signage would be posted, it could give one pause to think about going into a military/gov't installation that could be manned by troops instead of other folks.

 

[OldDesertrat]

For less than SHTF, a simple "No Trespassing" establishes a legal warning. Post-SHTF? I like a circle with crosshairs encircling a stick figure and "You Are Here".

Trip alarms, but non-harmful pre-SHTF.

Post-SHTF? Whatever makes your little ol' heart go pitty-pat.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

I wonder if my pacing off the neighborhood and making notes not too long ago was obvious?

Let me ask a question; the IR alarms; why not have those BEFORE the shotgun alarms?

 

[6.8SPC]

For less than SHTF, a simple "No Trespassing" establishes a legal warning. Post-SHTF? I like a circle with crosshairs encircling a stick figure and "You Are Here".

Trip alarms, but non-harmful pre-SHTF.

Post-SHTF? Whatever makes your little ol' heart go pitty-pat.

You might want to super check on that for accuracy. Many of us in Alaska were of the opinion that was true here........We were shocked and urinated'off to discover otherwise.

Turns out that anyone can legally cross your private land. And that can be one person or a group of sixty people. They can NOT squat on or camp or damage private land. But they have the legal right to cross private land, and you can have a "No Trespassing" every six inches, and they can still legally cross private land.

My understanding is they can only cross on foot. Not ATV or D8 CAT Dozer.

Yes....it SUCKS...

 

[Metcalf]

I think the layers need to start MUCH further out in order to give you time to actually react and manage an issue ( unless you happen to own thousands and thousands of acres ).

 

[IceFire]

My first layer - THORNY berry bushes along the perimeter fences. Most people and critters are NOT going to want to tangle with the thorns, so will stay away. To the inside of those, Son-in-law will lay down the perimeter defenses. He was a combat engineer, so I will leave the additional perimeter defenses in his capable hands.

 

[140478]

I wonder if my pacing off the neighborhood and making notes not too long ago was obvious?

Let me ask a question; the IR alarms; why not have those BEFORE the shotgun alarms?

My reasoning was psychological. If you post up a sign that says you will meet your maker and then the noise from the bangers. The group may realize that in fact they are not prepared to go forward.

Then the IR alarms would give you notice they are continuing to advance but wouldn't tell them you know they are moving forward. I suppose the noise would be your warning but if you have enough distance you might want the indication they continuing to move towards you letting you know they are determined.

 

[4X4]

You might want to super check on that for accuracy. Many of us in Alaska were of the opinion that was true here........We were shocked and urinated'off to discover otherwise.

Turns out that anyone can legally cross your private land. And that can be one person or a group of sixty people. They can NOT squat on or camp or damage private land. But they have the legal right to cross private land, and you can have a "No Trespassing" every six inches, and they can still legally cross private land.

My understanding is they can only cross on foot. Not ATV or D8 CAT Dozer.

Yes....it SUCKS...

Did your law makers get that idea from Sweden with their awesome Allemansrätt (Outdoor access law)? That's a mess having some jack wagon legally being able to cross your lands.

 

[PalmettoTree]

Such traps are illegal. The SHTF better be past any form of justice else you are in trouble.

 

[SoJ_51]

I think the layers need to start MUCH further out in order to give you time to actually react and manage..

Agreed.. That's where the '12 ga trip 'alarms' work the best... Give that first, 'sufficiently long-distance heads-up'. And, you can Easily 'DIY' with some BP and imagination (which I obviously can't detail, here..

..If you go 'silent' (IR / detector-eye) First, then the tresspassers have time to Ingress, further.... And you'd better make 200% sure that 'invisible layer' is 500% 'foolproof' (rain / bugs / heat / snow / ants (not kidding..) battery + solar-recharge B/U, etc, etc) because IF it fails, now they're that-much further, in / you've got that-much Less time, etc..

..But, if the 'outermost layer' is audible from, say, ~1/4 mile out or more 1) you'll Know (and, in-tandem with a 'protocol', ie: If someone in your group will be Out that far, hunting w/ 12 ga, then Everyone Knows / is-informed, and there are 'comms to verify' if/when that Boom is 'ok' - or Not (ie: 'Kevin to Base, that discharge was NOT Me, all camp to DefCon One!!'.. etc..)

..then 2) the Trespasser now Knows You Know, and just might be discouraged from going further (especially if they encounter Our idea of a 'No Trespassing Sign' - see below.. :

..Now, I Do hear the 'other argument', also... That, if the intruder is alerted to the fact that they've been 'outed' (via the 12ga trip..) they could quickly 'sniper nest' (..IF they're so-armed / skilled.. I would assume they might-be..) and lie in wait for your Dogs / 'war party', etc that you'd then soon send out.. Even if you 'flank them', it could still end badly for you, so.. Why not 'let them enter' (but KNOW they did, via the 'stealth layer' (IR-trips, etc) and progress-in.. And then You are the one that snipes Them...

