Which rifle(s) are you looking at ?
How much bolt gun do you really need?
What I'm trying to do is to justify the cost of this rifle so I'm not worried about the stock, optics even the trigger. I'm wanting to base this down on the barrel,action and bolt.
When it comes down to accuracy when is the average hunter shooting out to 500 yards not all the time going to notice that a difference between the $400 vs $800 barrel,action and bolt?
Made things as clear as mud ask me questions I'll try not to muddy them up also!
When it comes down to accuracy when is the average hunter shooting out to 500 yards not all the time going to notice that a difference between the $400 vs $800 barrel,action and bolt?
Made things as clear as mud ask me questions I'll try not to muddy them up also!
1 - 20 of 88 Posts
One. Million.
That's how much bolt action you need. Cost? One million. Weight? One million. Caliber? One million. Range? One million.
Ok, joking over. What exactly are you trying to get out of this rifle? Extreme accuracy at a given range? Is weight a consideration?
That's how much bolt action you need. Cost? One million. Weight? One million. Caliber? One million. Range? One million.
Ok, joking over. What exactly are you trying to get out of this rifle? Extreme accuracy at a given range? Is weight a consideration?
Most guns shoot better than the shooter.
Most shooters never try different loads to see what is best in that particular gun.
Most shooters very very seldom shoot more than 200 yards.
Most bolt shooters shoot less than a box of ammo per year.
Most shooters never try different loads to see what is best in that particular gun.
Most shooters very very seldom shoot more than 200 yards.
Most bolt shooters shoot less than a box of ammo per year.
I'm not an ex-purt on this at all, but I'd think a lot involves how the barrel handles heat. A single shot cold barrel should be repeatable. Nor am I a great hunter, but I've done a little. Taking game it's rare to fire more than once, unless it's yotes or prarrie dogs. Unless you are in the west you would seldom shoot that far. I've never hunted anything past 100 yards, if that. Deer more like 100 feet. A Winchester is fine for me.
Now if you are talking moose or bear from one ridge to another, yeah, you need to be pretty accurate. Or antelope in Wyoming that can see you a mile away. But that's where camo and stalking comes in.
Now if you are talking moose or bear from one ridge to another, yeah, you need to be pretty accurate. Or antelope in Wyoming that can see you a mile away. But that's where camo and stalking comes in.
A sturdy .30-'06 or .308 bolt action with scope and backup iron sights will do it. K.I.S.S. principle. Mine is a 1942 Winchester Model 70 target with George Van Orden Marksman stock and with clip slot for reloading with stripper clips, Lyman 48 receiver sight and muzzle machined for M1 Garand battlesight. The barrel is fitted with Unertl blocks for optional use with 6x42mm Unertl Vulture scope, carried in protective metal tube.
Irons have hard sight dope at 250 yards for APM2 or M72 with come ups to 1000 typed on a range card with wind diagram varnished to stock. Unertl scope has hard 500 yard sight dope and range ticks from 200 to 1000 and 1 mil lead indicators on crosshairs. Old school early Vietnam era trade craft pre-mildot. Assembled at Marine Corps equipment shops Quantico, VA. Carlos Hathcock, Jim Land and Bruce Wincentsen had similar rigs during their early VN tours prior to adoption of the M40. Mine was rebuilt in 2000 by a retired former USMC gunsmith now teaching at FBI National Academy.
Irons have hard sight dope at 250 yards for APM2 or M72 with come ups to 1000 typed on a range card with wind diagram varnished to stock. Unertl scope has hard 500 yard sight dope and range ticks from 200 to 1000 and 1 mil lead indicators on crosshairs. Old school early Vietnam era trade craft pre-mildot. Assembled at Marine Corps equipment shops Quantico, VA. Carlos Hathcock, Jim Land and Bruce Wincentsen had similar rigs during their early VN tours prior to adoption of the M40. Mine was rebuilt in 2000 by a retired former USMC gunsmith now teaching at FBI National Academy.
