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Diamond Dog
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Howdy all, I recently came into some money and I decided it was time to throw it down and finally purchase a quality ruck. now, I've searched the forums and on google and I absolutely cannot find a pack that fits me, My current idea is to buy a Maxpedition Vulture II, but I ain't sure yet.

Basically I would be using this pack as an extreme bug out bag and by extreme I mean TEOTWAWKI bag, I don't plan on buggin' out.. bug if i have to that means i ain't got a home anymore for whatever reason. In my bag currently I generally carry things that one would need to essentially stay alive at a base level of living. Shelter, firemaking supplies, sleeping bag, ways to stay dry, change of clothes, tools such as a knife, folding saw, and an axe, beans, bullets, and bandaids. things that allow me to sustain myself in the wilderness for quite some time, I carry water aswell of course.

I looked at the Vulture II because #1 it has PALS webbing which allows me to attach an abundance of MOLLE or ALICE pouches that I already own to it, and #2 it can carry quite a bit of weight (around 30 lbs) comfortably. However I am a complete noob to packs, and I am unsure if I'd be better off going with a frameless pack, an internal frame pack, or an external frame pack? I only PLAN on carrying 30 to 40 lbs as I try to stay lightweight and essential.

Also price is a concern, I will not pay more than 200$ for a pack.. which is why the vulture seems ideal. Where it's made isn't a concern to me, only if it's a quality pack that won't explode at the seams when I'm on the move.

Thanks for any input you may have.
 

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Sam Adams was right....
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9,381 Posts
Howdy all, I recently came into some money and I decided it was time to throw it down and finally purchase a quality ruck. now, I've searched the forums and on google and I absolutely cannot find a pack that fits me, My current idea is to buy a Maxpedition Vulture II, but I ain't sure yet.

Basically I would be using this pack as an extreme bug out bag and by extreme I mean TEOTWAWKI bag, I don't plan on buggin' out.. bug if i have to that means i ain't got a home anymore for whatever reason. In my bag currently I generally carry things that one would need to essentially stay alive at a base level of living. Shelter, firemaking supplies, sleeping bag, ways to stay dry, change of clothes, tools such as a knife, folding saw, and an axe, beans, bullets, and bandaids. things that allow me to sustain myself in the wilderness for quite some time, I carry water aswell of course.

I looked at the Vulture II because #1 it has PALS webbing which allows me to attach an abundance of MOLLE or ALICE pouches that I already own to it, and #2 it can carry quite a bit of weight (around 30 lbs) comfortably. However I am a complete noob to packs, and I am unsure if I'd be better off going with a frameless pack, an internal frame pack, or an external frame pack? I only PLAN on carrying 30 to 40 lbs as I try to stay lightweight and essential.

Also price is a concern, I will not pay more than 200$ for a pack.. which is why the vulture seems ideal. Where it's made isn't a concern to me, only if it's a quality pack that won't explode at the seams when I'm on the move.

Thanks for any input you may have.
Hey Mittelmorder

Sounds like yer really taking about an INCH bag (I'm Never Coming Home). I started with a BOB... but thats a 72hr, "getting back home, or getting to yer BOL" pack. INCH is what you're describing.

The argument for/against internal vs. external is endless.. really its all about comfort... for the weight your are talking and internal frame will serve you well. External frame will afford you the ability to carry additional weight if necessary.

Before you even start looking at rucks I'd suggest you first define your MOU (Method Of Use). You'd mentioned you only plan on carrying 30-40 lbs because you want to try and stay "lightweight and essential". For a BOB this is actually a good practice. For an INCH bag, in a world where "if you need it, you better carry it", it might not be. You'll have to decide that for yourself.

I had this same dilemna... My MOU was

* INCH bag (and all that entails in contents requirements)
* Carry folding or short length rifle(s) in a concealed manner.

I settled on an Eberlestock tactical bag to start.. and I wound up getting a used Phantom ruck on ebay for less than $200. Eventually I'd like to get the Terminator bag, which (after having the Phantom) I find better suits my MOU.

Here's a link if you want to see: http://www.eberlestock.com/Phantom Backpack.htm

The pack is internal framed... comfortable as a couch..4500 ci with the attached rifle scabbard. I simply fold the bottom part of the scabbard up and the rifle bay is fully hidden. The pack also has pockets for 2 - 3 liter water kits. It's coyote brown, and tactical looking... and "civilian camo" is something to be considered... and a complete subject on its own.. I'd recommend you do some research in that area too. One can "civie up" a pack to a point, but a tactical pack is gonna be obvious in a sea of REI packs... Again, you'll have to decide that for yourself.

I also have an old Kelty Super Tioga external frame pack that was my original INCH. The Tioga is still a great pack, 4500 cu capacity... and can be had pretty cheap on Craigslist, usually for less than $50. It's just older technology.

As I mentioned, really dig into your MOU. It makes all the difference.

Good Luck!
 
