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I've been doing more reading than posting lately.
(okay, stop cheering losers! LOL)

With regards to my ILBE Pack, it's uses and what I want to use it for,
I've been trying to balance out some kind of permanent load and some
kind of extended load that just piggybacks onto it in case I ever did have
to bug out or split and never come home.

Like probably most ILBE owners, once I got it, I wanted to get the Assault
Pack also, but in reality, didn't really see a need for it in that I plan on getting
a USGI MOLLE II Assault Pack for a Day Pack and it was better for what I planned
for it AND I already had numerous accessories to put on it when I did get it.

But this morning, it hit me...The USMC ILBE Assault Pack would be the
perfect INCH Pack to add to my ILBE if SHTF. All I'd have to do is just
attach it and hit the road without a worry that I'd leave any vital component
behind. I'd have my main pack (The ILBE loaded to the gills with my
basic wilderness survival gear) and the Assault Pack can carry all those
items that I'll need/want in a TEOTWAWKI scenario that won't have to
be individually packed into my ILBE.

So, here's the challenge...
List items that you feel are in an INCH or bug-out situation "only" need.
(stuff that you wouldn't normally take just for camping)

Right now, I'm thinking that the following are not regularly needed items
when I head out into the stick to train-up, but that would make life much
easier if I did have to bug out (permanently or otherwise)...

  • Water Filter
  • Extensive FAK
  • Trapping Needs
  • Hygiene Kit (at least a year's worth)
  • More substantial cooking pot than just my GSI Glacier & USGI Mess Kit
  • Utility 8'X10' Tarp (not a 1.9D Nylon deal, but one of the heavier duty plastic kinds.
  • Roll of Bank Line
  • Well stocked Fishing Tackle Container
  • Roll of Wire
  • Roll of Duct Tape (Gorilla Tape)
  • Solar Panel Charging Station
  • Crank Emergency Radio
  • CB Radio
  • GPS
  • USB Stick or SD Card with personal information (I.D., medical needs/history, documents, etc...).
  • Tool Maintenance Kit (sharpeners, oil, etc...)
  • Initial batch of dried food until I can get hunting/trapping/fishing
  • Arms/Ammo (Glock, .22lr, possibly a 12Ga)

Mind you the Assault pack would just be a strict cargo bag to hold all this
gear until I reached a BOL. Once settled in, I'd then use it as a satellite
pack to head out from my main camp site. It doesn't have to have the
"essentials" in it, it doesn't have to have the 10C's...it just needs to get
all of my INCH/BOB gear out with me when I GOOD.

Please feel free to add to the list.

[Again, the purpose of the pack will be to store all my INCH items in one
place (as many as I can at least) so that when I do have to leave, it'll be
a worry-free transition and I can focus solely on the mission at hand. Sorry
I'm emphasizing it, but some folks seem to have problems with reading
comprehension and seem to begin to derail threads with their own concepts
of what any given OP is trying to communicate. :D: ]
 

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Second pair of boots and extra socks.
I know if I find myself heading out on foot with no intentions of returning I'll be taking an extra pair of boots, probably lightweight mid height hiking shoe.
 

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If the water filter breaks or cracks, I'd also throw in tablets. I like them instead of drops since they have no expiration and cant spill...
There is a product called Polar Pure. Iodine crystals that dissolve in water in a very controlled manner. You pour water in the little bottle, it desolves to a certain concentration, and you use the solution to treat your water. Fantastic, brilliant stuff, but unfortunately they went out of business...but, searching the Internet you can still find it in backstock. The little bottle is about the size of two tablet bottles, but can treat a few thousand gallons of water before used up.
 

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You could also sub a ham handheld for the crank radio and cb radio. It would probably be able to provide both functions in a smaller, lighter package? My Yeasu VX-7R is flat out small. You can receive just about any signal and transmit on a LOT with a few small mods.They also have a reduced transmit power AA battery back option.

Just a thought.
 

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So what is your theoretical INCH situation. Reason I ask is INCHing to the woods for forever will be quite different than than INCHing from your current home to find another like Katrina refugees did.
 

