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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If U sufer from Anxiety, depression and suicide ideas & went to ER what would happen?

Ok, I am concerned with how our medica/psychiatic system works. I have heard this story told time and time again and it scares me to death because I know there are a lot of people out there who suffer from anxiety and depression and possibly suicidal thoughts.

So, some people that I know went to ER after feeling that they were on the edge and just about ready to go over. Once in the ER they were basically prisoners until the medical staff decided it was alright for them to leave. They were told that they were drug or alcohol addicts or that they suffered from some other similar affliction. This happened to me as well. I went in after not having slept for 72+ hours due to extreme anxiety (loss of job, savings, girlfriend, etc) and had my first suicidal feelings, so I was really scared and decided to go to ER. Well from there I was treated like a prisoner ( in Min security) but still a prisoner.

While in lock up, I had to take classes that brainwash that "no one here is wrong or bad", and I would venture a guess that this was very wrong. They would drum in the fact that medication was the only thing that could help us. They were putting everyone on the same medication no matter what they were suffering from. This drug is/was Seroquel. I heard everyone repeat a similar story to me, that there was no treatment just drug infusions when what most of these people needed was psychotherapy, group therapy, someone to talk to to see that they weren't alone. Many of those people had concerns quite similar to the concerns of those here on this board. They felt a sinking feeling about this country, some were religious, some enviornmental, but all felt that they were lied to by the news and government, so they were drugged and labeled "schizophrenic", bipolar or whatever which would discredit them in the future.

We found that there was no one who had our side and many of use felt that there were "plants" within the patient base, meaning these people were working for the doctors and informing on us. Whether this is/was true or not is a whole different story but is very important to know for sure.

When in my mid 20's I started to voice opinions that maybe our world wasn't as it seemed and that the "good" we Americans were doing in 3rd world countries wasn't really "good". I don't think making people reliant on 1st world resources and products is a good thing - giving them the means to provide for themselves, or to maximize their current processes, THAT is GOOD. When I voiced these opinions I was rewarded with a higher dosage of meds or even an addition of a new medication.

All of this has made me realize that if anything is going to make this country better it is going to be done by the people, working in small groups at a local level - being ever vigilant when it comes to accepting the "party line" from the FDA, DEA, AMA, ADA, EPA, DCNR, etc. Less is more, make the most f what you have, don't waste time on the superficial and try to make some solid, long-lasting friendships.

I'm sorry for the direction this thread went as it was difficult to accurately convey the experience I had. I felt as though the police were a part of the medical system and these psychiatrists are playing god (nothing new there from what I've heard)

Is there any way to refuse pharmecuetical medictions and only accept ancient herbal extracts or cures of that nature?
 

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The main reason that you arent allowed to leave until they beleive you are somewhat better is that you can count on the fact that if they did let someone leave early and then killed them selfs there family might sue. Might not seem right but hospitals have to cover thier butts as well. As for the rest, I have nothing for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I guess one of the hardest points to make was that they have one tool for the job and it is a sledgehammer. They pump people full of VERY POTENT medications, some with extremely horrible side effects that can be life long - INSTEAD of psychotherapy and counseling.

I can understand them keeping you until they think you are not a threat to yourself or anyone else, that is not the problem. The issue is the methods they use to "make you better". It has turned into some evil Orwellian nightmare where the doctors and pharma cause disease instead of cure it.

I have seen the effects of these meds up close in over 200+ people and they are NASTY! Instead of showing these people love and working on their personal skills they just give them a toxic medication. I can only say that I hope these doctors get the same treatment when the veil is lifted.
 

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Garbage Collector
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They can do an emergency involuntary committment if they feel you are a threat to yourself and/or others. It can be either short term for observation or longer term for treatment if the conditions are severe enough.

If you tell them you want to kill yourself you are going to be a guest for a little while and probably have a cop sitting outside the door to the room so you don't leave or harm self/others.
 

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^ What he said.
 

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Not only that but on the 4473 you would have to answer yes to to question about mental illness.
This should be of interest to all vets that have been diagnosed with PTSD. The anti gun croud has already been bringing this one up.
 

