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Discussion Starter #1
I'm shifting my focus from preparing for shtf to preparing for the stuff piling up around my doorstep. Meaning a more gradual decline, no doubt punctuated by some scary events, into a decade long economic depression with perhaps 15-20% unemployment, 10-15% inflation, and periodic times that will require a great deal of self sufficiency.

The difference in how i prepare? Tough to define but here are some examples:

Instead of getting that 2nd 1,000 rnds of 7.62 get a hand operated grain mill.

Instead of 6 more months of food stashed away, a stove-top canner and 500 more jars.

Instead of stashing an additional 3 SKS's & 1,000 rnds of ammo at the cabin, purchase an IR security system for the house.

Personally, i'm fortunate enough to be in a position to pretty quickly pay off all debt except for my mortgage and i'm going to. I want every penny coming in to go to essentials, not the big screen i financed last year.

I still have the ability to bug out should i need to, but instead of staying there permanently, i'll visit 3x per week to tend the garden, do canning, gather eggs, etc. I still have the ability of defend myself, but instead of buying SKS's for my group i'm more inclined to buy each one a compact handgun & conceal holster for necessary trips to dangerous locations.

In short, i'm still doing the same things, just shifting the focus.

You get the idea.

Peace,
Antiacus
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Why do you have to buy them anything? Why don't they buy it for themselves?
My "group" is my extended family. We all pitch in in different ways and in scope commensurate with our abilities. I didn't spend a dime on the chicken house, or for that matter garden (although i have a sealed can of millenium non-hybrid seeds should we need them).

I would rather my mom buy the canning stuff and leave the weapons to me :)
 

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Regarding the selection of handguns over SKS's, I can tell you from my experiance that you can greatly reduce the chance of having to actually firing the weapon if it is scary looking and able to be seen from a distance. You have to be mindful that most of the "bad" people will not be interested in a firefight if at all avoidable. I intend on getting an AR-15 soon, but I will most likly modify several ruger 10-22's for the fam. Just a thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I definitely agree cousin casper. The mere presence of a weapon is a huge deterrent. In the situation i'm envisioning it may be a big mistake, however, to carry openly.

On the property, yes. There will always be a long gun within fairly close reach.

It's very easy to imagine, however, cities banning the carry of weapons in a major depression that has crime rates tripling & quadrupling across the board. It will be necessary when going to markets, doing business, going to & from work (god willing), etc, to carry concealed.

Check out the thread in this forum on the 2001 Argentina collapse to get what i believe is a very good idea for what we could be in store for. http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=26074&highlight=argentina
 

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At one point in the 1930s depression, unemployment reached 30% in the cities.

I think your making a good decision here, the government seems to be trying to slow this down. Hopefully giving folks time to adjust so that things don't just start collapsing causing total chaos.
 

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My thoughts are that each group should have specialized people for traveling into and out of urban areas out of absolute nessecity (such as trade/locaton of speciality items/information gathering). Fred Lee is absolutly right. Now is the time to gather as much information as you can and convert it to hard copies if possible. Things may not break into total choas, but you can't afford to not be prepared. I also think that stockpiling ammo and feeding yourself are inseperable. I'm not sure where you live, slingblade (not trying to be condesending) but I have lived in innercity areas my entire life (until I wised up last feb.) Growing and storing food is only a small part of feeding yourself. They will flow out of populated places looking for food. Count on that. They are armed already and are smarted than you think. Imagine all the money from the drug trade in the hands of Ghetto superstars who are currently hyper-violet in times of peace and comfort. Add hunger pains and masses of innercity youth.......well, it's not good. Here's what the average rural survivalist needs to know; the advantage of the migrating city thug is the insane propensity for violence. While most of us look at violence as something to only be applied as a last resort, some city dwellers utilize violence as a means to achieve social status, settle petty debts and build self worth. They are much less hesitant to pull the trigger. Many of you may believe that this is not true, but I can read from many of your post that most of you are people of moral fabric. Your hesitation will be rooted in your God given sense of the value of life. Many inner city folk have been unwittingly training for the upcoming upheaval their whole lives. After the food stamp issue is resolved, most of their lives will not change as much as yours will. I also ask you to consider the Hezbollah factor. There power is supplied by there ability to meet the social and medical needs of an impoverished population. Do not think that similar (most likely not related to Islam) groups will not spring up everywhere. These groups will be strong and massive. And they will attempt to procure farmland and natural resources from the rural community. They will be seen as heros in the urban community. Rural folk will be viewed as hording food from starving city children. This storm has brewing for 20 years strong.
In summary, do not be fooled into believing that it will be disorganized groups of hip hop thugs flowing down the interstates with broken firing pin .25's. Leaders will rise up and organize the hungry masses. It will not be enough to merely blockade the road with a dozen or so good old boys.
I'm not saying that this will happen soon or at all. But if things to collapse, keep these things in mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Excellent post cousin casper, thanks. I'm hoping that we do better than that, but your scenario is not inconceivable.
 

