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Ok, Im sure you may have questions regarding your knife use and applications.
This thread is intended to give the true green some insight as to knife vs. melee weapon defense. The following are 5 MAJOR knife defense tactics, if you carry a knife for defense then you should study and train on these. These are only outlines and you should modify them to suit your own styles. It takes practice, but like mom always said, practice makes perfect. :)

Defense rule #1. Your enemy does not know you have a knife.
Keep it discreet. No flashy moves or brandishing. If it's a true life and death situation, there is no need to try and showoff. Keep it discreet and win with one decisive strike.

Defense rule #2. If given the opportunity to escape, take it.
There is no need for useless bloodshed if it is not absolutely necessary.

Defense rule #3. If outnumbered, then draw them to your left.
This is an old teaching of Musashi, the thing is to make them line up for you. If drawn to the left, then discerning the position of your knife will be more difficult for the enemy.

Defense rule #4. Use your environment.
Make the enemy stumble about using the environment to your advantage, whether that be sticks, a curb, or furniture. Press the enemy into those situations. This takes alot of practice.

Defense rule #5. There are only 3 modes of attack.
Pressing the enemy with your own attacks, waiting for the enemy to falter on his own offense, and drawing the enemy with your supposed timidness. Use discrection on these tactics depending on the enemy's will.
 

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Ok, Im sure you may have questions regarding your knife use and applications.
You're "sure"?

This thread is intended to give the true green some insight as to knife vs. melee weapon defense. The following are 5 MAJOR knife defense tactics, if you carry a knife for defense then you should study and train on these. These are only outlines and you should modify them to suit your own styles. It takes practice, but like mom always said, practice makes perfect. :)

Defense rule #1. Your enemy does not know you have a knife.
Keep it discreet. No flashy moves or brandishing. If it's a true life and death situation, there is no need to try and showoff. Keep it discreet and win with one decisive strike.
ONE!?! Like knife-fighting dim mak?

Defense rule #2. If given the opportunity to escape, take it.
There is no need for useless bloodshed if it is not absolutely necessary.
Now THERE is some sound advise!

Defense rule #3. If outnumbered, then draw them to your left.
This is an old teaching of Musashi, the thing is to make them line up for you. If drawn to the left, then discerning the position of your knife will be more difficult for the enemy.
Right-hand dominant, two-hand sword techniques don't really transfer over well to right-handed, live hand forward knife methods....

Defense rule #4. Use your environment.
Make the enemy stumble about using the environment to your advantage, whether that be sticks, a curb, or furniture. Press the enemy into those situations. This takes alot of practice.

Defense rule #5. There are only 3 modes of attack.
Pressing the enemy with your own attacks, waiting for the enemy to falter on his own offense, and drawing the enemy with your supposed timidness.
Use discrection on these tactics depending on the enemy's will.
It's so simple, I never knew. Thank you.
:eek::
 

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Folks, I think we have another mall ninja katana fanboi.

The OP has mentioned in at least 3 threads I've seen so far that he has a Nihonto Katana.

::bells and whistles::

My Angus Trim cut and thrust will do the same thing a whole lot cheaper.

That said, I don't appreciate the condescending tone of the OP, and a lot of it is bogus for a real knife fight.

Non dominant hand forward knife fighting is all about control and is almost a grappling art. What the OP is describing sounds more like some Hollywood Under Siege knife fight where people are blocking knife to knife.

OP, I suggest you proceed with your future posts without the misunderstanding that many of us here are ignorant. Many of the arguments on these boards are about fine points by subject matter experts.
 

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somebody's been reading a little too much Go Rin No Sho... :rolleyes:
Musashi was a badass, but I think a lot of people idolize him a bit too much.

Weeaboos (white kids who think Japan is the mother land and everything cool is Japanese) almost seem to masturbate to The Book of Five Rings.

Additionally, people tend to forget that Musashi was a big, strong, angry, disfigured/diseased dude who beat several opponents with clever tricks or brute strength.

I'm not really making a point - just talking. :p
 

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Ok, Im sure you may have questions regarding your knife use and applications.
This thread is intended to give the true green some insight as to knife vs. melee weapon defense. The following are 5 MAJOR knife defense tactics, if you carry a knife for defense then you should study and train on these. These are only outlines and you should modify them to suit your own styles. It takes practice, but like mom always said, practice makes perfect. :)

Defense rule #1. Your enemy does not know you have a knife.
Keep it discreet. No flashy moves or brandishing. If it's a true life and death situation, there is no need to try and showoff. Keep it discreet and win with one decisive strike.

