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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I just waded through all 5 pages of the "how Obama will confiscate your guns" thread, and while interesting and informative, it occured to me that something was being missed. We're all focused on whether or not there will actually be a ban, and if so,whether or not they'll try to confiscate, whether or not confiscation is logistically possible, whether or not sympathetic LEOs and military will participate,whether or not there'll be a grandfather clause,whether or not it will lead to armed revolt, and so on and so forth.
What needs to be focused on is.....what is their ultimate intention? It's NOT just taking guns away, and of course, it has nothing to do with making us safer. These are means to an end, or excuses. Their main intention is to relieve the population of the very thing the founders intended when they wrote the second amendment, and that is our ability to fight back as a group of citzens. Everything they're doing is designed around that purpose, and therefore it doesn't really matter if they can only get us to turn in 10% of the guns, or if we all lie and say "there was this boating accident" when we really have them buried under the barn.
If they criminalize them to the point that no one can know we own them,or that we can't defend our homes against a home invasion without being later prosecuted ourselves for the pistol we used, or if we are unable to muster in the streets with a rifle in our hands,without fear of being mowed down or prosecuted, then they have acheived their goals. They don't NEED to confiscate all the guns. They just need to eliminate the threat to the status quo, to eliminate the chance of another 1776.
And because of the fact that technology tends to help them and hurt us
(they can evesdrop,we can't) it leaves us permanently divided and unable to mobilze in any meaningful way.
Looking at it like this, it seems they've pretty much accomplished their aims, without ever having to do a single house-to-house search.
 

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Forever Vigilant
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Eloquently put. So, now that we know the point, the question is how do we fix it? Voting obviously is not working.
 

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MD,
While I do concur with your concern you are missing the main point.

They number in the hundreds.

We number in the millions.

There is a line that is spoken near the end of 'V for Vendetta'...

"What normally happens when men without guns face men with guns"

The normal answer is there is a lot of blood spilled. BUT, given the numbers of those that have guns vs the number of people who don't have guns it doesn't come down to that.

It comes down to whether those who don't have guns would rather live on their knees in slavery or DIE STANDING UP FOR FREEDOM.

This age old question has yet to be answered. One day we WILL know this answer.

Again, history has shown us this can and HAS happened in our past. This is what FOUNDED this country.

Are you saying that there are not enough of us freedom loving people still alive in this country to stand up to those that wish to take that freedom away from us?

If that is your thesis, I DISAGREE.

But only history (future history in this instance) WILL TELL THE TALE.

And just for a brief view into 'TPTB', consider what two bozo's with ONE AR15 did to the cattle in Washington, DC.

HAD THEY FOLLOWED THE S3 CONCEPT, they would have literally started a fire that would probably STILL be burning. Instead they were not in it for some ideal named freedom.

They were in it to 'get ******'. And because they were so stupid, they decided they would settle for a 10 million dollar ransom PUT ONTO ONE OF THEIR CREDIT CARDS!

Study the history of the IRA. About 400 people (total) kept the WHOLE OF THE ENGLISH ARMY at bay for decades. In a country where firearms WERE BANNED.

FOUR HUNDRED PEOPLE OVER SEVERAL DECADES BROUGHT THE ENGLISH ARMY TO ITS KNEES, IN THAT THEY WERE COMPLETELY INEFFECTUAL IN ROUNDING UP A BUNCH OF PEOPLE WHO WERE KILLING THEM FOREVER.

And you are worried about it in a country where RIGHT NOW, firearms are legal? Where RIGHT NOW, firearms owners are stocking up so heavily that manufacturers of all kinds are running three shifts and cannot keep up with demands.

That's the thesis you are putting forward? You seem to be unaware of how fragile our infrastructure really is. And how thin the veneer of civil society ACTUALLY IS. We are one step from utter, total chaos. That makes it REALLY DIFFICULT for those in power to control anything.

Once again. YOU FOLKS NEED TO STUDY HISTORY. Really.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I think you've confused my acceptance of the realities for a call to give in and march into the cattlecars. I'm all for,uh,"firm resistance" to what our government has become, and even to, as the Declaration said,"..abolish it." But you guys that think an actual armed rebellion of any real substance is going to occur in the U.S. are living in a dream world. Yet,I haven't given up, in fact I finally joined the NRA a few weeks ago (FWIW), and do my best to convince others to prep with fireams and otherwise.
But, those two murdering clowns in D.C. that you refer to,didn't do a damn thing but instill a little fear, a thousand cars a days still piled through every gas station in D.C. the whole time they were shooting at folks filling up. Buisness as usual.
And, the revolutionary war was a VERY different situation than we have now. The colonists were much more closely matched to their adversaries than we are now, and you know good and well that's the understatement of the century.
Also, 400 people did not "bring the English army to it knees".LOL !!
All of Ireland just lived in a police state for a while, the English army is fine.Where's the IRA,now?
But, I also look at what's happening through the prism of biblical prophecy
( go ahead, laugh it up !). So, I've known since I was a kid ( I'm 45) that this global government/global currency/global dictatorship was coming. Everything we're seeing now, I used to tell freinds about decades ago, and had my face laughed in, yet.........turn on the TV, there it is,Merry Christmas.
So, I know, I mean i KNOW that they are ultimately going to win ( at least here). I KNOW that those of us that don't play ball are going to be relieved of the burden of our lives and our toys, which, believe it or not, includes our guns. Now if we can put that off a while,that'd be great, 'cause I got some cool $h!t, my brotha !!!
But that won't change the fact that they're still gonna take our stuff, that,or pry them from our cold dead hands. ( Notice I said "our".)
P.S. One last rebuttal, "THEY" don't number in the hundreds, "they" number in the millions,as well, as "they" include the Federal,state,municipal,county governments, most large corporations,plus the military and police, and don't forget your neighbors.
 