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My thoughts are that each group should have specialized people for traveling into and out of urban areas out of absolute nessecity (such as trade/locaton of speciality items/information gathering). Fred Lee is absolutly right. Now is the time to gather as much information as you can and convert it to hard copies if possible. Things may not break into total choas, but you can't afford to not be prepared. I also think that stockpiling ammo and feeding yourself are inseperable. I'm not sure where you live, slingblade (not trying to be condesending) but I have lived in innercity areas my entire life (until I wised up last feb.) Growing and storing food is only a small part of feeding yourself. They will flow out of populated places looking for food. Count on that. They are armed already and are smarted than you think. Imagine all the money from the drug trade in the hands of Ghetto superstars who are currently hyper-violet in times of peace and comfort. Add hunger pains and masses of innercity youth.......well, it's not good. Here's what the average rural survivalist needs to know; the advantage of the migrating city thug is the insane propensity for violence. While most of us look at violence as something to only be applied as a last resort, some city dwellers utilize violence as a means to achieve social status, settle petty debts and build self worth. They are much less hesitant to pull the trigger. Many of you may believe that this is not true, but I can read from many of your post that most of you are people of moral fabric. Your hesitation will be rooted in your God given sense of the value of life. Many inner city folk have been unwittingly training for the upcoming upheaval their whole lives. After the food stamp issue is resolved, most of their lives will not change as much as yours will. I also ask you to consider the Hezbollah factor. There power is supplied by there ability to meet the social and medical needs of an impoverished population. Do not think that similar (most likely not related to Islam) groups will not spring up everywhere. These groups will be strong and massive. And they will attempt to procure farmland and natural resources from the rural community. They will be seen as heros in the urban community. Rural folk will be viewed as hording food from starving city children. This storm has brewing for 20 years strong.
In summary, do not be fooled into believing that it will be disorganized groups of hip hop thugs flowing down the interstates with broken firing pin .25's. Leaders will rise up and organize the hungry masses. It will not be enough to merely blockade the road with a dozen or so good old boys.
I'm not saying that this will happen soon or at all. But if things to collapse, keep these things in mind.
This is such valuable advice, and a look into the actual scene that I think it may be beyond what many of the rural folk have even considered. Yes they will collect their remaining fuel and use it for raiding missions. The ones who bring food back will be heroes, even if they have upped their beliefs to Murder 2.0 Kill all and take all.

You may end up hiding under your house as crowds loot through it and stomp around above you.
 