Defense rule #2. If given the opportunity to escape, take it.
There is no need for useless bloodshed if it is not absolutely necessary.

Defense rule #3. If outnumbered, then draw them to your left.
This is an old teaching of Musashi, the thing is to make them line up for you. If drawn to the left, then discerning the position of your knife will be more difficult for the enemy.

Defense rule #4. Use your environment.
Make the enemy stumble about using the environment to your advantage, whether that be sticks, a curb, or furniture. Press the enemy into those situations. This takes alot of practice.

Defense rule #5. There are only 3 modes of attack.
Pressing the enemy with your own attacks, waiting for the enemy to falter on his own offense, and drawing the enemy with your supposed timidness. Use discrection on these tactics depending on the enemy's will.
Spoken like someone who has never been cut before and never been in a real fight let alone a knife fight.
 

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I have an article in an old Guns&Ammo. What I remember is to claw with the left hand to the opponent’s eyes and pump the knife, screwdriver etc repeatedly into the stomach of the opponent. You could also grab the nuts of the opponent so he leans forward and then ram the blade into the neck of your “victim” or up into his throat or chest. Think these were described as effective prison techniques.
 

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I have an article in an old Guns&Ammo. What I remember is to claw with the left hand to the opponent’s eyes and pump the knife, screwdriver etc repeatedly into the stomach of the opponent. You could also grab the nuts of the opponent so he leans forward and then ram the blade into the neck of your “victim” or up into his throat or chest. Think these were described as effective prison techniques.
sound more to me like knife offense 101.
 

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In defensive tactics in police academy, we were taught to fight someone with a knife if every other option was unavailable. Accept the fact that you will get lacerations and puncture wounds and it's all about surviving at this point.
 

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I have a little knife fighting knolwedge albiet most is lay knowledge. Would anybody besides the OP be able to answer a question I have? I have heard that when fighting either an expirenced or determint opponent in a knife fight that you should use your hand as a shield, so to speak, either open palm to grasp the blade (as much as possible) or in a fist to deflect off the knukles. The idea being it's better to have you hand cut then your throat. Would anyone with expeirence agree and if so which method would you recomend? If not why and what would you reccomend?

I do have questions however I would rather hear from human expierence rather then parrot a book I read once like some people.
 

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I have a little knife fighting knolwedge albiet most is lay knowledge. Would anybody besides the OP be able to answer a question I have? I have heard that when fighting either an expirenced or determint opponent in a knife fight that you should use your hand as a shield, so to speak, either open palm to grasp the blade (as much as possible) or in a fist to deflect off the knukles. The idea being it's better to have you hand cut then your throat. Would anyone with expeirence agree and if so which method would you recomend? If not why and what would you reccomend?

I do have questions however I would rather hear from human expierence rather then parrot a book I read once like some people.
To be honest, I'm sure that anyone would agree with the idea that it's better to take a cut anywhere but the throat. In many Filipino blade systems, the non-weapon hand or the "live" hand can work to intercept the opponents blade hand but usually when striking the live hand covers either the heart or the throat to intercept a killing shot when the blocking blade and/or footwork has failed to protect. Either way, one should strive to take a cut to a non-vascular area & hopefully not get crippled, so most blade-oriented systems advocate in worst-case scenarios to intercept the blade attack with the ulnar bone, blocking with a cutting or chopping motion and moving at right angles. Don't think that you can back away from a knife attacker quicker than they can rush you, you have to move at right angles and get off-line from the initial attack!
Honestly, this kind of thing is really difficult to explain with just words & not even pictures, I really encourage you to get into a good FMA school to get some instruction. Where do you live? (closest major city, I don't need your grid coordinates)
That said... for both the layman and the experienced martial artist I'm a fan of the Dog Bros "Die Less Often" method for dealing with a knife or weapon you just can't run from for whatever reason. It's very similar to John Saylor's "Two-on-One pick", you basically want to get to the outside of the weapon hand, say the attacker is coming with a right-hand attack, you want to block any thrusts or slashes from hitting their targets and immediately get your right hand on the wrist and your left hand under & around the upper arm and move around the side of the opponent, supplementing the weapon hand restriction with head butts, knees to the thigh & low-line kicks hopefully with a combat boot. :D:
Then take the attacker down (on their face if at all possible). Disarm or run away! Two notes: you should strive to both keep the knife hand away from the opponent & out of their control, either straight down or at the hip, and also more skilled people will just try to do a switch and move the knife to the other hand, so once you get a measure of control of the knife hand/arm, rotate the weapon arm around behind the attacker, getting them moving in a circular fashion to facilitate that face-down take down.