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*** Forgives, I don't
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I have been claiming the Goverment is our enemy since the '70's. Most people I talked with (friends/family) thought I was looney also. With the recent turn of envents most are starting to listen. I have even gotten 2 people at work to start preparing, it just takes getting others to open their eyes and do a little research.
 

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The way to fix it is numbers, we need to make these politicians scared. LITERALLY SCARED, we don't need voliance, we can do this the MLK Jr way still. But we have to be in large numbers, showing up at the feet of congress, outside their homes, yelling and telling them everywhere they go what we want. Numbers, Numbers, Numbers, we have to make them afraid to even think about trying such actions.

They know people today are stupid and apathetic, and that's why they aren't even listening to us anymore and openly doing whatever they want.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Still missing the point. THEY DON'T CARE !!!!!! They want,what they want, regardless. Look at the polls and outrage over illegal immigration the last couple years. Polls overwhelmingly support border security, no more benefits for illegals,etc. Yet what's the status now? Nothing's changed. The US and all it's ever stood for is being systematically dismantled, and all our posturing,letter writing,marching in the streets ain't changing anything. Is it ?
 

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MD,
Though the corner stone has been laid, nothing else on the building of the Temple on Temple Mount in Jerusalem. Until THAT happens, we are not in end days.

Having said that, consider my friend how bleak things looked during WWII. EVIL EVERYWHERE WAS WINNING. The US was in the 'isolationist camp'.

That all changed on Dec 7, 1941.

As usual, once the sleeping giant was awoke, he settled the score. NO, the sleeping giant is NOT the US government.

The sleeping giant is guys like my dad, your dad, ME, YOU, your kids, their kids.

THAT'S who got pissed off and stood up. Right up to that point, Americans were asleep. It does take a lot to wake us up. But once awoke, we have righteous indignation about being FORCED to do something about the problem that woke us up in the first place.

That has yet to occur.

Just wait. IT WILL OCCUR. THEN, ONCE AGAIN, THE SLEEPING GIANT (aka the silent majority) WILL WALK THE EARTH. AND EVIL WILL TREMBLE AND HIDE FROM GOOD.

History has proven this. Over and over and over again. The critical error you make is you assume that the sleeping giant is GONE.

Nothing can be further from the truth. He is sleeping soundly. When he is awoke, his fury will NOT be denied it's overall righteousness.
 

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To secure peace is to...
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I've posted these same Thomas Jefferson quotes about 10 times, but here it goes again:

The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.

History, in general, only informs us of what bad government is.

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.

The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all.

----------------------

Thomas Jefferson has to be one my most favorite historical figures. The man was wise beyond time itself. Check out tons more from the links below:

Source: http://jpetrie.myweb.uga.edu/TJ.html

Source 2: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/au...jefferson.html
 

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Mil-Dot
Your post reminded me that I have to renew my NRA membership...To that end I encourage supporting some progun organization...if not the NRA then GOA if not them then find one you can agree with and support them. The point being if everyone who owns a gun organized behind such organizations and they carried the numbers to show them to be a political force then we as gun owners start to get some real traction with the political process.
No it isn't going to stop the antis in their tracks, they'll still try to finagle some kooky legislation. What it will do is show the politicos who controls whether or not they get elected...and that, in this day and age, is about the only power we have over our elected officials...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I had higher hopes for this thread. Oh well, I tried.:(
If my posts had this little traction on a forum such as this........
I'll take very little satisfaction in saying "I told you so".
 

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Yes, the 2nd amendment gave us the opportunity to protect our families and homes but it also gives us the opportunity to defend ourselves against our elected officials/government. I honestly believe that if Obama attempts to confiscate/remove the right to have weapons I am sure there will be many attempts against him and other elected official. There are many people that believe he will not complete his first term in office.
 

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Mil , good post !! I think wall's posts are a plus to your argument . Just a different twist .
 

