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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
According to the recent SCOTUS decision, Obama wont be able to ban any weapons.

With that said, he can surely turn most weapons into NFA weapons, requiring a 200 dollar tax stamp for each and require compliance within a few years...

If he makes your AR or AK an NFA weapon, would you pay this or just get rid of them?????
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What weapons?:rolleyes:


You know....the whole "what weapons" argument is getting really old.

Do you really think a cop is going to believe you when you tell him you dont have any guns, when it is common knowledge that you do? I know it was good for a light chuckle when it was first said, but lets be serious.

You are not going to be able to say "what guns?" and get away with it.
 

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I doubt if the tax will be retroactive. My guess is that he will first outlaw or heavily tax ammo. Then, if a conservative justice dies, he will stack the court. Heller will become an overturned precedent. Then they will outlaw most guns.
 

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There are several things at issue here. One is the original proposal of registering your weapons. Most people will do this. Would I? We will have to see when the time comes.

The next issue (the one I am more inclined to believe will happen) is a major jump in sales tax on the purchase of certain types of firearms, all ammunition, and a substantial increase in import duties on imported firearms and ammo. The idea is to make it cost prohibitive to purchase guns and ammo. This is what was done with cigarettes, and it is working. $5 per pack is pretty cost prohibitive. The liberals like to tax, and this is the most likely scenario. The only way to get around this is to bulk up now before it all gets too expensive.

The last issue is also quite relevant - the "What guns?" scenario. "I sold those at the gun show, or online, or at the range ..... la, la, la years ago." First, LEOs cannot prove that you did not do this. Second, they cannot (at least not yet) just walk in and search your home or your property without a warrant. There are way too many guns and gun owners for LEOs to get and serve warrants and then conduct complete searches. Not enough man power and not enough money to do such a thing. However, if you shoot your gun normally at the range (there are almost always off duty LEOs shooting there too), then they will know that you have one, and you would be stupid to tell such a lie.

The hybrid way to deal with this problem is to have twins for all of your guns. That means you have one that you "sold at the gun show" and is now WELL HIDDEN, and you have it's twin that you shoot with at the range that is registered or whatever the government has required of you to remain legal. That way, if they come for your guns (history proves that it will happen one day) you have your legal gun(s) to give up while the(ir) twin(s) remain in your personal collection.

This, in my opinion, is the only way we can guarantee to have the resources to protect our 2nd Amendment right to overthrow our government when they decide that they, instead of the people, are in charge.
 

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I'm the boogey man.......
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Any weapons already in possession are grandfathered if reclassified as a NFA weapon and registration is required but no tax can be collected b/c the tax is a transfer tax and no transfer has taken place.

Also you're going to have to find LEO's willing to search a bunch of homes, I don't know any that are willing to do so.
 

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I doubt if the tax will be retroactive. My guess is that he will first outlaw or heavily tax ammo. Then, if a conservative justice dies, he will stack the court. Heller will become an overturned precedent. Then they will outlaw most guns.
Let us remember that the conservatives are the younger of the court; Roberts 53, Alito 58, Thomas 60 and the oldest Scalia 72 (who says he's not retiring any time soon) it is the liberals who will probably retire Stevens 88, Ginsburg 72 (wants to retire), Breyer 70 and Souter 69. The swing is Kennedy 72 (He is a conservative on the gun issue but liberal on social issues i.e. ********, ect.) So even if Stevens or Ginsburg retire or died, it won't change to court much. The one to watch are Kennedy or God forbid Scalia. But for right now the ammo manufactures and gun stores love for us to rush out to buy all the ammo before it's "banned", it good to stock up but panic buying just means your going to pay to much.
 

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Depends on the state. Here there is no paperwork unless they come from a shop or are being traded in or sold at a shop. I have the same paperwork covered rifles from a couple decades now but with no paperwork they trade them as often as they change underwear. At our range I hear people (usually poor marksmen) talk about trading them off the first time they go to the range and the gun doesn't do all the work for them. I know one guy that has traded in 4 times in 3 months and still doesn't like the rifle he has.

Used to hear the same thing at the auto comp shop. Poor workmen blame their tools.

Now extrapolate this out to millions, and there are too many transactions taking place in one state in a years time to ever figure out.

I think we need to focus on being responsible, and safety, as well as mandatory sentencing for every single violent gun crime and all illegal trafficing. That will make everyone safer over the long haul. Trying to take away guns or even keep track of them, is like peeing in the wind.
 

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You know....the whole "what weapons" argument is getting really old.

Do you really think a cop is going to believe you when you tell him you dont have any guns, when it is common knowledge that you do? I know it was good for a light chuckle when it was first said, but lets be serious.

You are not going to be able to say "what guns?" and get away with it.
How is it common knowledge?

How can they prove that you didn't sell your guns in a FTF transaction?
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
How is it common knowledge?

How can they prove that you didn't sell your guns in a FTF transaction?


Do you regularly shoot your guns at a public or private range? Chances are you have been seen there or your name is on the member list...

