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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Now......if you can just get all the bad guys to stand still, at exactly the right distance, you may be able to get most of those pellets on target......although, a bunch will land in arms and legs anyway.

I have killed a lot of stuff with shotguns.

But for everything I have killed with a shotgun, there have been many shots I didn't take because the distance was "too far".

I get that shotguns can be fast and versatile.....but I also get that if, during a gunfight, a bad guy appears with a rifle (or perhaps even a handgun) further away than a modest 50 yards, he will most likely kill you.

There are plenty of carbines (and brace stocked "handguns") that don't give anything away to the shotgun on speed and lethality, that will also range out to >200 yards if you have to.

Perhaps it is the difference between OK and better.

Better is the right choice for targets that shoot back.

Let me guess, you shoot buck in a cylinder bore barrel.
 

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The Black Death
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As you pull them from the 32 hull quad loading skid, load them up...and fire away. An accurate shotgun has you covered to 75 yards and under.

4-BUCK - SLUG - 8-BUCK - SLUG - 4-BUCK - SLUG - 8-BUCK - SLUG - 4-BUCK - SLUG - 8-BUCK - SLUG - 4-BUCK - SLUG - 8-BUCK - SLUG .....
 

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I would have to still insist that everything you do for defense will depend upon your terrain and situation. Living in the wilds of Alaska, one would not be overly concerned with Mutuant Eskimo Sledders so multiple attacker situations are unlikely. Living in LA, you are sincerely behind the 8-ball because you have so many strikes against you that you will probably die of thirst before you get to the gun fighting phase.
On the plains and midwest, if you are in a rural area, the shotgun would be useful for inside the house. If you are out tending the herd or the crops, you might want a rifle. Unfortunately, when you are engaged in the business of feeding yourself, someone will need to provide for your security, hard to plow or birth a calf and keep a 360 degree perimeter.
Even on the plains, it still gets dark. A shotgun is a little more forgiving that a rifle for those things that go bump in the night, or try to bump you off in the night.
 

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Nice video. Maybe I've been watching The Voice too much lately, but... Anyone ever tell you, you look like John Legend?

A shotgun is a good gun for beginners new to home defense. As you get more experience shooting you quickly realize if you're going to go to the trouble of carrying a heavy rifle, that a rifle in a rifle caliber makes more sense. The benefit of the ability to reach out and hit a target at 500yds, or more, can not be overemphasized.

The rifle does everything defense related better than a shotgun. It's precise at both longer ranges and short ranges. It turns cover into concealment.

The only thing where the shotgun is easier than a rifle is small game hunting. A rifle can be used for that as well though.

I live in the sticks. "Pants on gun on" is my motto. A handgun is the 1st thing I'll grab. Followed by and AR15.
 

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All firearms have their place in a shtf situation. But to be fair to the shotgun, compared to an AR-15 is a lot more reliable in my opinion. AR-15’s are great weapons but will need a logistical supply train like the military to support it. AR’s may need a new bolt carrier group as well as the assembly that keeps it functional and let’s not forget that AR springs need to be replaced as well. I haven’t even gotten to the fact that who’s going to be carrying all the tools you have to use to take it all apart. A simple pump action shotgun like a Maverick 88 or Mossberg 500 only need maybe two different size flathead screwdrivers and a pen to take it apart. Also if your shotgun gets rusty all you need to do is rack the slide hard enough and it’ll still work. Shotguns are tanks. I’m not saying that the AR is bad but it’s not perfect and the whole “AR-15’s are like Legos” is a big fat lie just as Glock pistols aren’t perfect. I’m not saying that neither platform is better than the other but both do have their pros and cons. Also M&P 4 Life.
 