Does anyone still make bolt actions like that with irons?A sturdy .30-'06 or .308 bolt action with scope and backup iron sights will do it. K.I.S.S. principle. Mine is a 1942 Winchester Model 70 with clip slot for reloading with stripper clips, Lyman 48 receiver sight and barrel fitted with Unertl blocks for optional use with 6x42mm Unertl Vulture scope.
Irons have hard sight dope for 250 yards for APM2 or M72vl with come UPs to 1000 typed on range card with wind diagram garnished to stock. Unertl scope has hard 500 yard sight dope and range ticks to 1000 and 1 mil lead indicators on crosshairs. Old school early Vietnam era trade craft pre-mildot.
Any quality barreled action will shoot 500 yards. That’s not that great of a distance.When it comes down to accuracy when is the average hunter shooting out to 500 yards not all the time going to notice that a difference between the $400 vs $800 barrel,action and bolt?
Savage, or Remington action with high quality barrel will shoot sub MOA easy at 500 yards.
Winchester Alaskan and a couple others.Does anyone still make bolt actions like that with irons?
Perhaps there would be a slight difference in accuracy, but there could be a big difference in the feel and action. Is there a particular action you are considering? There are plenty of cheap bolt actions that shoot remarkably well these days, but they may leave something to be desired in their overall quality.What I'm trying to do is to justify the cost of this rifle so I'm not worried about the stock, optics even the trigger. I'm wanting to base this down on the barrel,action and bolt.
When it comes down to accuracy when is the average hunter shooting out to 500 yards not all the time going to notice that a difference between the $400 vs $800 barrel,action and bolt?
Made things as clear as mud ask me questions I'll try not to muddy them up also!
Is this just a shooter or a family heirloom? What sort of accuracy expectations do you have?
I think some of the best values right now are the Bergara series of rifles, which are very high quality clones of the Remington 700. Also the Tikka rifles are great for the money and worth the price. The Rugers and Savages will shoot great if that is all you are looking for.
Please post pics of that if you have the time, it sounds awesome.A sturdy .30-'06 or .308 bolt action with scope and backup iron sights will do it. K.I.S.S. principle. Mine is a 1942 Winchester Model 70 target with George Van Orden Marksman stock and with clip slot for reloading with stripper clips, Lyman 48 receiver sight and muzzle machined for M1 Garand battlesight. The barrel is fitted with Unertl blocks for optional use with 6x42mm Unertl Vulture scope, carried in protective metal tube.
Irons have hard sight dope at 250 yards for APM2 or M72 with come ups to 1000 typed on a range card with wind diagram varnished to stock. Unertl scope has hard 500 yard sight dope and range ticks from 200 to 1000 and 1 mil lead indicators on crosshairs. Old school early Vietnam era trade craft pre-mildot. Assembled at Marine Corps equipment shops Quantico, VA. Carlos Hathcock, Jim Land and Bruce Wincentsen had similar rigs during their early VN tours prior to adoption of the M40.
How much bolt gun?
I own six of them ranging from 22 LR to 338 win, and I used to a dozen.
I believe everyone should own at least two,
1) a super precise gun chambered in a high velocity/low recoil cartridge (25-06 to 270 Win),
2) a bigger rifle that can hammer big game (like Elk) as far as you can shoot (7 Rem to 338 Win).
I own six of them ranging from 22 LR to 338 win, and I used to a dozen.
I believe everyone should own at least two,
1) a super precise gun chambered in a high velocity/low recoil cartridge (25-06 to 270 Win),
2) a bigger rifle that can hammer big game (like Elk) as far as you can shoot (7 Rem to 338 Win).
The average hunter isnt shooting anywhere near 500.What I'm trying to do is to justify the cost of this rifle so I'm not worried about the stock, optics even the trigger. I'm wanting to base this down on the barrel,action and bolt.
When it comes down to accuracy when is the average hunter shooting out to 500 yards not all the time going to notice that a difference between the $400 vs $800 barrel,action and bolt?
