Survivalist Forum banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Psalm 34:4
Joined
·
23,140 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This guy ( annoying the way he talks and works) destroys a lifestraw and a sawyer mini just to see whats in them. Personally I think it proves even more the lifestraw is a waste of money. Any crack in the bottom of a lifestraw or the epoxy holding the filter medium in place and there will be a lot getting past the filter.
The sawyer is made with the filter medium epoxied at the top so anything getting inside the filter has to go through the filter medium. Much tougher plastic housing and epoxy too from the looks of it.


 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
65,881 Posts
Folks here keep trying to discourage people from buying the Lifestraw because of its many shortcomings. This is just one more of them. But it's like trying to discourage them from buying Berkey filters. They buy them first, then come here to see if they made a wise purchase. :rolleyes:
 

·
Beer Truck Door Gunner
Joined
·
30,272 Posts
Been saying it for years that I wouldn't own a Lifestraw even if they were free.

Heck, they even tried to give me a few free ones and I took a hard pass.

Water is too critical to use bad gear for. As an emergency reserve, it is still better to have another Sawyer. The MSRP is about the same.

The best use for the Lifestraw is stuff them in a box and mail them to natives in the deep Amazon. That's about the only way they have decent use without all the shortcomings. Though you still get that situation of needing to act like a gazelle at an African watering hole.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
875 Posts
People have mentioned to me that I have become more intolerant as I have gotten older, but I believe my opinion that the guy in the video is edging into the bozo zone is well founded. He irritated the devil out of me, and I found myself hoping he would catch his hand on that grinder disc, just a little bit to teach him respect for the tool. Then the constant babbling about the obvious, and the unimportant, how gratuitous.

I noticed something I feel may be of some significance. The Lifestraw draws the dirty water to the inside of the hollow fibers, the clean water being drawn from the inside to the outside of the fibers, the Lifestraw having the open ends of the fibers potted to the intake end.

The Sawyer is designed exactly opposite, the open ends of the fibers potted to the clean water end, so that the dirty water is drawn into the casing to the outside of the fibers, clean water being therefore drawn from the outside to the inside of the fibers.

Given that these types of hollow fiber filtration devices can only be cleaned by back flushing, it seems to me that a more efficient back flushing would be accomplished when washing/blowing the debris off of the outside of the fibers where they would quickly clear and be flushed out of the housing, as in the Sawyer.

Attempting to clear the fibers to the inside seems to create a situation where congestion would be likely to occur, resulting in the probability of an inefficient cleaning. That is, instead of the debris quickly being flushed out of the housing, it would be forced to negotiate very tiny tubes to exit.

This design difference is significant to me as it relates to the longevity of the flow possible from the filter through time.

I was researching what materials were used in potting various things for something I was thinking about attempting, and found that most commonly urethane and silicone blends where used (expensive). It seems to me that in potting these hollow fibers for the creation of a water filter, they would not have used an epoxy. This is an area I need to know more about, the materials involved, and the various methodologies.

So even though watching that fellow tearing up those filters was irritating, I think It had some value.

Thank you for posting that jfountain2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,391 Posts
Though you still get that situation of needing to act like a gazelle at an African watering hole.
I've never payed any attention to lifestraws for just this reason. Even if I was running and hiding in the woods (not gonna happen) I would not want to lie down by the creek every time I needed a drink. And, how do you get water to cook with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
166 Posts
He seemed biased towards Sawyer but I'm okay with that.

Sawyer is cheaper, lasts longer, and now that I can see the internals, the better design.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,891 Posts
This guy just wanted to make a video.

The video was basically a child taking apart something understanding and proving nothing, very sophomoric. A better use of time would have been to such through each with a vacuuming device then testing the before and after water.
 

·
High Concept
Joined
·
4,828 Posts
This guy just wanted to make a video.

The video was basically a child taking apart something understanding and proving nothing, very sophomoric. A better use of time would have been to such through each with a vacuuming device then testing the before and after water.
Yeah, there was just no cat in the video to redeem it.
 

·
Beer Truck Door Gunner
Joined
·
30,272 Posts
This guy just wanted to make a video.

The video was basically a child taking apart something understanding and proving nothing, very sophomoric. A better use of time would have been to such through each with a vacuuming device then testing the before and after water.
Given that the filter media is the same I doubt the filtration data will be much different between the 2 but there is no way to test.

To test a Lifestraw you would have to suck some water up into your mouth and spit it out. Mouths are not sterile places.

The true differences between the brands are utility and durability. For the same price you get almost useless utility with the Lifestraw. They are also rather fragile. User accounts abound about the breakage of the inlet end of the Lifestraw.

Lifestraw could have certainly adapted to the competition and put out a more utilitarian model, but instead chose to plow more money into advertising and promotions, instead of innovation.

Sawyer likes innovation. They like adaptability. They like durability. They like utility. And they always price competitively.

Sawyer is a great "system" and Lifestraw is an ancient clumsy design they blow promotional money on now that their assembly machines have depreciated to zero.