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cousin casper thats good advice everybody should be ready for that situation.
but just a add on.
I think before we get that bad our goverment would have to totaly fall. that means even the military on the street would have to be weaker then the getto thugs. you got to admit if things get chaotic on the streets and things fall apart, the first thing that will most likely happen in marshal law, or whatever you want to call it, military on the streets, and curfews and etc... dont think our military or people like me will let the getto thugs take over. I beleive they will be to busy killing each other anyway for territory drugs, money respect and the usual, and I know i can sit on the edge of the city and sniper the powerfull ones, or go smack dab in the middle, I dont mind I ve lived in the getto my hole life, except when i was little. ( but if we get that week you might also want to worry about some red dawn type stuff shtf shtf) George Washington did say the only way america will fall will be from the inside out. not saying it couldnt happen, but sounds like to much getto movies to me, in reality they wouldnt last.
 

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Spartakis,

I offer a different perspective regarding military intervention and local police forces. Here's the catch 22, if things get to the point of needing military intervention on the street (check the Oct. 1st deployment of the first ever unit to be assigned to qwell civil disobiendence in the US), you can assume that you are facing a situation where all moral men will face a situation where protection of family (children, wives, parents, sisters) will rise quickly to the top of their priority list. So I ask you, can you safely assume that these police and military men (God bless them) will hold their duties to there assigned positions before assuming immeadiate proximity to there families for reasons of safety and preservation. I can imagine that even the ones who intially hold to there duty will see enough on the battlefield to quickly cause them to run to protcet their loves one. I am not a military man, so any of you who are and are reading this, please give me you perspective. I worked with gang members and juvenile crack dealers for 2 years in the city, I would repeated remind them that they were no match for the police (especially SWAT). What scares me is the mental fatigue that will seize our military through the likes of collateral damage and "gray" adversaries. To all you military folk out there; What would you do when you see ex-school teachers and ex-college kids looting the wal-mart? Honest question. Check out the recent food riots in Haiti and similar countries. Fire fights over dumpster scraps. The difference between our service men and women is that, I believe, they have a much higher level of moral aptitude than the average 3rd world military thug. I see mass insurrection of military folks after the first instance of "qwelling civil disobiendence" turns bloody.
Another point is, relating to your red dawn comment, if there is trouble abroad and trouble at home, where are all these infantry soilders going to come from? If you draft, you pull out a large percentage of the "good" men out of the genral population, leaving our women and children swimming to a dangerously high propoprtion of "bad" men. If you depend on voluntary enrollment, well you see how that is working now. If you learned anything from last nights debate it's that this is not a country unified, it is a country entertained by dramatics and sin, kept at bay through welfare, materialism and a blinding media wheel that does not stand still long enough to be exposed for the circus it is.
Regarding "too much ghetto movies", I hope your right. I think we will know when they cut food stamps and welfare payments. I did deal with some of the worst, so maybe my perspective is skewed. But I honestly believe this. So much that I moved into Amish country after 28 years of city living. The bottom is going to fall out in the cities. I'll give you some homework. Pick any major city. Check the bureau of criminal statistics. Match it up to local news reports. Ask yourself why the media is not covering the whole story.
 

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Agreed. A "Kent State" in this generation would be a very bad thing. The only chance the govt or military has is not to anger the populace, or they are toast.

Mass walk offs would be likely. Shedding the uniform to stay safe in the crowds.
 

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I understand where you are coming from, but what Iam saying is just thank about how bad it would have to be for that to happen. your going from shtf to Armagadon. Trust me I know some of the worst, I could tell you stories but I would rather not. I also know military men and, thier familys live on base and are protected. and they would do what they voluntied and signed up to do, protect thier country. the gettos would burn them selves down. and I would help if needed. And if it ever got to the point where the military men did not do thier duty then stuff would be bad but, I dont think that will happen with out a serious war inside the usa and trust me they would still be fighting somewhere. One good old boy with a rifle could cause alot of damage and possiable pull a rambo on a hole getto. Not trying to say it couldnt happen, but from what Iam getting is instid of or military ( or NRA and people like me that study the art of war) haveing control of our country it will be an buch of getto super stars. I highly doubt thats possiable, but thats just my 2cents.
 

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Good thread, tho I think country folk may be a tougher than they let on. I thought your spin on country folks being viewed as the bad guy by innercity folk was intriguing.
Peter
 
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