I'll see if I can find a vid displaying this method in case my explanation.
 

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heres a revised rules for you :D:
Rules for knife fighting

#1 dont go places where you know trouble frequents
#2 carry a gun
#3 if they have the drop on you give them your wallet your just going to get killed trying to get your weap out
dont believe me give a friend a marker and get an airsoft poistol have him charge you from 21 feet or less and try to draw from your usual carry position youl proll end up covered with red lines before you can shoot your friend it takes an average of 1.5 seconds for someone to close a 21 foot gap
#4 in a knife fight no one walks away without bleeding/sliced up to carying degrees of badly

The Tueller Drill is a self-defense training exercise to prepare against a short-range knife attack when armed only with a holstered handgun.

One would think that a gun beats a knife every time[citation needed]. With superior weaponry, the fight should be easily won[citation needed]. But Sergeant Dennis Tueller, of the Salt Lake City, Utah Police Department, showed that it was not that simple[citation needed].

A common test of handgun skill was to start with one’s hands at shoulder level with a holstered gun and place two shots on a target 7 yards (6.4 m) away within 1.5 seconds. Typically, those trained with handguns can complete the drill in 1.3–1.4 seconds, although some have managed the task in less than one second[citation needed].

Tueller wondered how quickly an attacker with a knife could cover those same 21 feet (6.4 m). So he measured as volunteers raced to stab the target. He determined that it could be done in 1.5 seconds. These results were first published as an article in SWAT magazine in 1983 and in a police training video by the same title, "How Close is Too Close?"[1]

A defender with a gun has a dilemma[citation needed]. If he shoots too early, he risks being charged with murder. If he waits until the attacker is definitely within striking range so there is no question about motives, he risks injury and even death. The Tueller experiments quantified a "danger zone" where an attacker presented a clear threat.[2]

The Tueller Drill combines both parts of the original experiments by Tueller. There are several ways it can be conducted:[3]

1.The "attacker and shooter are positioned back-to-back. At the signal, the attacker sprints away from the shooter, and the shooter unholsters his gun and shoots at the target 21 feet (6.4 m) in front of him. The attacker stops as soon as the shot is fired. The shooter is successful only if his shot is good and if the runner did not cover 21 feet (6.4 m).
2.A more stressful arrangement is to have the attacker begin 21 feet (6.4 m) behind the shooter and run towards the shooter. The shooter is successful only if he was able take a good shot before he is tapped on the back by the attacker.
3.If the shooter is armed with only a training replica gun, a full-contact drill may be done with the attacker running towards the shooter. In this variation, the shooter should practice side-stepping the attacker while he is drawing the gun.
 

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heres a revised rules for you :D:
Rules for knife fighting

#1 dont go places where you know trouble frequents
#2 carry a gun
#3 if they have the drop on you give them your wallet your just going to get killed trying to get your weap out
dont believe me give a friend a marker and get an airsoft poistol have him charge you from 21 feet or less and try to draw from your usual carry position youl proll end up covered with red lines before you can shoot your friend it takes an average of 1.5 seconds for someone to close a 21 foot gap
#4 in a knife fight no one walks away without bleeding/sliced up to carying degrees of badly
I don't advocate "knife fighting" because 1) it's dueling which is stupid and also illegal, and 2) when do two people (read civilians) square off with knives? It doesn't happen. People are assaulted with blades, that's what happens, the odds of you actually being able to get away after the first engagement and draw your own blade and STILL have to engage are very very slim. I'm not going to say it NEVER happens, but c'mon... it's very unlikely.
 

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I don't advocate "knife fighting" because 1) it's dueling which is stupid and also illegal, and 2) when do two people (read civilians) square off with knives? It doesn't happen. People are assaulted with blades, that's what happens, the odds of you actually being able to get away after the first engagement and draw your own blade and STILL have to engage are very very slim. I'm not going to say it NEVER happens, but c'mon... it's very unlikely.
i ddnt say both participants have a knife even where only one person has a knife bot people get cut as people fight over the damn thing the attacker and the victim will proll both get cut they almost never end like in hollywood where someone just gets disarmed like in some steven segal/chuck norris movie


if theres a knife involved in a fight its a knife fight regardless of wich participant has it but you should prol focus on
#1 dont go places where you know trouble frequents
#2 carry a gun
#3 if they have the drop on you give them your wallet your just going to get killed trying to get your weap out
dont believe me give a friend a marker and get an airsoft poistol have him charge you from 21 feet or less and try to draw from your usual carry position youl proll end up covered with red lines before you can shoot your friend it takes an average of 1.5 seconds for someone to close a 21 foot gap
#4 in a knife fight no one walks away without bleeding/sliced up to carying degrees of badly
 
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Always be polite.
If someone asks you to leave, just leave. Don't stick around and make them back up their threats.
Don't go where trouble is.
Wear good running shoes everywhere you can.