The new Sawyer Micro might just be their best offering yet. I'm just hoping its price will start to drop down to Mini pricing as they sell more. The Sawyer Tap is also rather interesting for rural folks.

I also wish they would try offering something like the Katadyn or Platypus carbon stage offerings. Their Select system kind of missed the mark and isn't very adaptable. I'm guessing that Sawyer uncomfortable about toxin filtration because it is so complicated and they like to emphasize confidence. But as long as their offerings let us adapt our own carbon filtering then I'm strong on their brand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aceoky and SoJ_51

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,891 Posts
Given that the filter media is the same I doubt the filtration data will be much different between the 2 but there is no way to test.

To test a Lifestraw you would have to suck some water up into your mouth and spit it out. Mouths are not sterile places.

The true differences between the brands are utility and durability. For the same price you get almost useless utility with the Lifestraw. They are also rather fragile. User accounts abound about the breakage of the inlet end of the Lifestraw.

Lifestraw could have certainly adapted to the competition and put out a more utilitarian model, but instead chose to plow more money into advertising and promotions, instead of innovation.

Sawyer likes innovation. They like adaptability. They like durability. They like utility. And they always price competitively.

Sawyer is a great "system" and Lifestraw is an ancient clumsy design they blow promotional money on now that their assembly machines have depreciated to zero.

The new Sawyer Micro might just be their best offering yet. I'm just hoping its price will start to drop down to Mini pricing as they sell more. The Sawyer Tap is also rather interesting for rural folks.

I also wish they would try offering something like the Katadyn or Platypus carbon stage offerings. Their Select system kind of missed the mark and isn't very adaptable. I'm guessing that Sawyer uncomfortable about toxin filtration because it is so complicated and they like to emphasize confidence. But as long as their offerings let us adapt our own carbon filtering then I'm strong on their brand.
Sure there are ways to test these straws. It would be easy enough to such through them with a big syringe, a large suction bulb attached to a tube or there are vacuum devices.

I check streams for fecal matter, pH, and conductivity. All of these can be measured before and after. If one is outside accepted parameters further test could be used. Regardless these 3 test would do a good job of comparing the the two straws.
 

·
Beer Truck Door Gunner
Joined
·
30,272 Posts
Sure there are ways to test these straws. It would be easy enough to such through them with a big syringe, a large suction bulb attached to a tube or there are vacuum devices.

I check streams for fecal matter, pH, and conductivity. All of these can be measured before and after. If one is outside accepted parameters further test could be used. Regardless these 3 test would do a good job of comparing the the two straws.
But you don't have to rig up a contraption to test a Sawyer. It also carries a a better micron rating.

Let's face it, Lifestraw doesn't even make the effort.

If the core design if water through dialysis fibers is all the same then why does Sawyer make the effort to create new options and utility, but Lifestraw won't? That alone should speak volumes about the two companies. Who knows, if Lifestraw makes it hard enough to test their product they won't see amateur testers on Youtube put them through the paces. Instead they just tell Amazon to mark them half price again this week.

Look at the Deal of the Day thread sometime. It's a good thread to have a subscription in. Lifestraw discounts happen at multiple times the rate of Sawyer discounts, and the rarer Sawyer discounts aren't as deep. That means more profit is built into Lifestraw that they can waste on promos.

The argument about better filtration is a side issue. Lifestraw never challenges Sawyer about their better micron rating. They just slash the price once a month and promise to keep you safe. So then we are left with innovation and utility. Sawyer puts out far more small personal models and their utility compared to Lifestraw isn't even fair.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,891 Posts
But you don't have to rig up a contraption to test a Sawyer. It also carries a a better micron rating.

Let's face it, Lifestraw doesn't even make the effort.

If the core design if water through dialysis fibers is all the same then why does Sawyer make the effort to create new options and utility, but Lifestraw won't? That alone should speak volumes about the two companies. Who knows, if Lifestraw makes it hard enough to test their product they won't see amateur testers on Youtube put them through the paces. Instead they just tell Amazon to mark them half price again this week.

Look at the Deal of the Day thread sometime. It's a good thread to have a subscription in. Lifestraw discounts happen at multiple times the rate of Sawyer discounts, and the rarer Sawyer discounts aren't as deep. That means more profit is built into Lifestraw that they can waste on promos.

The argument about better filtration is a side issue. Lifestraw never challenges Sawyer about their better micron rating. They just slash the price once a month and promise to keep you safe. So then we are left with innovation and utility. Sawyer puts out far more small personal models and their utility compared to Lifestraw isn't even fair.
I was just commenting on the test methods of the video which produced no objective results. We already knew one was shorter than the other. One use of each would have told you if the longer one had the density of the shorter one. I'll bet if you looked at the test data and did an ANOV the conclusion would be no statistical difference. Only the average of each was different that does not tell you what the 99% confidence interval is or even if they used a 99% confidence interval.

Without seeing the test data I would buy either one. Price would likely be my determining point. If I found one I would not waste my time searching for the other because I doubt the price difference would be worth my time.