Have you ever purchased a gun through a dealer?

The only possible way would be to purchase all your guns in FTF transactions and be lucky enough that none of the people you bought from have your address or name, etc which is not at all a given. Even then, if you were ever seen with the gun you are screwed anyway.

The local chapter of the communist party (believe it or not) regularly compiles lists of people here. They regularly are at firing ranges writing down license plates numbers etc. Im not joking or making this up.

At any rate, WHEN the cops start searching houses for guns, they will be searching every house even if you swear you never owned a gun.

"What guns?" isnt going to work. And youre probably going to get your face punched in for thinking they are stupid enough to believe your BS.
 

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Also you're going to have to find LEO's willing to search a bunch of homes, I don't know any that are willing to do so.

yeah look at katrina. there werent any cops or blackwater willing to do house to house searches there. oh wait there were plenty. and they did it.

tons of people will turn them in when told to do so. then you just have to sort out the rest and throw their asses in jail as straight razor would say.

you better hide them cleverly cuz they are gonna bring out technology that will see them hidden in your walls etc.

every single person who wants to keep their guns will say "what guns?" they will be sick of hearring it and will search your house anyways. oh they cant? hell yes they can what the hell do you think the patriot act is for? if you try to keep illegal guns in your possession your a TERRORIST.

this aint gonna be an easy thing to deal with when it comes. i see a real scenario as either giving up your gunz or fighting and dying. maybe a few can have a really good hiding spot but most wont.
 

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Do you regularly shoot your guns at a public or private range? Chances are you have been seen there or your name is on the member list...

Have you ever purchased a gun through a dealer?

The only possible way would be to purchase all your guns in FTF transactions and be lucky enough that none of the people you bought from have your address or name, etc which is not at all a given. Even then, if you were ever seen with the gun you are screwed anyway.

The local chapter of the communist party (believe it or not) regularly compiles lists of people here. They regularly are at firing ranges writing down license plates numbers etc. Im not joking or making this up.

At any rate, WHEN the cops start searching houses for guns, they will be searching every house even if you swear you never owned a gun.

"What guns?" isnt going to work. And youre probably going to get your face punched in for thinking they are stupid enough to believe your BS.
"Officer, I've told you for the tenth time, I SOLD ALL MY GUNS"

Punch me? Not a good idea cause officer friendly will have to go home sooner or later and go to sleep. Pay back is a B**** !!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
"Officer, I've told you for the tenth time, I SOLD ALL MY GUNS"

Punch me? Not a good idea cause officer friendly will have to go home sooner or later and go to sleep. Pay back is a B**** !!


Im trying to have an intelligence conversation about a subject that all of us, to varying degrees are worried about.

So you wont do anything when they come for your guns except cry about how you sold them all?

What do you do when they demand to know who you sold them to?

Im serious about this. Have you even considered this other than over a few beers with your buddies and wanting to sound all big and bad?

Im not trying to make you or anybody else mad but the fact is these little macho displays of emotion will not accomplish a damm thing.

So if you are beaten by an LEO you plan on sneaking up on him in his own home and exacting revenge? Get serious.

I call BS. You are not Rambo and this is not the fracking movies friend.

Events over the past 20 years have PROVEN that LEO's are not your friend. Remember Waco, Ruby Ridge, Katrina, the LA riots, etc ad nauseum.

There is (well maybe a little) shame in just giving up and providing them with all your weapons when the time comes but talking all hot and heavy now beforehand when your comments prove you have not even considered the truth of the matter just makes you look small.
 

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they will not have any problem finding people to go door to door to search for guns.....a lot of these idiots will work for free as long as they can carry a gun....
 

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There are several things at issue here. One is the original proposal of registering your weapons. Most people will do this.

I wouldn't bet on that "most would" idea based on facts here in Kalifornia and our registry of so called "assault weapons".
When the deadline to register had passed here there were something on the order of 13,000 firearms registered.
The gun grabbers were elated with the success of their program to list all the owners of the evil devices.
Until the ATF informed them that the 13k registered only represented about 10% of the rifles, pistols and shotguns targeted that were sold in the 6 months prior to the onset date of the ban.
Look at that statement.
"The months prior to the onset".
California was one of the largest markets for the so called "Assault rifle" for years.
I think ten percent was a generous figure actually, I would be willing the bet there were well over 200k firearms that were on the list sold in Kali in those months being the ATF was using estimates taken from distributors who cleaned out their stock and set it to Kali.
That didn't include smaller retail outfits who came to Kali for gun shows and sold through local FFLs.
It doesn't account for retailers who acted as wholesalers to the local guys who could not get shipments.
J&G sales for one sent literally hundreds of soon to be banned firearms to dealers in Kali.
It was legal, the State of California bitched but there was nothing they could do about it.
Then came the adjustment of status for the SKS-D.
The SKS -D is a detachable magazine rifle that uses AK-47 mags.
It was not on the original list being it did not fit the criteria and was not listed by name.
It got added and a new registration period occurred.
Some owners complied.
Sales figures say a tiny percentage of actual owners according to CRPA.
The Brady Bunch sniveled and filed a lawsuit claiming the new registration violated state law and surprise surprise the Courts here in the PRK saw things their way(the wrong way as usual) and declared all registered SKS-D rifles needed to be turned in.
A few people complied, seems most didn't.
There were no house to house searches.
To my knowledge even the owners who got letters specifically telling them by name to drop their rifles off at the nearest Jackboot collection point never had the midnight smash and grab party that was feared.
No one was black bagged for non compliance.
It did however reveal Grey Davis for the liar he and all other politicians are(once again) when he had promised his Law Enforcement Protection Act was not going to lead to mass confiscations.
He lied, they ordered one, it was less than successful.
I think to be honest if you'll allow me to don the tin foil a moment, that that SKS-D thing was set up as a test case to see what would happen.