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I would have to still insist that everything you do for defense will depend upon your terrain and situation. Living in the wilds of Alaska, one would not be overly concerned with Mutuant Eskimo Sledders so multiple attacker situations are unlikely. Living in LA, you are sincerely behind the 8-ball because you have so many strikes against you that you will probably die of thirst before you get to the gun fighting phase.
On the plains and midwest, if you are in a rural area, the shotgun would be useful for inside the house. If you are out tending the herd or the crops, you might want a rifle. Unfortunately, when you are engaged in the business of feeding yourself, someone will need to provide for your security, hard to plow or birth a calf and keep a 360 degree perimeter.
Even on the plains, it still gets dark. A shotgun is a little more forgiving that a rifle for those things that go bump in the night, or try to bump you off in the night.
To be fair as someone who’s lived on the coast in suburban and city life I’d have to say that I’ve watched news stories of rural areas getting demolished by natural disasters like hurricane aftermaths, tornadoes, floodings, and mudslides. Shtf can happen to anyone anywhere and just because folks might live farther from the cities or from other people doesn’t give them an advantage. I remember many years ago in the nineties when there was a big tornado somewhere in the Midwest and our class had to get canned food and other items to donate to the refugees. They were asking kids in schools near NYC to do this. I hope this doesn’t come off as me wagging a finger and I wouldn’t dare but that example says how much everyone rely on each other.
 

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All firearms have their place in a shtf situation. But to be fair to the shotgun, compared to an AR-15 is a lot more reliable in my opinion. AR-15’s are great weapons but will need a logistical supply train like the military to support it. AR’s may need a new bolt carrier group as well as the assembly that keeps it functional and let’s not forget that AR springs need to be replaced as well. I haven’t even gotten to the fact that who’s going to be carrying all the tools you have to use to take it all apart. A simple pump action shotgun like a Maverick 88 or Mossberg 500 only need maybe two different size flathead screwdrivers and a pen to take it apart. Also if your shotgun gets rusty all you need to do is rack the slide hard enough and it’ll still work. Shotguns are tanks. I’m not saying that the AR is bad but it’s not perfect and the whole “AR-15’s are like Legos” is a big fat lie just as Glock pistols aren’t perfect. I’m not saying that neither platform is better than the other but both do have their pros and cons. Also M&P 4 Life.
I agree a shotgun maybe more reliable. However i highly doubt anybody will shoot enough post SHTF to wear out either.
 

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Wearing fur underwears...
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I agree a shotgun maybe more reliable. However i highly doubt anybody will shoot enough post SHTF to wear out either.
Was about to agree, but it really depends on the gun. And a little bit to do with the action. There are likely a bunch of semi auto shotguns that will fall apart before a good AR wears out a quality barrel. But that likely won't matter much until you stock upwards of 6000 rounds. Or perhaps more, depending on your accuracy standards. And some semi auto shotguns will blow through that easily, and outlast many pump actions, and cheap break opens.

Handled properly though, I'd likely rather put my money on a good double barrel gun, with 2 separate sets of locks. Or good bolt action, or lever in a lower pressure chambering.

If you plan on shooting thousands of rounds, it might not be a bad thing to have a few parts.
 

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Was about to agree, but it really depends on the gun. And a little bit to do with the action. There are likely a bunch of semi auto shotguns that will fall apart before a good AR wears out a quality barrel. But that likely won't matter much until you stock upwards of 6000 rounds. Or perhaps more, depending on your accuracy standards. And some semi auto shotguns will blow through that easily, and outlast many pump actions, and cheap break opens.

Handled properly though, I'd likely rather put my money on a good double barrel gun, with 2 separate sets of locks. Or good bolt action, or lever in a lower pressure chambering.

If you plan on shooting thousands of rounds, it might not be a bad thing to have a few parts.
Nobody post shtf is shooting 6k rounds. And certainly not the 10k or more to wear out any parts on a modern gun. Even now when ammo is expensive BUT nowhere near SHTF expensive, 6k rounds is 3 grand. Post shtf it would feel like 30 or even 100.
 

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Any one that has at least one AR should have at least a few replacement parts on hand. A couple bolts, gas rings, firing pins and a couple misc small parts kits for lowers and uppers. The spare parts kits are still pretty cheap as are gas rings and firing pins. Bolts will run you more, around $70 for a good one such as a BCM.
It also does not hurt to have a gas key or two and a few extractors. Outside of something very freakish, you are not going to wear out an AR15 bolt carrier.
 