My comment about the worthwhileness of the video. I like numbers and statistics. I hate youtube videos because most do not get to the point. You get one minute of information for every 5 minutes you watch.
 

·
Beer Truck Door Gunner
Joined
·
30,272 Posts
Without seeing the test data I would buy either one. Price would likely be my determining point. If I found one I would not waste my time searching for the other because I doubt the price difference would be worth my time.
Price is your preferred metric over utility, when you don't have process data?

Utility carries a lot more value to me. The price differential would need to extremely overwhelming for me to bypass utility for price.

The fact is that you can far easily put the Sawyer through process tests yourself. Sawyer has to know that and knows its backside is out in the breeze for any YouTuber to filter a sample easily to put in a lab test. Many large municipalities offer residents a free lab test every so often. I can send my Sawyer filtered water to the municipal lab and get the lab data back for free in about a week. But I would need a Rube Goldberg device to get a clean sample from the Lifestraw.

The fact you can't easily lab test the Lifestraw hints to me they like that fact.
My comment about the worthwhileness of the video. I like numbers and statistics. I hate youtube videos because most do not get to the point. You get one minute of information for every 5 minutes you watch.
Yeah OK, the amateur vids are amateurish. Color me not surprised.

You get what you pay for, right?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MikeK and SoJ_51

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,891 Posts
Price is your preferred metric over utility, when you don't have process data?

Utility carries a lot more value to me. The price differential would need to extremely overwhelming for me to bypass utility for price.

The fact is that you can far easily put the Sawyer through process tests yourself. Sawyer has to know that and knows its backside is out in the breeze for any YouTuber to filter a sample easily to put in a lab test. Many large municipalities offer residents a free lab test every so often. I can send my Sawyer filtered water to the municipal lab and get the lab data back for free in about a week. But I would need a Rube Goldberg device to get a clean sample from the Lifestraw.

The fact you can't easily lab test the Lifestraw hints to me they like that fact.

Yeah OK, the amateur vids are amateurish. Color me not surprised.

You get what you pay for, right?
There is always someone emotionally attached to every discussion.
 

·
Beer Truck Door Gunner
Joined
·
30,272 Posts
There is always someone emotionally attached to every discussion.
So instead of dealing with the relevant counterpoint put to you, you call it a day with a non sequitur?

If you had no emotional attachment you would have posted nothing if you had nothing of topical relevance to write.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,145 Posts
Sawyer is better. The dual thread mini filter is great. You Can use it for a lot of things.

I’m interested in the survivor line of filters. Like a slightly bigger sawyer but 3 layers of filter and goes to .015 microns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,891 Posts
I can send my Sawyer filtered water to the municipal lab and get the lab data back for free in about a week.
OK you list the labs that will do the testing for free and I will buy both straws and send them to be test. If and only if I verify they will do it for free and get the test back to me in a week.

I am excited to know there are such labs. There is a bunch of other stuff I would lie tested. The difference between particular brands of wrist vs. arm blood pressure cuffs; the difference in accuracy of different brands of blood sugar home test; the difference between different brands of % oxygen in blood. My list of couriosity is great.

I embrace you being correct on this. I am excited about seeing your list of "municipal lab and get the lab data back for free in about a week". Please do not delay in your proof of me being wrong.
 

·
Beer Truck Door Gunner
Joined
·
30,272 Posts
OK you list the labs that will do the testing for free and I will buy both straws and send them to be test. If and only if I verify they will do it for free and get the test back to me in a week.

I am excited to know there are such labs. There is a bunch of other stuff I would lie tested. The difference between particular brands of wrist vs. arm blood pressure cuffs; the difference in accuracy of different brands of blood sugar home test; the difference between different brands of % oxygen in blood. My list of couriosity is great.

I embrace you being correct on this. I am excited about seeing your list of "municipal lab and get the lab data back for free in about a week". Please do not delay in your proof of me being wrong.
Do you have a Houston address?
Then here you go: https://www.houstontx.gov/health/Lab/documents/English_drinking-water-information.pdf

You seem to not be cognizant that my tax dollars support that lab and it is for city tax paying residents.

You have to go fetch the city authorized test bottles, deliver them yourself, show your water bill, and write them a $16 check. The $16 is only an admin fee, because private testing runs around $100 locally. The true lab cost burden comes from resident taxes and as such is only offered to verified local users. The test exists for those worried about their tap water but you can submit any sample that isn't obviously raw dirty water.

So you are going to need to contact your own municipality for this lab assistance. You just got bit by your own intended gotcha. You trying to dictate terms and chain of custody ignores the fact you haven't paid into our system. I've paid many thousands of municipal tax dollars for services like this. These are offered all around the nation for their local residents.

Atlanta: http://waterforlifeonline.com/water-testing-service/
Chicago: https://www.chicagowaterquality.org/verifyAccount#tf-home
Indianapolis: http://marionhealth.org/programs/population-health/public-health-laboratory/

Free water testing for residents of designated areas exist all over the nation. You don't get to dictate terms to people who voted and paid taxes into their municipal system. That falls to you where you live, not us where we are.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top