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Improvise Adapt Overcome!
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I'd put the INCH stuff in the big pack, and keep the smaller pack with some essentials for actual survival.

For example, you can stuff winter cloths in the INCH pack, but keep your 8 basic essentials in the patrol pack.
 

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What one man can do, another can do.

I think about this when I look at lists and ask myself, how have millions of Africans, South Americans, Indians, etc. managed to survive without the items on that list ... and could I? Yes I could, I just don't know how yet. So that's my evaluative filter, if that helps.

My bag always has my non-consumable base load (shelter, fire, water, cooking, fak) The only thing I'd expand is more of the consumables (food, meds, clothing).

On your nice to have list there are things I'd've kept in my primary bag, like water filter, microsd of documents. I don't value the ability to communicate or navigate electronically as much, and use very little in the way of batteries. But I do like to listen so the crank radio is nice. Also, If there are better replacements on this list for gear you already carry why not carry the better one?
 

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I think about this when I look at lists and ask myself, how have millions of Africans, South Americans, Indians, etc. managed to survive without the items on that list ... and could I? Yes I could, I just don't know how yet. So that's my evaluative filter, if that helps.
well, they lost millions in the process... to disease, drought, famine, wars, etc... for some of their climates, winter also wasn't an issue that much (India, parts of Central America, equatorial Africa, Australia, etc).

While, at the same time, they multiplied (and still do!) like crazy, so that increased their chances of survival and still does...
 

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-Vitamins
-Long term hunting and food gathering implements (rat traps, snares, maybe bow/arrow, etc)
-Salt
-Antibiotics
-Items that are capable of self-powering (wind up lights, etc)
-Large pot (dutch oven? pressure cooker? or even just a pan)
-Spares for critical items (such as firearms)

Packing for camping or even a short term emergency situation is one thing, but if I knew it was going to be months or longer I'd reassess what I'd take.

An interesting example can be found in the book "Tunnel in the Sky"; they go out for a short term survival exercise (expect 2-10 days) and end up stuck for years.
 

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Improvise Adapt Overcome!
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With regards to my ILBE Pack, it's uses and what I want to use it for,
I've been trying to balance out some kind of permanent load and some
kind of extended load that just piggybacks onto it in case I ever did have
to bug out or split and never come home.
This is not a bad idea. I am kind of sort of set up like this myself...except I have two pack stocked for different missions. My little pack is light though, and I do have a way to attach it to the big pack.

My big pack, is basically just more, of whats in the little pack, plus cold weather cloths, and food procurement gear.

Like probably most ILBE owners, once I got it, I wanted to get the Assault
Pack also, but in reality, didn't really see a need for it in that I plan on getting
a USGI MOLLE II Assault Pack for a Day Pack and it was better for what I planned
for it AND I already had numerous accessories to put on it when I did get it.
I already had a smaller pack that is about the size of the Assault pack for my CGP-90, so I did not get the one that goes with it. I just improvised attachments so my old pack, mounts to the CFP-90, the same way.

What I did do, however, was to get 2 external pouches to mount on the CFP-90 for some fast grab items. For example, I have TP, Rain Poncho, and my Map & Compass in those pouches. Those pouches do not really work well if I try to mount my little pack to it. They need to be removed.

But this morning, it hit me...The USMC ILBE Assault Pack would be the
perfect INCH Pack to add to my ILBE if SHTF. All I'd have to do is just
attach it and hit the road without a worry that I'd leave any vital component
behind. I'd have my main pack (The ILBE loaded to the gills with my
basic wilderness survival gear) and the Assault Pack can carry all those
items that I'll need/want in a TEOTWAWKI scenario that won't have to
be individually packed into my ILBE.
I see it as just the opposite. For a recreational wilderness survival mission, you can go much lighter. Even loaded up with my favorite luxuries, my small pack comes in at 45 pounds at the most. That completely coveres my 8 life support essentials, and my 4 luxuries (Shelter, insulation, cutting & tools, Water container/purification, fire, cordage, food/procurement and hygiene + Navigation, First Aid, Cook set/mess kit and pack grill/stove)

I'd use the assault pack for the recreational stuff. You will need the extra space in the big one for bulky winter clothing and cold weather gear. Also, you need gear that is going to last and be bullet proof. That generally is heavier than the ultralight counter parts (with exceptions of course, like Titanuim cook set vs stainless).


