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Preserve Protect & Defend
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Discussion Starter #1
My intent in this thread is to inform those of you willing to be informed about how dangerous John McCain is to our liberty and our nation. I will do this by presenting facts about his history his campaign and his voting record then commenting on them. I welcome discussion, further information and even defenses of McCain by his supporters, argument only leads to further expansion of knowledge and ideas.

Furthermore I want to address the attacks that I will likely be met with claiming that I am pro Obama. I am by no means a supporter of him or any of the "Two-Party-System Party" candidates. Obama is open with his support for huge social programs as well as strict limitations and removal of 2nd Amendment rights. Therefor I feel that discussing him would be a waste of time. I think the average republican does like liberty and wants to support it and that is why I would like to show you all how dangerous McCain is to our cherished freedom.

One final word before I get rolling on this thread. The only thing left to do to support our liberty and constitution is to really do your own research about candidates. Find a third party that mirrors what you think is truly valuable and vote for that individual, then spread that message to others. The "you will throw your vote away" argument is illogical since both parties are so far from liberty that you are basically voting on what path to take to the same end. A vote for more Democrat or Republican control as we have had for nearly one hundred years is truly a wasted vote.
 

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*** Forgives, I don't
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So basically you're just saying "don't vote". My 2 cents, I'm voting McCain because I feel he will do more good than Obama. 'Nuff said on the subject.
 

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Preserve Protect & Defend
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Discussion Starter #4
McCain is not nearly the "maverick, moderate reformer" that he claims to be and has been represented as by the media. McCain's 2008 presidential campaign is filled with lobbyist connections. McCain has more current and former lobbyists working on his campaign staff than any other candidate in the 2008 presidential election period. Indeed his Chief political adviser, his senior policy adviser, his campaign manager and at least 26 others involved closely with his campaign are or have been lobbyists. Therefor McCain and his campaign have already mislead the people.


McCain has also been one of the biggest beneficiaries of campaign contributions from the telecom, transportation, and media industries. These companies all have had interests before the Senate Commerce Committee, which McCain chaired. He is by no means a "maverick, moderate reformer".



"Liberty has never come from the government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of resistance." --Woodrow Wilson
 

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I help enlighten folks
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McCain is not nearly the "maverick, moderate reformer" that he claims to be and has been represented as by the media. McCain's 2008 presidential campaign is filled with lobbyist connections. McCain has more current and former lobbyists working on his campaign staff than any other candidate in the 2008 presidential election period. Indeed his Chief political adviser, his senior policy adviser, his campaign manager and at least 26 others involved closely with his campaign are or have been lobbyists. Therefor McCain and his campaign have already mislead the people.


McCain has also been one of the biggest beneficiaries of campaign contributions from the telecom, transportation, and media industries. These companies all have had interests before the Senate Commerce Committee, which McCain chaired. He is by no means a "maverick, moderate reformer".



"Liberty has never come from the government. Liberty has always come from the subjects of it. The history of liberty is a history of resistance." --Woodrow Wilson

don't waste your breath, many are too afraid of black people to vote against mccain.
 

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Preserve Protect & Defend
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1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
So basically you're just saying "don't vote". My 2 cents, I'm voting McCain because I feel he will do more good than Obama. 'Nuff said on the subject.
No, I am saying do not vote for evil, either candidate is going to further decimate your liberty. Voting for more of the same nonsense we have been subjected to by these two parties is illogical. Freedom is not a choice between a or b freedom is the ability to weigh what is best for our nation and actually support that whether it will make an immediate impact or not, that is what being a good citizen is all about.

The lesser of two evils is still evil, voting for evil makes you?
 

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Perhaps it's just me, but the idea that the country is controlled by this one elected official is a missconception. There are 2 other branches with just as much power and yet no one really cares.

we think if we electe the right president the entire country will do alot better. It takes more than that.
 

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Preserve Protect & Defend
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Discussion Starter #9
I did this research a while back so some of these people may have steped down, I know several of his people have.

--Richard Davis, campaign manager. Davis, who also served as McCain's campaign manager in 2000, founded a lobbying firm (Davis Manafort Inc.) which has made at least $2.8 million lobbying Congress since 1998.

--Christian Ferry, deputy campaign manager. Ferry previously worked as a lobbyist for Davis Manafort from 2003 to 2005.

--Charles R. Black Jr., "chief political adviser,". Black is a lobbyist and chairman of BKSH & Associates.

--David Crane, "senior policy adviser," according to the Huffington Post's Edsall. Crane is a lobbyist and president of Quadripoint Strategies.

--Carlos Bonilla, economic policy adviser. Bonilla is a lobbyist and senior vice president for The Washington Group.