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Diamond Dog
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1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hey Mittelmorder

Sounds like yer really taking about an INCH bag (I'm Never Coming Home). I started with a BOB... but thats a 72hr, "getting back home, or getting to yer BOL" pack. INCH is what you're describing.

The argument for/against internal vs. external is endless.. really its all about comfort... for the weight your are talking and internal frame will serve you well. External frame will afford you the ability to carry additional weight if necessary.

Before you even start looking at rucks I'd suggest you first define your MOU (Method Of Use). You'd mentioned you only plan on carrying 30-40 lbs because you want to try and stay "lightweight and essential". For a BOB this is actually a good practice. For an INCH bag, in a world where "if you need it, you better carry it", it might not be. You'll have to decide that for yourself.

I had this same dilemna... My MOU was

* INCH bag (and all that entails in contents requirements)
* Carry folding or short length rifle(s) in a concealed manner.

I settled on an Eberlestock tactical bag to start.. and I wound up getting a used Phantom ruck on ebay for less than $200. Eventually I'd like to get the Terminator bag, which (after having the Phantom) I find better suits my MOU.

Here's a link if you want to see: http://www.eberlestock.com/Phantom Backpack.htm

The pack is internal framed... comfortable as a couch..4500 ci with the attached rifle scabbard. I simply fold the bottom part of the scabbard up and the rifle bay is fully hidden. The pack also has pockets for 2 - 3 liter water kits. It's coyote brown, and tactical looking... and "civilian camo" is something to be considered... and a complete subject on its own.. I'd recommend you do some research in that area too. One can "civie up" a pack to a point, but a tactical pack is gonna be obvious in a sea of REI packs... Again, you'll have to decide that for yourself.

I also have an old Kelty Super Tioga external frame pack that was my original INCH. The Tioga is still a great pack, 4500 cu capacity... and can be had pretty cheap on Craigslist, usually for less than $50. It's just older technology.

As I mentioned, really dig into your MOU. It makes all the difference.

Good Luck!
I really appreciate all the insight you have offered, and yes my bag is most certainly an INCH kit. I prefer military bags to civvie bags but that's just me, i rather have the darker earthier camo'd colors than bright oranges and blues, and the modular ability is nice too... I'll take a look around for cheaper priced Eberlestock bags.

Note: I just checked out the phantom.. man, i'm diggin' it, price is pretty high though. Does it even have a frame? What is the benefit of a frame, exactly? I never noticed a difference when i would carry an alice external frame ruck vs say, a non framed rock. I don't typically pack everything and the kitchen sink, just what is required to survive comfortably.

The Eberlestock halftrack seems nice and big, can carry a rifle/shotgun with the addon thingy. (which is a plus) and doesnt look like it'd break the bank.. plus it has an internal frame. My MOU/POU for an INCH situation would be to simply grab my pack, run to my designated BOL, and then deploy other systems from there.. such as a vest, comms, etc. Don't want to spend alot of time getting **** on.. just grab the bag and run. I like 3000+ cu inches and an internal frame.. that idea sits well with me.

I'm on the eberlestock website, do all their packs have frames? Cause i notice that it says on most of the smaller packs that they have frames, while the 5000+ cu inch ones it doesnt say if they have one or not. Comfort is a major issue to me.
 

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Veteran 11BC2/EOD
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2,020 Posts
This is going to scramble your budget

I recently ordered a Kifaru MMR and Express. The Express piggy backs on the MMR and together loaded they weigh almost 100 lbs. These are the finest load carrying pieces of equipment Ive ever had the pleasure of carrying. I had as a trial weight in the MMR 2, 45lb plates and a 25lb plate. Walked 3 miles on roads and trails. Life was good, the pack carries the load on the long bones of the hip, not the back and shoulders. I repacked my BOB in the express, and my long term pack gear went in the MMR. Only regret I have is I didnt get the EMR , which is slightly larger. With rifle case strapped to the MMR, and the Express on the back it looks like it moves by itself, all anyone can see is legs under it. I can not believe I wasted my time and my back for so many years.

Highly recommend Kifaru. Definitely going to be on the list for my son as a pack for a lifetimes use.
 

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Diamond Dog
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1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
This is going to scramble your budget

I recently ordered a Kifaru MMR and Express. The Express piggy backs on the MMR and together loaded they weigh almost 100 lbs. These are the finest load carrying pieces of equipment Ive ever had the pleasure of carrying. I had as a trial weight in the MMR 2, 45lb plates and a 25lb plate. Walked 3 miles on roads and trails. Life was good, the pack carries the load on the long bones of the hip, not the back and shoulders. I repacked my BOB in the express, and my long term pack gear went in the MMR. Only regret I have is I didnt get the EMR , which is slightly larger. With rifle case strapped to the MMR, and the Express on the back it looks like it moves by itself, all anyone can see is legs under it. I can not believe I wasted my time and my back for so many years.

