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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We are in the process of getting a bunker compound for our huge huge huge family 30+

One thing we are worried about is air and the qualty of air... how is ventilation, and what product do we need, the best filter to get how many ... so may factors

If you have a suggestion or even have a bunker and would like to enlighten us that would be great!
 

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An absolute minimum of 3 cubic feet of air per minute per shelteree is required. 5 cu feet per minute is much better. In a shelter with large occupancy, or where cooking will be done, more air flow is needed to control temperature asn well as to provide fresh air for breathing.

In case the ventilation system must be shut down to avoid detection or in case of nearby burning debris, at least 88 cubic feet of free air space per shelteree will allow for shut down for 6 hours before CO2/CO becomes a problem. If more shut down time might be required, or the volume of air can not be incorporated, consider CO2 absorbants.

Make sure that if a generator is in the shelter that it be isolated for fire and sound protection, and have its own cooling air intakes, cooling air exhausts, combustion air intakes, and combustion exhausts.

Some sources of air filter systems:

http://www.americansaferoom.com/Safe-Cell-NBC-air-filtration-systems.html

http://www.nbcsaferoom.com/NBCfilters.htm

http://utahsheltersystems.com/filters.php

http://andairusa.com/filters.php

Just my opinion.
 

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Mention it to the bunker building company, b/c there is not a chance in hell I would build anything underground for 30+ people in one location. Air quality might not even be the thing that kills you first. Crazy uncle Jethro and all.

Good Luck man! You have more guts than I do, attempting to live in a perpetual family thanksgiving gathering for weeks / months.. eeek!

Wub
 

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A slight positive pressure inside the shelter will keep most nasty stuff out.

There are lots of bad things that can't be filtered out. Protection from a 12 hour fire storm is doable. 30 days on supplied air will take some bucks.
 

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Id google a DIY "Scrubber" if the guys on Apollo 13 could do it with what they had on board,it cant be that complicated.:thumb:
Apollo 13 did have scrubbers. The problem was the Lunar Module didn't have enough for the ride back. But the Command Module did have enough. The issue was the CM's modules didn't fit in the LM. Their solution wasn't to make scrubbers from scratch. Instead they used hoses and a whole bunch of duct tape to jerry-rig the CM's scrubbers into the LM.

Since the Apollo scrubbers were made from lithium hydroxide I doubt anyone is going to be able to whip up a quick batch for their emergency bunker use.

Though you can make one from soda lime if you know what you are doing.
 
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$You Will Need A Dedicated NBC Filture And Ventilation System$

Back in 1990 or so, such a specific NBC system designed for 50 people for 30 days cost over $7000, and that was just for the physical filture array with NO additional required ventilation, induction or exhaust system and also without the required dedicated UPS to run the fans.

How much will this cost today? Dunno. Lots of companies sell such stuff and a lot of background information/knowledge will be necessary to make an educated choice. Perhaps hiring a professional consultant might be the best bet. Expect it to be spendy. HB of CJ (old coot)
 

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There Is More

We actually "live tested" a deep buried blast/fallout shelter in SW OR back in about 1990. We were concerned that strangers could manage to remain calm and collected for just 3 days. We barely made it.

Lots of valium and sleepers were required. Some of the individuals were MDs and RNs and it was still very difficult as not enough ventilating air was provided. Heat and humidity was a major concern.

Like already answered, 30 people may be a plan for disaster. If memory serves, OUR physical/emotional conditions were similiar to treading water in street clothes for one hour. Doable, but difficult to say the least. HB of CJ (old coot) (ex RN)
 

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Quick test to see if a 30 man bunker is a good idea.

Load a very large house up with 600 full meals and lots of air mattresses, turn off the internet and television, add 30 people, then lock the doors.

See how long that goes over before someone starts begging for the keys.

If you make it a week your group is one seriously calm and committed crew.
 
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Will need much more than the 10 square feet per person for shelters with that many people. Also some private space so people can get away from each other at times. A standard minimum FEMA or old Civil Defense design shelter won't cut it. I would suggest going for 100 square feet per person if at all possible. With at least 7' ceilings, preferably 8' or more for air capacity and a more spacious feeling. The colors and textures used inside can affect people adversely or positively. I'd also shoot for 40 cuft per minute per shelteree ventilation, too, especially if in a warm humid climate. And if that isn't enough to keep the humidity down, a humidifier system is called for. People generate large amounts of CO2 and water vapor that must be dealt with. When people feel hot, tired, and headachy, they don't get along very well.

Just my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I have 30 people with 1/3 is my children . we are planning 3500 square feet complex... good thing i have a great job!lol

I am looking at all the options that were given! Thanks
 

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I have 30 people with 1/3 is my children . we are planning 3500 square feet complex... good thing i have a great job!lol

I am looking at all the options that were given! Thanks
You might do better to locate one of those old Cold War communications bunkers to refurbish. You are going to need a whole lot of money to build a massive bunker that can keep 30 people sane for more than a few days. It might possible to keep a large single family (parents/grandparents/children) cooped up close because they are used to the proximity, but once you add in-laws, uncles, nephews, cousins, etc, the space needs are going to rapidly rise.

My advice is to stick with professional bunker building people because the larger it gets the more important the special bunker features become. The air handling system alone is going to be large and complicated. Power systems, fluid systems, climate control, the fact is you will also need someone in the group fully capable of being a "ship's engineer" and a fair sized workshop with spare parts built in. If you can't leave at-will then everything must either always work right (never happens) or you need the capability to make onsite repairs while completely isolated inside.

A bunker like you mention would keep a full company of Army Corps of Engineers busy for a month working round the clock shifts with a fat Pentagon funded budget.
 

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Ever think about shipping containers with proper bracing with a central corodor where every family has thier own unit but all connected? Might be cheaper and will keep people from going crazy. Think dorm style. DOCROB
 

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Buried Shipping Containers = Fast ride to a dirt nap.

By the time you make a pit truly safe for burying a container you have already built a sturdy enough bunker that you don't need the containers.
 

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Buried Shipping Containers = Fast ride to a dirt nap.

By the time you make a pit truly safe for burying a container you have already built a sturdy enough bunker that you don't need the containers.
Well look at all of these doomsday shelters people are puting into the ground all they are is souped up steel boxes. now if your going to build with reinforced concrete then belay my last.
 

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Well look at all of these doomsday shelters people are puting into the ground all they are is souped up steel boxes. now if your going to build with reinforced concrete then belay my last.
And people are dying from the collapses. Buried containers have pressure on every square inch of the skin. Just slapping a bit of internal bracing won't work. The entire skin has to be able to support all that pressure. A standard shipping container is only strong at the corners where the stack supports are.

So you either are going to be welding a ton or more of structural steel in a web across the interior or the outside dirt has to support it's own weight, usually with blown or poured concrete. If you are going to do all that you might as well save the money spent on the container and make a poured concrete bunker.

Don't bury shipping containers. Everyone please write that down for future reference.
 

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Just an idea...

What about compressed air tanks? Would that do any good? Letting air out slowly to keep the positive pressure in the bunker and keep fresh air abundant. Wouldn't work forever, but would help increase the hours. maybe?
 

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I would suggest building 2 or 3 smaller shelters with simpler ventilation systems rather than one large. It should also cost less.
 
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