Made things as clear as mud ask me questions I'll try not to muddy them up also!
In my opinion for hunting once you hit 1 moa and the gun is reliable everything else is fluff!
Optics tend to be more important if you really want to actually use the gun at longer ranges- but the truth is you dont need top tier glass to be deadly.
I personally like lightweight rifles that are easy to carry, but for the price its hard ti justify- the truth is if you simply want to kill something there isnt actually any need to spend more then $500 on a rifle.
Spend the Extra money on practice ammo and limit yourself to the ranges you can actually achieve as a shooter.
No derail, but there is a secret to Antelope. I would tell you but not in a public forum... No joke it works, you get them to come to you.I'm not an ex-purt on this at all, but I'd think a lot involves how the barrel handles heat. A single shot cold barrel should be repeatable. Nor am I a great hunter, but I've done a little. Taking game it's rare to fire more than once, unless it's yotes or prarrie dogs. Unless you are in the west you would seldom shoot that far. I've never hunted anything past 100 yards, if that. Deer more like 100 feet. A Winchester is fine for me.
Now if you are talking moose or bear from one ridge to another, yeah, you need to be pretty accurate. Or antelope in Wyoming that can see you a mile away. But that's where camo and stalking comes in.
Back to the OP's question. We have bolt rifles that range from $500 to $3,500 without optics. It really depends on what you want it for. Truck gun, garden gun, dangerous game, varmints, all weather deer gun, competition or general purpose/homestead? We just bought another 308 for $600 its a Remage setup so it's easy to change the barrel/cartridge to a 6.5 or 6mm and it barely been used.
I'll add bergara to the factory list. Pick your caliber within reason at that distance.
First the average "hunter" is never shooting at 500 yards. And most never at 300 yards. Most big game is killed at 200 yards or less. Usually a lot less. What rifle are you talking about and what are you hunting? I have killed 30 deer and two elk and all my shots were 80 yards or less except for one kill at 250 yards.What I'm trying to do is to justify the cost of this rifle so I'm not worried about the stock, optics even the trigger. I'm wanting to base this down on the barrel,action and bolt.
When it comes down to accuracy when is the average hunter shooting out to 500 yards not all the time going to notice that a difference between the $400 vs $800 barrel,action and bolt?
If you are talking about shooting prairie dogs at 400 yards thats not hunting. Calling coyotes in and making a 300 yard shot is hunting. Stalking the woods for deer is hunting. Make sure you know the difference between hunting and shooting.
I had a Savage Axis for a short time. I normally do not care for the new Savage guns but I have to tell you that gun really impressed me. A young friend really wanted it so I sold it to him. It was chambered in .270 Winchester. One of the best rounds you can own. I shot that gun a little before I sold it and really regret letting it go. But I have enough rifles already.
My last ever rifles to be sold would be my 30-30 lever actions and Ruger MKII in 30-06. There isn't much you can't kill with a 30-06. All the way out to 500 yards. The 30-30 is its little brother that is best kept to 250 yards or less. How much shooting experience do you have? Five hundred yards is a long way to shoot.
Try shooting at 500 yards. But do it right. Go into a grassy field and put a 9" paper plate on a stick 3.5' above the ground. Now take a shot. In the grass you will get no puffs of dirt to help you correct your aim. If you missed the plate you probably missed your deer. And maybe just wounded it. Now try the same thing at 300 yards. Did you hit the plate with your first shot? If you didn't move closer until all your shots hit the plate. And no bench rest. Do it right. Shoot from a field position.
You may find this hard to do at 150 yards. Remember. The animal is taking all the risk. If you can't make a kill shot with every shot from an improvised field position you shouldn't be shooting at that range.
I have a base Rem 700 in .308 , composite stock,w a nice piece of glass…it will shoot way beyond what I have any business trying..