--Aquiles Suarez, economic policy adviser. Suarez was last registered to lobby in mid-year 2007 for the National Association of Industrial and Office Properties.

--Grant Aldonas, economic policy adviser. Aldonas is managing director for Split Rock International, where he lobbied for Mittal Steel USA in 2006.

--Nancy Mitchell Pfotenhauer, economic policy adviser. Pfotenhauer was a lobbyist for Koch Industries in 2001. She is the former president of the Independent Women's Forum.

--Former Sen. Phil Gramm (TX), campaign co-chairman. Gramm is the vice chairman of UBS Securities, and was last registered to lobby for the bank in mid-year 2007.
 

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I'm voting for Obama because of 2 reasons.

1: I'm a college student and anyone who will take some of the financial burden off me is my friend.

2: I remember in elementary school seeing that fossil fuels will run out in my life time... The person that will put forth more effort in to this area has my vote.

Other than that I don't care. I need my education, I need to be able to get to work in the future.

Case closed.
 

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Preserve Protect & Defend
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1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Perhaps it's just me, but the idea that the country is controlled by this one elected official is a missconception. There are 2 other branches with just as much power and yet no one really cares.

we think if we electe the right president the entire country will do alot better. It takes more than that.
YES!

You are correct, but breaking this idea that we have only two choices for president is an important part of getting the people to make real political decisions instead of voting for there side like it's there favorite sports team.

That being said, when you consider that the two party system has lead to so much corruption that the branches no longer monitor and limit each other as they are supposed too. Many unconstitutional things are based bipartisanly. The executive branch for example has the ability to wage war without a declaration of war from congress as the constitution prescribes and the president can issue executive order that work as law regarding almost any issue. The only way to get the branches to start balancing each other power again is to break the strangle hold the republicans and democrats have on our society.
 

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Frealism,let me now when your ready to run for public office and dont forget to post your platform:rolleyes:..........
 

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Preserve Protect & Defend
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1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I'm voting for Obama because of 2 reasons.

1: I'm a college student and anyone who will take some of the financial burden off me is my friend.

2: I remember in elementary school seeing that fossil fuels will run out in my life time... The person that will put forth more effort in to this area has my vote.

Other than that I don't care. I need my education, I need to be able to get to work in the future.

Case closed.
So as long as you get some cash you are willing to surrender your freedoms and MINE? Please think long term, one day you will be out of school and have a family, you will also have fewer rights and garnished wages for the social programs.

Your education is your responsibility, get loans. The government should not take money from everyone to support your college career. Liberty is about personal freedom and individual responsibility. Liberty is work.
 

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Preserve Protect & Defend
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Discussion Starter #15
Frealism,let me now when your ready to run for public office and dont forget to post your platform:rolleyes:..........
I probably never will, by my platform is simple, and it's already written and readily available. It's called the constitution and it is instructions and limitations for the federal government. This highest law of the land is ignored by the two parties.
 

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*** Forgives, I don't
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I'm voting for Obama because of 2 reasons.

1: I'm a college student and anyone who will take some of the financial burden off me is my friend.

2: I remember in elementary school seeing that fossil fuels will run out in my life time... The person that will put forth more effort in to this area has my vote.

Other than that I don't care. I need my education, I need to be able to get to work in the future.

Case closed.
1. It's the Democrat controlled Congress that won't allow drilling
2. If this meltdown of the economy continues, you won't have a job to go to
3. The problem today is People thinking they can get a free ride, pay for your education as others have done.
 

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Preserve Protect & Defend
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1,112 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
John McCain does not believe in free speech:

McCain:
--Voted YES on Amendment to prohibit flag burning. (Dec 1995)

--Voted YES on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)

No matter how much you hate flag burning and those who do it, it is and should be a constitutionally protected form of symbolic free speech. It is really no different from wearing a T-shirt that says "I hate America" on it.

I understand he is a veteran but that is no reason to vote against free speech, which he did twice. If he let personal bias from his time in the military interfere with his decisions then that is even worse.



Yet another reason McCain is not the right man for the job.

 

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Lobbyist Shmobbiest

People that make their living working on political campaigns have to do something in the off years, and since most of them like the DC culture, they get jobs as lobbyists.

So what if McCain has lobbyists running his campaign?:sleep:
 

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Preserve Protect & Defend
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Discussion Starter #20
People that make their living working on political campaigns have to do something in the off years, and since most of them like the DC culture, they get jobs as lobbyists.

So what if McCain has lobbyists running his campaign?:sleep:
Corruption.

There is to much money and power involved in lobbying, it breeds corruption. These people, that have had and still do have agendas that affect there bottom line are feeding advice to McCain and guiding him in policy decisions.

I am not sure if your post was sarcasm, I hope it was but if not, it's OK go back to :sleep:.
 
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