So, here's the challenge...
List items that you feel are in an INCH or bug-out situation "only" need.
(stuff that you wouldn't normally take just for camping)

Right now, I'm thinking that the following are not regularly needed items
when I head out into the stick to train-up, but that would make life much
easier if I did have to bug out (permanently or otherwise)...


  • [*]Water Filter
    I generally don't carry one myself...but I am crazy and drink out of streams all the time without purification. Not something I'd recommend to someone. Have some sort of purification ability at all times.


    [*]Extensive FAK
    My 45 pound load has my big FAK in it. However, that hs been repurposed recently to go in my big pack for INCHing.

    [*]Trapping Needs
    Agreed

    [*]Hygiene Kit (at least a year's worth)
    A year will be tough. What I did, is I used the same hygiene kit as always, just to get me through till I can improvise in the field. I have played with using wood ash. It seems to work for cloths and mess kit and stuff. Sort of like "Nature's Comet Cleanser"


    [*]More substantial cooking pot than just my GSI Glacier & USGI Mess Kit
    I want to go with the 2 person packable cook set from the same outfit that makes the 1 person set I have now. I have a store bough pack grill. To be honest though, that one is heavier, and takes up more room than the one I made, and I really don't need the extra capacity it offers. I will probably ditch it.


    [*]Utility 8'X10' Tarp (not a 1.9D Nylon deal, but one of the heavier duty plastic kinds.
    I would go with a 10 X 12 myself.

    [*]Roll of Bank Line
    I have the smaller roll, and want the #36 as well. Also, Mason line is strong stuff too, lighter, and way cheaper. I would keep a roll of that as well so you can use it in places that don't need the strength of Bank Line. If you are going INCHing, you need to conserve resources. I also carry other types of cordage for various needs, from traditional laundry line, to Jute twine.
    [*]Well stocked Fishing Tackle Container
    [*]Roll of Wire
    [*]Roll of Duct Tape (Gorilla Tape)
    [*]Solar Panel Charging Station
    [*]Crank Emergency Radio
    [*]CB Radio
    [*]GPS
    [*]USB Stick or SD Card with personal information (I.D., medical needs/history, documents, etc...).
    [*]Tool Maintenance Kit (sharpeners, oil, etc...)
    [*]Initial batch of dried food until I can get hunting/trapping/fishing
    [*]Arms/Ammo (Glock, .22lr, possibly a 12Ga)

This is all stuff i'd keep in the big pack.

Mind you the Assault pack would just be a strict cargo bag to hold all this
gear until I reached a BOL. Once settled in, I'd then use it as a satellite
pack to head out from my main camp site. It doesn't have to have the
"essentials" in it, it doesn't have to have the 10C's...it just needs to get
all of my INCH/BOB gear out with me when I GOOD.
Like I said above, I'd keep the essentials in the assault pack. That way you have a light, fast to go survival system ready at all times for whim, or reason. My Big pack is an ELS, with the intent of permanent Nomadic living after the world collapses. Other than training missions, i will probably never use it.

It really uses most of the same gear as my smaller pack (I am used to, and trust my time proven equipment). So for me, it's best to use the smaller pack for all the wilderness survival stuff, and keep the big pack for the INCH gear.

Please feel free to add to the list.
 

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well, they lost millions in the process... to disease, drought, famine, wars, etc... for some of their climates, winter also wasn't an issue that much (India, parts of Central America, equatorial Africa, Australia, etc).

While, at the same time, they multiplied (and still do!) like crazy, so that increased their chances of survival and still does...
I've lived in the 3rd world, actually, for several years. Your characterization is highly exaggerated. They're not nearly as backwards or inept as they are popularly portrayed. They know where to get fresh drinking water ... its when the 1st world pollutes the source that they run into trouble. They know how to start fires, catch and cook food, raise crops, manage wildlife and soil, all without technology. You talk about winter, let's talk about heat - how many Americans require conditioned air to survive a summer? And yet I've lived with folks for whom 100 is a cold day, and 130 is about time to knock off from work. And it does in fact get very cold in the desert, and in the mountains of Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Central/South America, and in the high sierra deserts.

