[stillborn]

Quick question here. I was looking at some of the S&W model 64 .38s that were on J&G sales. They are listed as regular .38 spl, do you think they are capable of shooting +P ammo? Or shoot it like a K frame .357... lots of .38s and .357s on occasion? At $250 or so I guess it doesn't matter that much. Just looking for some input.

Thanks,

 

[kicker84]

i bought one for my mother. i ran a few +p though it with no problem. the guy who owns the store i FFL through said he had one and did it a bunch and never hada problem. It's a beefy gun. I'm sure S&W would not say its a good idea but I have.

 

[SgtBooker44]

64's should be able to handle the +P's. It's the same rame as the 65 & 66. Smith & Wesson should send you a free owners manual if it's not on line.

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[Magman77]

Quick question here. I was looking at some of the S&W model 64 .38s that were on J&G sales. They are listed as regular .38 spl, do you think they are capable of shooting +P ammo? Or shoot it like a K frame .357... lots of .38s and .357s on occasion? At $250 or so I guess it doesn't matter that much. Just looking for some input.

Thanks,

I would shoot nothing but +P's in it. They're built to take it. I use Federal 124gr Nyclad Hollow points in mine. They are a wonderful and under appreciated firearm. Good choice. :thumb:

 

[levelfarmer]

.38 sp. +p ammo is really pretty anemic. It is more of a marketing gimmick. You have to handload or go somewhere like Buffalo Bore to get really hot .38 sp ammo. Your 64 could handle a box a day of generally available +p indefinitely without hurting it.

 

[whirlibird]

The 64's are good to go with +P's.
I wouldn't make daily shooting fodder, but I'd carry it anytime.

 

[Tango2Echo]

As a part-time gunsmith who has been through the S&W school and as someone who shoots 12-15K rounds of pistol ammo per year, I will say that I would NOT make a habit of shooting +P ammo through a 64. I doubt a few now and again will hurt anything, but it is pretty easy to buldge a cylinder, loose correct timing, or errode the BC gap and forcing cone on a Smith of that vintage. Those guns were only tested to a working pressure of 20,000cup and you are talking about 25,000cup+ loads. Standard .38s are around 14,000 to 18,000. CorBon .38 +P's have a WORKING pressure of 28,500cup, which means 2% of the loads may exceed 31,350. That exceeds the designed working pressure of a 64 by 11,350cup. Or by about 60%.

So, my opinion is no. Make a steady habit of it and bad things will eventually happen.

T2E

 

[Tango2Echo]

I'll also say this, IME, the Hornaday 125gr XTP .38spl (not +p) is only 120fps slower from my 5.5" GP100 than the +P loads of the same type. The "Non" load will penetrate 11.5" of ballistic gel and the +P will do 12.25. Both expand to about .42-.45. The difference in pressure is enough to flatten and crater the primers on the +P load, and they are sticky to extract. If it were me, and I was loading for PD, I would choose the "Non" load simply for easier extraction with nearly the same performance. Either way, a half inch slug moving through a foot of flesh is going to be "disruptive".

t2e

 

[levelfarmer]

As a part-time gunsmith who has been through the S&W school and as someone who shoots 12-15K rounds of pistol ammo per year, I will say that I would NOT make a habit of shooting +P ammo through a 64. I doubt a few now and again will hurt anything, but it is pretty easy to buldge a cylinder, loose correct timing, or errode the BC gap and forcing cone on a Smith of that vintage. Those guns were only tested to a working pressure of 20,000cup and you are talking about 25,000cup+ loads. Standard .38s are around 14,000 to 18,000. CorBon .38 +P's have a WORKING pressure of 28,500cup, which means 2% of the loads may exceed 31,350. That exceeds the designed working pressure of a 64 by 11,350cup. Or by about 60%.

So, my opinion is no. Make a steady habit of it and bad things will eventually happen.

T2E

SAAMI lists its standards for pressure in standard .38 special at 17,000cup and .38 special +P at 20,000cup. Are you telling us that Corbon is loading their .38 special +p at some 40% higher than the SAAMI standard?

 

[dcliffhanger]

As a part-time gunsmith who has been through the S&W school and as someone who shoots 12-15K rounds of pistol ammo per year, I will say that I would NOT make a habit of shooting +P ammo through a 64. I doubt a few now and again will hurt anything, but it is pretty easy to buldge a cylinder, loose correct timing, or errode the BC gap and forcing cone on a Smith of that vintage. Those guns were only tested to a working pressure of 20,000cup and you are talking about 25,000cup+ loads. Standard .38s are around 14,000 to 18,000. CorBon .38 +P's have a WORKING pressure of 28,500cup, which means 2% of the loads may exceed 31,350. That exceeds the designed working pressure of a 64 by 11,350cup. Or by about 60%.

So, my opinion is no. Make a steady habit of it and bad things will eventually happen.

T2E

Vintage revolver? You're kidding, right? The 64 was not introduced until 1972 and is a proven design made of modern materials. Stainless no less. Sure beats the PVC zip guns claiming the ability to withstand +P+ 9mm loads in the 40,000 preasure range, and so worshipped today.

You guys are also comparing Copper Preasure Units to P units and it is not the same. SAAMI did the switch several years back but forgot to go back and rewrite all the history done before that date so you have people constantly comparing numbers from one unit sorce to the other. A real neat trick in caliber to caliber comparisons.

No one at Corbin or anywhere else in this day and age is going to advertise or attain 40% over max loads.

That is a lawsuit waiting to happen, even with disclaimers!!!

 

[Tango2Echo]

SAAMI lists its standards for pressure in standard .38 special at 17,000cup and .38 special +P at 20,000cup. Are you telling us that Corbon is loading their .38 special +p at some 40% higher than the SAAMI standard?

.38spl 17,000cup is a MAP (Max Average) pressure and well within the 14-18K I stated. .38spl loads vary a great deal in pressure from one brand and bullet to the next, and ammo made years ago will often have higher pressure than what we have today. (Higher pressure doesn't mean it is "hotter" or "faster" either.) The industry standard pressure (ISP) has been 17,000 for the past few decades. Working pressure (SWP) can be calculated as 17K x 110% or 18,700. This reflects that 2% of the loads will usually be (up to) 10% hotter than the other 98%. So the Working pressure of .38spl is 18,700.

.38spl +P has a MAP of 20,000cup. The ISP is 25,000. And WP is 22,000. What you need to understand is the ISP is basically a gentlemans agreement that no ammo maker will load anything above 25,000. That doesn't mean they don't. (CorBon, BuffaloeBore, DoubleTap all push the limits here) WP is just a reflection of the imperfections in ammunition, test conditions, and measuring equipment. They can't be 100% perfect, so they say 98% is good enough.

The point I am trying to make here is you need to know what pressure value you are talking about. CUP is still widely used, and PETMPSI is slowly taking over as the excepted form. It makes little difference on straight walled cases.

t2e