Those are my self defense tips.
 

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i ddnt say both participants have a knife even where only one person has a knife bot people get cut as people fight over the damn thing the attacker and the victim will proll both get cut they almost never end like in hollywood where someone just gets disarmed like in some steven segal/chuck norris movie...
Actually, that's usually what doesn't happen. Most people, police included, don't even know that they've been stabbed until after the fact.
You said "knife fight", that's two people squaring off with knives. What you're talking about with a knife wielder attacking an unarmed person is called a knife assault.

See, the knife is a force multiplier. It requires no wind-up or chamber, it merely has to come in contact to do damage. Attackers with experience close the distance, often get a hold on the victim's sleeve or as you will see, a leg, and then just work the blade like a sewing machine, sometimes changing from high-line to low-line, until the job is done. Filipino grandmasters aren't going to be the ones attacking you, so why worry about that? We can kinda narrow down how street criminals are going to attack and drill to try to survive these attacks.
- Attackers close the distance, limit your movement and then attack.
- Defenders have to do the same thing but also limit the movement of the knife hand and maintain a dominant position, try to damage the attacker and escape if possible.



This isn't what happens:

this isn't what happens:

& this isn't what happens:
(not to say that this isn't useful, it's skill development drills, not reality.)

& none of this crap works against 95% of knife attackers (so why do it?):

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS:



This is how someone who knows a little about knife offense (beyond the tremendously effective "jail yard rush" method) will handle themselves:


Remember: if we can train, so can the BAD GUYS. They are just as able to log onto YouTube and get some new tactics to employ.
This video should give an idea on how difficult it is to deal with a weapon, also watch how the knife-holder manipulates the knife after the defender contacts the armed limb, and also watch how he uses his live hand while the defender tries to use BOTH of his hands to deal with the weapon. He can attack the face & eyes of the defender in addition to stripping actions to free the knife hand... admittedly, it will be rare that you meet someone skilled in Filipino or Indonesian knife systems that push this concept but still it pays to be aware.... & remember that this is just a slow drill and see how the defender STILL has a difficult time applying disarms. Real life with adrenal rush will make fine motor movements like this even more difficult.

I don't like Damien Ross for how much he scalped off of Carl Cestari, but this is how it works (& he's teaching how to basically murder people). Just goes to show....
Here's another, whether they know it or not these guys are teaching weapon retention techniques to criminals with 'net access. Irresponsible if you ask me:


This is good knife material, mostly so you'll know how to spot BS "knife fighter" training out there (*& heaven forbid you ever run into a good grappler who also knows how to use a knife*):

Enter Marc MacYoung, harsh reality with a double helping of cheese:


Okay, I finally found a vid that demonstrates what I was talking about, & it disgusts me that the Bussey ninja fakers stole this from someone who knows... but wade through the BS and watch the control technique.
...the last bit on this vid


Here's another. This may be a little more limited in application but it gets the point across that in order to survive you have to close the distance and restrict movement.
I don't like the preference for being inside the knife arm but you still see the point: limit movement/restrict knife arm/take down/hurt him (& go home?)

At :24, you can see what I was talking about with the two-hand grip on the knife arm. You're limited in what you can do so just take it straight to the ground, esp towards his window, move to a dominant position, etc etc

Here's some material from a striking art practitioner with a brain(!), he demonstrates that at striking distance an unarmed man can't face off with a knife wielder so what to do? if, & big if, you see the knife hand coming, check the knife (prepare to get cut), and tag right to the face & RUN.
If you prefer to be a striker not matter what techniques are the most high-percentage for success, this should be your main method.
& hopefully they're checking distance with the Fence or something similar:
Check the initial attack & then GO COMPLETE APE**** on the guy, not blocking, no defense, UNLEASH THE DRAGON on the guy with everything you've got, esp going for the face/throat/groin, & then run for help while your adrenaline is still pumping & hope that you aren't bleeding out.




Okay, & these are just for fun:
 
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