Katrina.
I am glad there are those here who make sure to bring that up.
It's a never forget type thing and needs to be.
What might also need to be taken into consideration is that in New Orleans at the time you had a HUGE police presence in relation to the number of residents at the time.
That too was a test case.
They wanted to see how it went.
Bear in mind however it was a very unique set of circumstances.
Most people who remained were very isolated.
Most of the confiscations occurred in the suburban areas where maybe on house in ten was occupied.
The cops, like a rogue force went from house to house BREAKING AND ENTERING every home they saw.
That alone should result in someone being jailed, it won't.
They operated with relative impugnity because there was such a sparse civilian presence in the 'burbs.
Ahhhh not the case in the French Quarter.
Lots of stay behinds.
The whole area had residents who refused to leave and the swarm and overpower technique was not used.
Also most of the confiscations that did occur were of the "is there a gun in the house", "yes", "give it to us" variety.
There were no elaborate detail searches.
Most morons came on out of the house with a rod in their hands to greet the cops..........not bright.
A bit of creativity in concealment would usually (at least in one case I am aware of) confound any confiscation efforts.
There are nowhere near enough cops and military to carry out house to house confiscations here.
Even with Obamacorp.
I have a hilarious image of some ghettocool Obamabot in fatigues with spray painted gold boots holding a pistol sideways at my house screaming "Alpha, Omega" at the door.
I also have an image of a military turned inside out by conflicting views on the UCMJ and it's take on mass confiscations.
It would be civil war on a scale unheard of.
No, this will be a war of attrition.
Frog in the water, a ban on sales, a ban on ammo importation, an "arsenal law", laws adding who cannot have a firearm, that kind of incrementalism.
 

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Country Boy,

What state are you in? That may be part of the problem in how you perceive the "What guns?" or the, "I sold my guns?" tactic. In many states there are no laws that say that you must write a bill of sale, or get someone's ID, or write down any information in any form when you sell any gun that is not restricted (ie. class 3, etc.) I have bought and sold many guns over the years from individuals. There is no way I could ever remember who I sold those guns to, or exactly when I did it, and there is no law that says I must present that information.

There are also no laws that say that LEOs can ask or force me to come up with that information. I sold a gun a few days ago in a parking lot to a guy that I met on a weapon EE. I do not know him, and I cannot remember his name. He paid me cash. There is no paper trail. Even though I was seen firing that rifle at the range not long ago, I sold it and the LEO's have no way to know where that weapon went, and I broke no laws. That gun was purchased by me from an FFL dealer, so my name is associated with it as are dozens of other guns that I sold or traded away over the years.

So, the reality of the situation is that I say "What guns?" when they come knocking. When they produce a list of all of the guns I have purchased for the past 20 years, I can honestly tell them that I sold them all. They can ask whatever they want to ask me, but according the the law, I do not have to provide them with answers. According to the law, they must get a warrant to search my house.

Now, in a different scenario, where LEOs are hiding behind the Patriot Act and search based on probable cause, they will not find anything. Does that mean I do not have anything? No, it just means that I do not have any guns here for them to find.

One other thing to remember is that if you have a real safe (the kind that weighs 1500 lbs and are bolted to the floor) they cannot compel you to open it without a warrant, and then, they still cannot force you to open it. At that point, they have to expend the money to hire a safe cracker (very expensive for real safes) to get your EMPTY safe open. It would not take many of those forays to bankrupt a department.

It also would not take long for the patriots of this country to respond after hearing several times on the news of LEO's and law abiding citizens getting killed over gun grabs. You know this would happen. When the LEOs start losing officers while on gun grabs, the effort will either be stopped or will bankrupt them due to the time and manpower involved in staying safe. There is just not enough money to do gun grabs. After the first wave, the rest of us will have the time to make necessary preparations to avoid this happening to the rest.

To put it in a more familiar perspective. If gun grabs were possible, they would have already employed the techniques necessary to grab up all of the drugs and drug dealers. Believe me, there are far more guns and gun owners than there are drugs and drug dealers, and I still see drugs and drug dealers everywhere.

I would not worry about gun grabs, I would worry about the civil war that would most likely happen if they tried it. My .02
 
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