..Agreed, that's an 'ideal scenario', but.. Something Else could just as easily 'tip them off', while they were progressing in (ie: Dogs hear the approach / start barking, etc - Now, they 'know you know', so Your 'stealth advantage' is blown..) But now, they're closer IN... Not good...

..Of course, there needs to be 'overlap', and 'Zoning', so you know - pretty-much - what Quadrant of your property they first breached.. Then, via the Next layer (which I opin, is best to be One of the 'stealth-layers'..) will alert you - Now that You're in DefCon One, and On your video-cams and/or drone-surveil, etc, approx which direction they Moved, after the first-layer breach...

..For us, we've got it all mapped-out in an octagon / 'spider-web' type config.. Wiring is Done / hidden.. Trips / IR-lasers / eyes get added once we are Living On the BOL... We'll see how it goes, I guess..

..For Our BOL, at least, we've got a great situ, where there's pretty much only One 'in/out', that would be easy for anyone to approach-from.. The 'back-ways' are all solid-woods, and will be easy for us to cover with 'trip-surveillance'.. (and, much further Out, ie: roads off State roads (it's a good 2 miles from Any place a 'normal' vehicle can drive..)

..Point being, fairly easy to 'funnel' any 'casual walkers' / hikers / zommie gimme-dats, etc (who won't likely be prepared to make it up the Mountain / thru the woods, from the Other directions..) to the 'looks easy w/ a 4x4' entry points we Want them to use... (where we can lay Other traps / mines, etc, also..)

..So, re: 'Trespassing Sign', heh, well.. Our plan - If people Get to the Entries of those 'entry-points' (before the 'trips'..) are 'movie-grade prop-cadavers', ie: https://www.dappercadaver/

Note: ..I've purposely taken the '.com' Off, since the 'fake bodies' aren't 'dressed', and I don't want to 'get spanked' for posting a direct link... Fair Warning: those pages might not be considered 'SFW' and/or yer little kids.. Or people who barf easily.. :

..So, we Got a couple of those (similar, not-Quite so good / expensive, etc) and several of the 'limbs' etc, and a few of those will be 'hung' at the Outer-quadrants of our property (again, Pre-trips..) with a prominent crude board-sign that simply says: TRESPASSER :

..Also, because they'll be 'high up in Trees' (out of Bear / Coyote-reach..) they will have 'actual Gut / animal-blood' filings / splashes, etc, as I figure 'Crows pecking pieces off of them' will add to the 'sell'... : We'll see how it goes.. Just figure that might send a 'stronger message' than a simple 'Trespassers will be Shot', etc.. No one Reads, anyway..

.02
jd

 

[Ft Frostbite]

My first layer of defence is being at the end of a private bush track, out of sight and hopefully out of mind of potential trespassers or attackers. Track surrounded by forest and easily blocked to vehicles.

My second layer is having other homesteads between me and any likely direction of attack. Hopefully they get whacked first, giving me time to put my drone up for some aerial recon.

My third layer of defence is a big gun and a really bad attitude.

My final layer is a series of caches in the hills around my cabin, so I can run to the hills if my opponent has a bigger gun and worse attitude.

 

[Aerindel]

Filtering to reduce the number of attackers from potentially tens of thousands to hopefully less than ten is a prime concern of mine and area of study.

How to number the lines of defense itself is interesting. The first thing an attacker would face, is the last thing I would do in an escalating situation.

First line of defense is closing the highway that enters my valley by blocking it with heavy equipment at a tunnel. This about ten miles out.

Second line is closing off the access road where it diverges from the one paved road that branches off the highway. This will be by dropping one or more of several dozen large trees that line it, about a mile out.

Third line is extending a barbed wire fence straight across my road and removing the sign, this should make it look not like a driveway, but simply as an access gate in a horse pasture.


Fourth line is removing a cattle guard bridge on same road.

Next line is a closed gate, posted "No trespassing, intruders will be shot. Use radio in box on channel 1 at the top of the hour for more information"

This is ONLY on the road. Someone walking through the forest on foot will miss this.

This also has an IR alarm so I will know when the gate is reached.

Next line is combination on IR sensors (on places where I move) and shotgun primer trip wires between entry points. These are all just outside of visual range of my house so I will be alerted before I can be detected. They are also JUST outside range so that someone passing through may not even know there was anyone here until they are so close they would have found the place anyway.

Last line is a fortified Bastel house with guard towers, slit windows and planned firing positions.


In normal times "Defcon 5" Only the house and IR sensors are used.

As Defcon level escalates, so do the defenses, with the final act being closing the highway right before going into full lockdown, defcon 1, WROL situation where there is no going back to 'normal'

Did your law makers get that idea from Sweden with their awesome Allemansrätt (Outdoor access law)? That's a mess having some jack wagon legally being able to cross your lands.