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Realist
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Here in Florida it is called a Baker Act. I routinely see the teenagers I work with placed on it if they express suicidal ideations. My experience is that it can be very helpful for the kid and the family, but here once they are Baker Acted they undergo lots of therapy (group and individual, sometimes family). It is a max of 72 hours without going to court and a judge requireing involuntary commitment. The idea is to stabilize someone who has expressed a desire to hurt themselves and connect them to outpatient care. Additionally, there are specific criteria that must be followed to Baker Act someone. Just having suicidal thoughts is not enough here in Florida. You have to have a plan and the means to carry out the plan.
 

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OK. Listen here for a minute.

You had not slept for 72 hours, you say. Do you think that there might have been a physical reason for you to be having suicidal thoughts? I do , because military tests have shown that after 3 days without sleep people start to hallucinate and their thoughts get strange.

Seroquel makes you sleepy. Very much so. For you it was a good choice of meds. I do not know about the other patients: I have not met them.

As I recall, patients have the right to refuse meds, as long as they are over 18. However, depending on which state you are in, you can be held for observation for 1-3 days, if they think that you are a danger to yourself or others. I do *NOT* know what the medication regulations are if you are in such a hold.

And, people in hospitals tend to be in a crisis state. You can talk to someone in a crisis state, but will they hear you? Think about what you say? Folks in psych hospitals tend to need more than counseling: if that was all that was needed they would be discharged.

Lastly, there is a famous od movie out there called "One Flew Over the Cukcoo's Nest", which spoke of the bad old days of the mental hospitals. Back then, if you signed yourself in they might not let you out for months or years. There was such an outrage about this that the laws were changed, and most of the patientsd were discharged. A great many of them ended up on the streets and homeless and without meds, which was not really any improvement.

My great grandmother was confined to a mental hospital all of her life. She was from a prominant family and she had an out of wedlock child. My Grandmother looked her up and visited her, but did not say that she was her daughter. It was a very different time, then, and the laws were very different.

To put things in a nutshell: law change, and they vary from state to state.

Yes, most patients can refuse meds.

No, most people hospitalized need more than someone to talk to or they would have been discharged: the USUAL is to give them a med, see if they respond favorably, and then change the meds further *IF* it is indicated. Mind, patients might ALSO need somebody to talk to, but if they are hospitalized it is because they are in a crisis state such as having hallucinations or having suicidal thoughts with a plan to carry them out. Otherwise they are not admitted.

Lastly, in MOST states, if you say that you are a danger to yourself or somebody else they CAN hold you against your will FOR OBSERVATION, the length of time is determined by your state but it is never for very long. This law used to be different but it has changed after a public outcry.
 

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I guess one of the hardest points to make was that they have one tool for the job and it is a sledgehammer. They pump people full of VERY POTENT medications, some with extremely horrible side effects that can be life long - INSTEAD of psychotherapy and counseling.
Yes, the meds are very potent.

Only a few meds MIGHT have life long effects, and one of the reasons for wanting the patients to stay is so that the staff can watch like a hawk for signs of those side effects, so that the med can be stopped before permanat harm is done.

Lastly, meds are not INSTEAD of counseling. Every hospital worth its license gives counseling. The idea is to slow the racing thoughts (or whatever) so that counseling can be listened to. It is a 2 pronged approach, because by the time a patient hits the hospital they are in very bad shape. If it were not so, then they would not be admitted at all.

There is insanity in my husbands family. If they are unstable enough to be hospitalized then they are also unstable enough to not be able to focus or make sense of what a counselor is saying. AFTER the racing thoughts have slowed down or AFTER the hallucinations have stopped, THEN they can make sense of what the counselor is saying.

Not before.
 