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RockOut w/ your GlockOut
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Revolution is brewing all around the world RIGHT NOW AS I TYPE! Most Everyone is pissed at their governments' Long reaching arms. Hundreds of millions do not want a global government as they see it take shape right in front of their eyes. They know they are lied to and feel helpless about it. It seems to me that helplessness leads to despair and despair leads to rage. You can smell it in the air, whether it is a simple revolution of the mind, a poor mans revolution or a Global Rebellion against the elite, the Giant in us is Awakening. Many groups have reared their heads and the Elite have taken notice, they have Quickened their pace bringing even more light to their motives. Many of the so called "sheeple" are already past helplessness and are in despair, that is why we are in the situation we are in right now. Hundreds of people daily are waking up, from old Republicans to young liberals, many are taking notice w/ every bailout, every lost liberty, and soon there will be nothing but Rage.


Ramblings aside, they will go for the bullets w/ taxation and scarcity, but not all the guns, because they know we will not forsake our forefathers without a fight. They would also need foreign and U.N. troops to do it and they know this would mean outright WAR. They will not only make all defensive weapons unsavory and taboo in our society, they will also tear away at the Image of a true honorable man and any one who stands up for themselves and their beliefs. But, We (the people) will still Beat them Down w/ brooms, pitchforks and RAGE when there is nothing left.

Resitance is not futile, doing nothing is.

 

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I think you've confused my acceptance of the realities for a call to give in and march into the cattlecars. I'm all for,uh,"firm resistance" to what our government has become, and even to, as the Declaration said,"..abolish it." But you guys that think an actual armed rebellion of any real substance is going to occur in the U.S. are living in a dream world. Yet,I haven't given up, in fact I finally joined the NRA a few weeks ago (FWIW), and do my best to convince others to prep with fireams and otherwise.
But, those two murdering clowns in D.C. that you refer to,didn't do a damn thing but instill a little fear, a thousand cars a days still piled through every gas station in D.C. the whole time they were shooting at folks filling up. Buisness as usual.
And, the revolutionary war was a VERY different situation than we have now. The colonists were much more closely matched to their adversaries than we are now, and you know good and well that's the understatement of the century.
Also, 400 people did not "bring the English army to it knees".LOL !!
All of Ireland just lived in a police state for a while, the English army is fine.Where's the IRA,now?
But, I also look at what's happening through the prism of biblical prophecy
( go ahead, laugh it up !). So, I've known since I was a kid ( I'm 45) that this global government/global currency/global dictatorship was coming. Everything we're seeing now, I used to tell freinds about decades ago, and had my face laughed in, yet.........turn on the TV, there it is,Merry Christmas.
So, I know, I mean i KNOW that they are ultimately going to win ( at least here). I KNOW that those of us that don't play ball are going to be relieved of the burden of our lives and our toys, which, believe it or not, includes our guns. Now if we can put that off a while,that'd be great, 'cause I got some cool $h!t, my brotha !!!
But that won't change the fact that they're still gonna take our stuff, that,or pry them from our cold dead hands. ( Notice I said "our".)
P.S. One last rebuttal, "THEY" don't number in the hundreds, "they" number in the millions,as well, as "they" include the Federal,state,municipal,county governments, most large corporations,plus the military and police, and don't forget your neighbors.
We know how Ruby Ridge and the Branch Davidian compound ended and it wasn't pretty. Though our numbers are great, what about the hearts and will? When America was attacked on 9/11 we were one nation, but that was short lived and within a month or two we were back at each others throats and it was business as usual. A resistance wouldn't last long because the resilience isn't there. America is a great country, the greatest country in the world, but she is not as strong as she used to be because we are all fighting within. A nation divided will not stand.

I don't think we will have to fear the gubermint as much as we will have to fear our fellow countryman. We saw what happened during the LA riots and Hurricane Katrina. We saw how people acted whenever there is no law and order. I would worry more about how THAT group of people would react if something happened to our new president more than anything else.
 

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To secure peace is to...
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I had higher hopes for this thread. Oh well, I tried.:(
If my posts had this little traction on a forum such as this........
I'll take very little satisfaction in saying "I told you so".
Huh? I think pretty much everyone on here gets the whole underlying cause why "they" want "our" guns.
 

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Still missing the point. THEY DON'T CARE !!!!!! They want,what they want, regardless. Look at the polls and outrage over illegal immigration the last couple years. Polls overwhelmingly support border security, no more benefits for illegals,etc. Yet what's the status now? Nothing's changed. The US and all it's ever stood for is being systematically dismantled, and all our posturing,letter writing,marching in the streets ain't changing anything. Is it ?
I agree. I believe one more non violent step could be taken before armed revolution is the only option. If the true patriots start having their children/grand children at home, do not register them into the system. No birth certificate and no social security number. They will be home schooled and will not pay into the system. They will earn a living on a cash basis only, plumbers, electricians, construction, seamstress, cooks, housekeepers, daycare, the list goes on. If their business is successful, they can hire other unregistered employees and thrive, tax and regulation free! Now certainly there will be disadvantages to being off the grid, that's what we registered citizens will help with. We know, by history, these people would THRIVE without the intervention of the government as they did one hundred years ago. But now there is a massive infrastructure that we have already paid dearly for. In time, the old rotten system will collapse under it's own weight, and dwindling tax base. Some complain, "They wont have the right to vote!" We do, how's that working out for us?;)
 
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