Highly recommend Kifaru. Definitely going to be on the list for my son as a pack for a lifetimes use.
I've looked at Kifaru.. waaay too expensive for me, I can barely scrape the money together for an Eberlestock pack however... man this is going to be difficult.
 

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Get Lost! May I?
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165 Posts
Not sure exactly how you feel on mil surplus, but I will get my order delivered tomorrow from loadup.com

They have the MOLLE II Rucksack with frame, sleep system carrier, and 2 sustainment pouches all in Woodland for $60. armygear.net has them in desert minus the sustainment pouches for $50, add the sustainment pouches and it's the same price.

The one from loadup only comes with a 2nd Generation frame which is supposedly not as strong as the 4th Generation frame which comes on the one from armygear.
 

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Diamond Dog
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1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I like milsurp, but not for a pack.. i'd prefer a new/unused pack to be honest.

For now i'm liking eberlestock, and i ain't afraid to drop the money if it's a pack that will last me a lifetime.. i'm sick of buying cheapo packs anyway. I'm narrowing down which packs i like from them by going with my 3000+ cu inch, internal framed rule.. I'm liking the Phantom, Terminator, and Operator.

It's just such a hard decision to make.
 

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Sam Adams was right....
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9,381 Posts
hey Mittleorder...

My Phantom was literally brand new... got it on ebay... all of the eberlestock packs are internal frame.. which means there's some sort of rigid material sewn into the pack itself, sometimes its removable and bendable to adjust for different back contours.

Internal frame packs sit right on your back, no gap... and because of that make maneuvering much easier, but also may heat up your back faster because there is no gap as there is with externally framed packs.

External frames are just that... old-school tube frames, or something similar. Usually with external frame packs you can carry more, but some feel because the external frame keeps the pack away from your back, that it makes the pack a bit less easy to maneuver in.

Typically over 60lbs it seems the recommendation moves towards externally framed packs... but since you are at 30-40 lbs you'll prolly do fine with an internal frame... The best thing for you do to is try both if you can.

I've rarely ever read a review on Eberlestock, Kifaru, Mystery Ranch packs that wasn't positive.. they are well designed and made systems.
 

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Diamond Dog
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1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
hey Mittleorder...

My Phantom was literally brand new... got it on ebay... all of the eberlestock packs are internal frame.. which means there's some sort of rigid material sewn into the pack itself, sometimes its removable and bendable to adjust for different back contours.

Internal frame packs sit right on your back, no gap... and because of that make maneuvering much easier, but also may heat up your back faster because there is no gap as there is with externally framed packs.

External frames are just that... old-school tube frames, or something similar. Usually with external frame packs you can carry more, but some feel because the external frame keeps the pack away from your back, that it makes the pack a bit less easy to maneuver in.

Typically over 60lbs it seems the recommendation moves towards externally framed packs... but since you are at 30-40 lbs you'll prolly do fine with an internal frame... The best thing for you do to is try both if you can.

I've rarely ever read a review on Eberlestock, Kifaru, Mystery Ranch packs that wasn't positive.. they are well designed and made systems.
I've thought about what scenario i would be in if i had to use my INCH kit, and i thought about the things i may carry, or find out there that i may need to pick up... I'm torn between the Phantom, and the Operator or Terminator.. I like the huge capacity of the latter two, but the phantom has a nice price, but i figure if i'm spending this much on a pack another 50$ or so isn't a big deal.
 

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Diamond Dog
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1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·

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Diamond Dog
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1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
ATTN: I just ordered an Eberlestock Operator.. got 60$ off with a coupon which was nice, i decided it was the best for me. Thanks for all your help guys.
 

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Sam Adams was right....
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9,381 Posts
Awesome Mittelorder... make sure you post pics!
 

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Diamond Dog
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1,504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Awesome Mittelorder... make sure you post pics!
I will. I admit it was quite a bit of money to drop on a ruck and even others told me I was crazy for that, but hell.. I see an investment, a backpack i'll most likely never have to replace and that i can use for everything!

Thanks fer yer' help.
 
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Veteran 11BC2/EOD
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I will. I admit it was quite a bit of money to drop on a ruck and even others told me I was crazy for that, but hell.. I see an investment, a backpack i'll most likely never have to replace and that i can use for everything!

Thanks fer yer' help.
You are either playing for all the marbles, or you are just playing. Its that simple. Tell your buddies to get stuffed, or wait untill their made in china gear fails and sort through what you want yourself:)
 

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Sam Adams was right....
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9,381 Posts
You are either playing for all the marbles, or you are just playing. Its that simple. Tell your buddies to get stuffed, or wait untill their made in china gear fails and sort through what you want yourself:)
Yup!! :thumb:
 
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Diamond Dog
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
You are either playing for all the marbles, or you are just playing. Its that simple. Tell your buddies to get stuffed, or wait untill their made in china gear fails and sort through what you want yourself:)
Exactly! :D: When i get it i'll make a new thread with pics. I figured the operator was the best choice because i can just cinch the pack down if i aint using space.
 
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