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Welcome to the world I have been living in for the past 15 years. I am lucky enough to have insurance, but of course insurance covers NONE of the cost associated with any mental health issues. Now, if you are a druggie and want to go to rehab thats a different story. People standing in line to get you on "their" program. (usually involves Jesus) Just from your profile I can guess you are a man, and since you said your problems started with a woman, an unmarried man. I am also guessing you do not have full time custody of any children. You wouldn't think that makes a difference but I have found that it does. If you aren't a breeder contributing to society, the mental health community could care less. My ex works in the metal health system, he told me they don't have the funds to treat the people, with "simple" mental disorders or even those who want to commit suicide, they have to deal first with the people who want to kill someone else. Going to the ER is an expensive waste of time. It might make you feel better temporarily, in trying to seek help, but in the end you will feel worse because of the way the people who are suppose to help, treat you. If you aren't on a 72 hour observe or committed against your will, you certainly have the right to refuse any and all medications. Worse than having the meds, is to suddenly find yourself without them and no way to get more. Detox is worse than hell. I wish I had some answers, I don't, I still struggle with this question every day. I use my "manic" days to prepare for the other days. Then I just get through those any way I can. I pray daily for ALL those who have fallen through the ever widening cracks in our medical system. May you find the strength to carry on.
 

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I got lucky I guess. I managed to sign on with one of those "concierge" doctors who only take cash and who only work with rich people. Turns out some of them take on a handful of pro bono patients who are poor, just to show to the community that they're real great and etc (many are very prominent). My dad managed to sign on with a concierge psychiatrist, then the doc took me too. He treated each of my comorbid disorders individually. And it worked! I didn't get therapy though, I worked out my issues on internet message boards.

Here in California it's getting to be that if a person is suicidal the cops arrive and take them to jail, not the hospital, because the mental hospitals all shut down for lack of funding. In jail they are thrown in with the general population, which is encouraged to beat/rape them and when they complain they are locked up in "restraint" positions for several DAYS straight and encouraged to kill themselves. In fact the Sacramento County Jail has a history of "difficult" inmates supposedly killing themselves. As far as the cops are concerned, it's just cleaning out the gene pool.
 

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Krazy Kitty
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I guess one of the hardest points to make was that they have one tool for the job and it is a sledgehammer. They pump people full of VERY POTENT medications, some with extremely horrible side effects that can be life long - INSTEAD of psychotherapy and counseling.

I can understand them keeping you until they think you are not a threat to yourself or anyone else, that is not the problem. The issue is the methods they use to "make you better". It has turned into some evil Orwellian nightmare where the doctors and pharma cause disease instead of cure it.

I have seen the effects of these meds up close in over 200+ people and they are NASTY! Instead of showing these people love and working on their personal skills they just give them a toxic medication. I can only say that I hope these doctors get the same treatment when the veil is lifted.
I just had to jump in on this one. It was almost ten years ago. I was living with a very abusive husband. He was later diagnosed with schitzophrenia and something else. He would put me in the bedroom and sit on a chair in the doorway and yell and scream at me for hours. He even did it in public. And he used to beat me but put the bruises where nobody could see them. It got so I was shaking all the time. He had the basement set up with a bed, tv, stereo and booze for himself. One night it was really bad and then he went to the basement. I nailed boards over the doors. Then called my sister and told her I couldn't take any more and that I felt like comitting suicide and she called the cops. They came and broke down the door and put me in handcuffs then one cop pulled my arms up almost to my neck and dragged me downstairs. He called me trash and other things and threw me in an ambulance. Well of course I was screaming because he was hurting me so he got mad. The people at the hospital were great to me. And the security guard took me outside to smoke and brought me coffee. He said anytime I needed to talk to someone I could call him. My regular jerk doctor put me on prozac which meade me feel like a zombie. I refused to take it so she tried me on three other things. Ugh! Why treat the victim with these horrible drugs when the abuser should be? I finally got away from my husband and did divorce him and I spent 4 years in counceling with no drugs. To this day I still have panic attacks once in a while. A couple of months ago I woke up and couldn't breathe. I went to the er and he said I was having a panic attack. He asked me if I had a nightmare and if I did I don't remember it. I do take lorazapam on accasion and I have fear of closed in places and public places now. I had my ccw and owned a .38 when I was married but sold the gun because I was afraid my husband would use it. I have never been institutionalized so I think I can still get my permit in the new state I live in. My ex was put in the nuthouse for 6 weeks and what a relief for me when he was gone. Oh and my best friend is a clinical psychologist and he doesn't believe in drugging people either. The new psychiactric guide has a new disease that used to be just for kids but now for adults. I forget what it's called but it's rebelling against authority. That means the govt. If we don't like what they are doing to us we're labled. THEY are the ones who should be drugged and locked up. Narcissitic power mad sob's.
 