They also do not breed like crazy as implied by your statement. Their conception rate is like the US in the 50's, which isn't crazy - it was the norm for all of humanity since the beginning to time. They have a higher infant mortality rate, but they also value all babies and don't kill the unborn, so its an apples to oranges comparison to our society. Each child born in the US today is artificially propped up to survival at every step along the way, a luxury they cannot afford. Take away our technology, and our infant mortality would be lower than theirs, and our replacement rate would be far lower than theirs, until we learned from them. It is a survival factor yes, but not one of sheer numbers.

So yes, I value what those in the 3rd world know. They woke up this morning without electricity, managed to drink clean water, eat adequate food, build a fire, and raise a family, all without anything on that list most likely.
 

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I've lived in the 3rd world, actually, for several years. Your characterization is highly exaggerated. They're not nearly as backwards or inept as they are popularly portrayed. They know where to get fresh drinking water ... its when the 1st world pollutes the source that they run into trouble. They know how to start fires, catch and cook food, raise crops, manage wildlife and soil, all without technology. You talk about winter, let's talk about heat - how many Americans require conditioned air to survive a summer? And yet I've lived with folks for whom 100 is a cold day, and 130 is about time to knock off from work. And it does in fact get very cold in the desert, and in the mountains of Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Central/South America, and in the high sierra deserts.

They also do not breed like crazy as implied by your statement. Their conception rate is like the US in the 50's, which isn't crazy - it was the norm for all of humanity since the beginning to time. They have a higher infant mortality rate, but they also value all babies and don't kill the unborn, so its an apples to oranges comparison to our society. Each child born in the US today is artificially propped up to survival at every step along the way, a luxury they cannot afford. Take away our technology, and our infant mortality would be lower than theirs, and our replacement rate would be far lower than theirs, until we learned from them. It is a survival factor yes, but not one of sheer numbers.

So yes, I value what those in the 3rd world know. They woke up this morning without electricity, managed to drink clean water, eat adequate food, build a fire, and raise a family, all without anything on that list most likely.
Never characterized the 3rd world as "inept"... I grew up in what used to be the "2nd world", so I know a thing or two about somewhat long lines for essentials, a literal fight for survival with tanks in the strees, and yes, the complete lack of air conditioners :) I only got one as an adult living in the States... :thumb:

Yes, I'm aware of dramatic differences in temperature in desert and mountainous environments... However, there are places which experience fairly constant temperate conditions year round (current weather in Bombay: 73F). And they seem to be mostly in 3rd world countries and that certainly helps the situation IMO. Anyway, my overall point was to illustrate that just because peoples such as modern Australasians or Angolans or South Indians/Sri Lankans or etc., are alive, does not mean that they're thriving in the modern sense of the word. And many are in fact alive because of the assistance that the 1st world you're so critical of is providing to them in the form of funding NGO's and vaccinations.

Regarding your allusion to a b o r t i o n - there has always been widespread infanticide in the 3rd world, because of both tribal, cultural, and "economic" considerations... doesn't make our "Western" legal a b o r t i o n epidemic justified, but it doesn't make them more righteous than us either (kind of off topic, why is the "A word" asterisked out on this site?!)

My point was also to illustrate that if a society, despite not having the advantages of a 1st world country in the form of technology and vaccines and medical advancement, procreates in uncontrolled and downright irresponsible numbers, it naturally increases it's number of descendants, resulting in that society being alive today, despite experiencing tremendous losses to things that 1st world countries are fairly immune to. To that end, regarding procreation, here is an interesting quote from a report "prepared for the Division of Family Health, The World Health Organization, Geneva, Switzerland": "Young women in the third world spend almost three-fourths of their prime time of life in an almost continuous state of pregnancy and lactation." And, from the "footage" I've seen, it's pretty true.
 
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