Very few Hunters, even those with long range target shooting experience, will take a 500 plus yard shot on a game animal. Most folks cant make a humane kill beyond 300 yards. Most of the guns being built today will shoot far more accurate than the fool pulling the trigger! Many of those guns are remarkably accurate and will shoot sub 1 inch at a hundred yards with its preferred load! The real question is can you... You can own the most expensive Mutant Zombie Zapper that shoots sub 1/2 inch all day long, but no matter how good your equipment is, if you dont shoot a lot and put some serious time behind it, it does you little to no good.
If it were me, as old as I am, I would pick a good solid round that can get the job done thats low in recoil and efficient, at a reasonable cost and then find me a decent rifle to shoot it from and invest in some quality glass and burn up some serious amounts of ammo learning how to shoot it like a Boss!!! Two of my favorite chamberings at the moment are 6.5 Grendel and .308 Winchester despite the fact I have several Magnum "Bean Field" Rifles in my collection! 7mm-08 would be another one I would pick if I wasnt so heavily invested in 30 caliber! None of those three are as sexy as the Magnums are but can more than pick up the check, do it with a lot less recoil which means youll shoot them more and probably better and the cost wont break the bank or your wallet either!
Just my Buck O Five on the subject....
If it were me, as old as I am, I would pick a good solid round that can get the job done thats low in recoil and efficient, at a reasonable cost and then find me a decent rifle to shoot it from and invest in some quality glass and burn up some serious amounts of ammo learning how to shoot it like a Boss!!! Two of my favorite chamberings at the moment are 6.5 Grendel and .308 Winchester despite the fact I have several Magnum "Bean Field" Rifles in my collection! 7mm-08 would be another one I would pick if I wasnt so heavily invested in 30 caliber! None of those three are as sexy as the Magnums are but can more than pick up the check, do it with a lot less recoil which means youll shoot them more and probably better and the cost wont break the bank or your wallet either!
Just my Buck O Five on the subject....
Only bolt action rifle I own is a Ruger Gunsite Scout .308 w/ Leupold Scout Scope. More rifle than I’ll ever need...
Most modern firearms are better designed than the past generations.
Prior to the Model 700 most bolts in bolt action guns were forged in
one piece. Probably made them unbreakable, but hard to find one
that was perfectly straight and fitted concentric with the bore. This
idiosyncrasy also made them a bit harder to accurize….
Then along came furnace brazing and everything turned on lathes, etc.
The current crop of rifles, though we may not like the aesthetic, is probably
going to be more accurate out of the box than the guns of yesteryear. And
there are some with flimsy stocks and cheaply engineered bits and pieces
that may degrade performance - but you get what you pay for.
After 3 years of doctors and stuff I might find a few bucks to spend on a
rifle… I don’t want a Savage, or anything like it. I love the new Winchester
Model 70’s, and the Kimber’s like it. Though i am drawn to older rifles of
that ilk. Maybe a Ruger or Mauser action. No recessed bolt heads! I don’t
care what was said about “3 rings of steel”, the head of the cartridge is
supported by that, but the weaker part of the case, the web, isn’t.
These are my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
Prior to the Model 700 most bolts in bolt action guns were forged in
one piece. Probably made them unbreakable, but hard to find one
that was perfectly straight and fitted concentric with the bore. This
idiosyncrasy also made them a bit harder to accurize….
Then along came furnace brazing and everything turned on lathes, etc.
The current crop of rifles, though we may not like the aesthetic, is probably
going to be more accurate out of the box than the guns of yesteryear. And
there are some with flimsy stocks and cheaply engineered bits and pieces
that may degrade performance - but you get what you pay for.
After 3 years of doctors and stuff I might find a few bucks to spend on a
rifle… I don’t want a Savage, or anything like it. I love the new Winchester
Model 70’s, and the Kimber’s like it. Though i am drawn to older rifles of
that ilk. Maybe a Ruger or Mauser action. No recessed bolt heads! I don’t
care what was said about “3 rings of steel”, the head of the cartridge is
supported by that, but the weaker part of the case, the web, isn’t.
These are my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
1 - 20 of 88 Posts
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