Eh, it makes a lot sense in very rural settings when access is an issue and there may not even be any way to get through an area without crossing land.

In MT a trespasser must be personally met by the land owner and asked to leave. Its only trespassing if they refuse to leave after told to do so. This only applies to wild lands, not the area near your house.

IMO, this is fair and logical in a place where people may own hundreds of unmarked acres of land with no buildings, fences etc on them. The generally idea is that if you want privacy, you have to enforce it, not just buy the land and expect everyone else to stay off it with no effort on your part. There is a real fear here of some billionaire buying up thousands of acres just because he can and locking people out of the wilderness without actually doing anything with that land but squatting on a title.

 

[SoJ_51]

...Third line is extending a barbed wire fence straight across my road and removing the sign, this should make it look not like a driveway..

..Don't ferget to scuttle the I/O tire-ruts / tracks at the 'mouth'.. (..I assume it's either hard-pak dirt / driveway-gravel, etc, which, given the weather up there, I also imagine tire-tracks / ruts are a staple-feature, usually..) Maybe a few extra straw-bales kicking around / Fall-leaf rake-up piles, etc you can stash at that Point / quickly scatter as 'camo' (?) Just a thought..

..But I'm sure you've already got a plan for that... :thumb:

.03
jd

 

[Aerindel]

..Don't ferget to scuttle the I/O tire-ruts / tracks at the 'mouth'.. (..I assume it's either hard-pak dirt / driveway-gravel, etc, which, given the weather up there, I also imagine tire-tracks / ruts are a staple-feature, usually..) Maybe a few extra straw-bales kicking around / Fall-leaf rake-up piles, etc you can stash at that Point / quickly scatter as 'camo' (?) Just a thought..

..But I'm sure you've already got a plan for that... :thumb:

.03
jd

Its hard packed dirt and really nothing I could do to it that would look 'natural'

But, it is right at the corner of a horse pasture and there are a lot of places where ranchers just have a barb wire gate off a county road to get in and out of a pasture so tire tracks running under barbed wire isn't anything strange but it does mean the road doesn't go anywhere but that pasture (as compared to all the old logging roads etc)

 

[SoJ_51]

...there are a lot of places where ranchers just have a barb wire gate off a county road to get in and out of a pasture so tire tracks running under barbed wire isn't anything strange..

Gotcha... 'contextual-camo'... :thumb: 'Context' is Everything, indeed..

..Anyhoo, carry on..

.03
jd

 

[Herd Sniper]

The use of boobytraps has always bothered me since Viet Nam. Boobytraps don't have the ability to discern between different types of people. A boobytrap can only explode and kill or maim anybody who shows up in its path. That means that unarmed and innocent people can get nailed by a boobytrap just as quick as any hostile person could be nailed.

That means that any friend or family member who approaches your area could run the risk of being hurt or killed by something that they can't detect or expect to run into as they near your homestead. Would you want that to happen?

 

[Camelfilter]

Range finder. Easy & accurate. Looks like we’re birding.

I wonder if my pacing off the neighborhood and making notes not too long ago was obvious?...

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

Range finder. Easy & accurate. Looks like we’re birding.

That is on my list.

 

[Snyper708]

You might want to super check on that for accuracy. Many of us in Alaska were of the opinion that was true here........We were shocked and urinated'off to discover otherwise.

Turns out that anyone can legally cross your private land. And that can be one person or a group of sixty people. They can NOT squat on or camp or damage private land. But they have the legal right to cross private land, and you can have a "No Trespassing" every six inches, and they can still legally cross private land.

My understanding is they can only cross on foot. Not ATV or D8 CAT Dozer.

Yes....it SUCKS...

Maybe you should check yourself:

http://www.touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/Statutes/Title11/Chapter46/Section350.htm

AS 11.46.350. Definition; privilege to enter or remain on unimproved land.

(a) As used in AS 11.46.300 - 11.46.350, unless the context requires otherwise, "enter or remain unlawfully" means to

(1) enter or remain in or upon premises or in a propelled vehicle when the premises or propelled vehicle, at the time of the entry or remaining, is not open to the public and when the defendant is not otherwise privileged to do so;

(2) fail to leave premises or a propelled vehicle that is open to the public after being lawfully directed to do so personally by the person in charge; or

(3) enter or remain upon premises or in a propelled vehicle in violation of a provision in an order issued or filed under AS 18.66.100 - 18.66.180 or issued under former AS 25.35.010 (b) or 25.35.020.

(b) For purposes of this section, a person who, without intent to commit a crime on the land, enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders, is privileged to do so unless

(1) notice against trespass is personally communicated to that person by the owner of the land or some other authorized person; or

(2) notice against trespass is given by posting in a reasonably conspicuous manner under the circumstances.