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I know this thread is 6 months old but I'm still going to weigh in. A lot of folks deride the shotgun because of the reasons mentioned; low capacity, slow to reload, short range, heavy ammo, etc. While all that is very true, for realistic self defense use the shotgun is still a fantastic choice, and my first choice for home defense. I'm all about stopping the fight and I don't think any other platform does it more decisively than a shotgun. I also believe no other firearm is better suited to making hits in a dynamic, fast moving situation. At the end of the day that's what it's all about, making hits and stopping the fight generally in less than 3 rounds in a few seconds. When the day comes that a home defense shotgun is not adequate because conditions dictate, we'll know it and adjust accordingly. Now, am I going to be squirrel hunting in the swamp after hurricane Katrina rolls through? Probably not.
 

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Wearing fur underwears...
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Nobody post shtf is shooting 6k rounds. And certainly not the 10k or more to wear out any parts on a modern gun. Even now when ammo is expensive BUT nowhere near SHTF expensive, 6k rounds is 3 grand. Post shtf it would feel like 30 or even 100.
I agree, but certainly people plan on that. I don't plan on buying ammo after. I do reload, and have a decent stock for a variety of guns.

I guess I find some comfort in knowing I could. But I'm not really stuck on pushing just one gun to very high round counts either.
 
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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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For the sake of discussion, While you are doing a failure drill on the first do-bad with your handgun his two partners are busy lighting you up. Three trigger pulls with the shotgun the fight is over.

Debate.
 

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If your survival plan firearm is focused on 'what if' gun battles, you aren't going to survive that long. Firefights are not something that are conducive to long term survival. They burn through ammo, are prone to gun shot related injuries and ultimately end up with me being dead.

What makes a shotgun very effective is the selection of ammo, giving you the ability to use it as a, 100 yard self defense weapon, big game hunting weapon and a bird/small game hunting weapon. They adapt easily to a reflex type sight. There is simple no other firearm that fits these three conditions as well as a shotgun. If you've never hunted with a shotgun you really don't know the power it carries and the distances it is lethal at. Shells are also incredibly cheap to reload and slugs/buck shot is easy cast. If you add a 22lr you really have a great long term selection of firearms to protect and feed yourself.

An 870 or 590 with a extended tube and a speed feed stock offers a best of all world solution.

This will do the business.

 

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For the sake of discussion, While you are doing a failure drill on the first do-bad with your handgun his two partners are busy lighting you up. Three trigger pulls with the shotgun the fight is over.

Debate.
How do you know that? Let’s not fall into “I’m good with this weapon so I’m invincible” because we may never know what would happen during a shtf situation. What if you caught a heart attack during the combat situation and your 10 year old daughter has to take the reigns. Now the situation has flipped from you having the advantage by being good with a weapon to the opponent having the advantage because a young girl has to fight them off while dealing with your severe medical condition. Yeas rifle and shotgun are better weapons than a handgun but a handgun is HANDY because it is easier to carry, conceal, and maneuver with than the longer or heavier rifle and shotgun. What if there’s a checkpoint and there’s no way to get around it. Approaching them with a long gun can be detrimental by making you a target. While a handgun iwb or in a fanny pack can make you look less suspicious. Shtf is playing the long game.
 

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Any one that has at least one AR should have at least a few replacement parts on hand. A couple bolts, gas rings, firing pins and a couple misc small parts kits for lowers and uppers. The spare parts kits are still pretty cheap as are gas rings and firing pins. Bolts will run you more, around $70 for a good one such as a BCM.
It also does not hurt to have a gas key or two and a few extractors. Outside of something very freakish, you are not going to wear out an AR15 bolt carrier.
You make good points. But the thing someone has to worry about is what parts on the AR-15 will wear or break first. I would think that if I was going to have to leave my bug in location I’d have spare parts for the bolt carrier group only and a cleaning rope for the barrel and a small bottle of oil to keep it running and that’s it. Everything else that’s bulky and heavy would have to stay. Weight is a killer when your on foot.
 

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I have 6- 12 gauge and 1-410 shotguns. They are for urban defence. If I have to bug out they won't be coming with me unless some unarmed tag along friends or relatives show up to carry them.
The shotgun is a fierce weapon in a urban environments. Especially when maneuvering around and inside buildings as well as moving behind the cover and concealment of vehicles that are all over the roads. I lived in the try state NYC metropolitan area and understand that yes a rifle would do well in that environment but the shotgun would thrive just as well if not better. Someone posting by an apartment building main door would be a force to reckon with because all that person would have to do is walk inside and use the doorway as a choke point.
 
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