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I actually am one of those who observes (and secures) people with mental or drug/alcohol dependency issues. If you go to an ER with one of those issues, you will be placed under security and will not be allowed to leave. It is then up to a psych evaluator whether you are placed into an institution or are released. This process can take a few days, for a number or reasons. I don't know if it affects the RKBA, but I wouldn't want to try it.
 

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Not only that but on the 4473 you would have to answer yes to to question about mental illness.
This should be of interest to all vets that have been diagnosed with PTSD. The anti gun croud has already been bringing this one up.
PTSD by itself does not keep one from owning or possesing firearms. It's been a while since I filled out a 4473, but if I'm not mistaken the word "adjudicated" is tied to that question.
I, at one time, recieved treatment for PTSD from the VA and have never failed the NCIS background check.
The whole PTSD-gun drama is whipped up by Gun Owners Of America for their own personal agenda.:mad:
 

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The new psychiactric guide has a new disease that used to be just for kids but now for adults. I forget what it's called but it's rebelling against authority. That means the govt. If we don't like what they are doing to us we're labled. THEY are the ones who should be drugged and locked up. Narcissitic power mad sob's.
Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Isn't that a kick in the head. If you don't shuffle along meekly, you are "mentally ill" and need to be put on tons of drugs to rot holes in your brain until you ARE meek and submissive. At least when an "uppity" black man was lynched, he died at the end, so that for him at least the pain stopped. Being put on drugs means that you're the walking dead, somewhere between dead and living. No escape. You are now a zombie, pumping out $$$$ for Big Pharma.
 

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Take another pill, it will solve everything.

I'm tired of this attitude, go along with the crowd, don't do what is right and the correct thing to do because it may stand out like a sore thumb.

For some unknown reason I've been dealing with depressing here recently because of some personal/employment situation but prepping, hanging with buds, having a good foundation with strong moral values will prevent it from getting overly serious. It drives me mad that nobody will stand up for the right thing to do anymore, your crazy if you are.
 

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I suffer from PTSD w/ hyper-vigilance syndrome since Katrina. Can't sleep. Just found out recently that part of my frontal lobe is damaged from the stress and that's why I have a bad time remembering friends names and such.:( Zoloft has helped me a great deal w/ anxiety and depression, but when my Dr. suggests to see a shrink, I've told him my concerns down the road of being labeled some nut-job and worried eventually they will come for my guns. He actually understood.:) Ever since that guy killed those students in college a few years back people are afraid and have had knee-jerk reactions.:eek:
 

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Information is Ammunition
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Take two Halidol and call me from the spirit world ;)

POPPALUV said:
I suffer from PTSD w/ hyper-vigilance syndrome since Katrina. Can't sleep. Just found out recently that part of my frontal lobe is damaged from the stress and that's why I have a bad time remembering friends names and such. Zoloft has helped me a great deal w/ anxiety and depression, but when my Dr. suggests to see a shrink, I've told him my concerns down the road of being labeled some nut-job and worried eventually they will come for my guns. He actually understood. Ever since that guy killed those students in college a few years back people are afraid and have had knee-jerk reactions
I hear ya man. I have the worst time getting to sleep, compounded by the fact I work nights. I'm lucky to get 3 to 4 hours a day until my body gives out and I crash out completely unconscious for 12-18 hours.

It's the suck.
 

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DYSFUNCTIONAL VETERAN
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Take away a firearm from a PTSD vet... Good luck lol.

I have trouble sleeping too. Was sleeping every couple of days unless I'm medicated and or on ambien. Then at that point ambien walrus makes me eat peanut butter cups, drink beer, and eat chips without knowing about it until morning.
 
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