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· Banned
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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
and i trust in my skills that i can find food and survive with my pack items but my family is my concern and getting to thme is my goal.. after i et to my location its time to relocate to the deep country place..but what place is safe lol...none who knows what will happen so why not have enought on your possicion to survive ..what good is bullet if you cant get to them .. i you bol is east of you how will you know if its safe to go there lol...carry what will keep you alive
 

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I think it depends on your situation. If your buggin out and things are relatively calm in the city where your at id consider sacrificing ammo for more important things like food or water if you need the room. However if you bug out and the world is on fire id surely make ammo a priority. In fact you should consider a LBV to carry as a basic load, and then add ammo to your BOB accordingly.


-Nate
 

· This site sucks
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because what if your bug out location isnot safe....it could be on fire or under water or inhabeted by some one else ..so i realy belive bug out location are good bug why keep stuff there ......btw my bol is where i grew up and my family lives but whats to say that it wont be wipped out ? say you have 200 rounds and i decided to carry 500 .and we can both shootdecent ..who has the better chance ? BOL are overrated i myself have 3 locations i can go and i am nont gonna store anyting on anyof them ..what if i just cant get there saftly ?

You just seem to be trolling now. You have said you have a location, now 3. You said you had to get a pack and fuel. You have nothing stored at any of these location.
You have asked when will I know to bug out. How much ammo to carry for these guns which in one post you said were at the BOL, then you say you store nothing at the BOL.
Now I am reading on another post of yours you are going to be burning out people that stay and shooting them and looting. Have I about got your plan down?
 

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You just seem to be trolling now. You have said you have a location, now 3. You said you had to get a pack and fuel. You have nothing stored at any of these location.
You have asked when will I know to bug out. How much ammo to carry for these guns which in one post you said were at the BOL, then you say you store nothing at the BOL.
Now I am reading on another post of yours you are going to be burning out people that stay and shooting them and looting. Have I about got your plan down?
I believe you got it right...:D: I believe hes a newb, not that i am very experienced, but he just excited. My advice would be to slow down and read , read, read. Theres a lot of good info here.
 

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Leave early enough to travel in a BOV. Bikes? Travel with friends?

How about 100 rounds 9mm, and 300 rounds of 7.62, in magazines. That is heavy enough. What about other needed supplies, water, food? That will be a heavy pack.

Physically fit to carry a heavy pack, and hike for 100 miles-that is a long hike.

If you get in a firefight, you likely did something wrong.

--------

Suggestion: Why not move outside the city in the direction of your family home, so you only have 70 or 80 miles on secondary roads to travel to get there? Scout out several routes, and have a good map to navigate around road blocks. Expect the interstates to be closed, or packed solid with cars in all lanes in the event of a SHTF evacuation.

Get the DOT website and check it for road closures before you leave, and enroute if the system is still up, and you have the technology. Some states have a DOT number you can phone for road conditions (read closures), if the system is still working.

Cell phones often quit working early in an emergency, so be prepared with alternate commo methods for your group.
 

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THINK first!

If you're bugging out, you have to know WHY you are bugging out. Under what conditions do you leave a known environment for a HOPEFULLY better one? Something is forcing you there. USUALLY it's long term hunger or extreme danger in your current location. You are lucky enough to get to whereever your BOB is, and you know where you need to go.

You dont' mention vehicles, and I wont guess - so I'll assume you're hoofing it.

Every single thing you carry will chafe you, light or heavy, everything wears you down. Until about the third day, when your body will start adapting to the demands you're making. You've got an AK and a glock. Shooting schools give you a false sense of how much you have to shoot, it's because you're training, and it's not a realistic idea of how much you may have to shoot. There are not "El Presidente" survival shooting scenarios, now matter how many actions movies you've watched.

You mentioned your SO, so assume she'll need ammo/gun too. But again, you didn't mention that.

Perhaps it's better to go with potential scenarios.

1. You're on your way, and you hit a government roadblack. No amount of ammo is going to get you through - null. Think you're smarter? They TRAIN for this kind of stuff, they're going to have an observation post WAY before you can possibly see the roadblock - your existence is already known, no sneaking away. Think NOT? Think again, the army and marine corp TRAIN for "urban pacification" and they're not stupid, IP/OP's are standard procedure.
2. There's an impromptu roadblock, manned by 3 people with guns. Roadblocks are placed by people who are in their sphere of influence, your first shot is going to draw MORE shooters. again, you can't win.
3. You're walking and get ambushed - odds are whoever ambushed you was waiting until you were WAY into the killzone, you're already dead. But let's say you survive, you'd be CRAWLING somewhere - the bigger and heavier the backpack - the worse off you're going to be. You'll lose everything in it as you shed it to escape. Your "I dont need caches" mentality, has just insured that someone is going to be making babies with the girlfriend/wife you brought along, because your hubris has disarmed you in a hostile environment.
4. You are waylaid by someone with no sense - in THIS scenario, you MIGHT have a chance of winning. Let's hope you don't get wounded.
5. You get sniped - no winner here. You're a FAVORITE target, know why? Because you appear to be well-armed and carrying a LOT of supplies.
6. someone sees your gun, assumes you are a looter and bags you OR calls in the FEMA goons and THEY bag you. FEMA lives for this stuff, if they don't relocated you to a "safe area" they'll strip you and send you on your way. It's protocol.

In nearly all situations where you and only one other person are traveling alone, the best way to travel in by leaps and bounds. It's also very tiring and time consuming. But it's a must in an urban environment, or where any habitation is spread out. Never ever have both of you out of cover at the same time. 100 yard hops, or longer, depending on terrain. One covers the other and glasses the distance for threats while you cover the terrain. At times you can travel together, but I would advise against it. While you're crossing some open area, you come under some kind of fire. Your spotter sees the bad guys and you're 100yds out, with no cover, and the bad guys are 250 yards to your oblique. Either your support person works their way around to take them under fire, or they're equipped with a hunting rifle setup and can tag them at 300 yds. Either way, you've gotten into a fight, and your job was NOT to get into a fight, your job was to safely bug out to wherever. Congratulations, since you counted on walking to your bug out location in five days, you sacrificed water and food for ammo - and you've just added at least one more day to your trip.

It's a young man's folly, he thinks he can fight his way everywhere, and that having more guns and ammo than the next guy will help him win a fight, then some 12yrd old with a pump action guarding the cornfield 22 zaps him in the melon, because you can be darn sure the 12 year old is in a prepared position that his dad dug for him. he's heard you at least 200 yards away because he's not moving and you managed to knock into that trip wire he set up that knocked a tin can over.

The ONLY way to get 100 miles safely is to do it with a minimum of exposure. This probably means traveling at night, or with other groups. If alone, then it means you STAY OFF THE ROADS - roads are like mousetraps. In SHTF scenarios, two people traveling alone are asking for an ambush. So, let's say you contact someone and there is gunfire exchanged, by by SOME MIRACLE you are not hit. You should be disengaging and retreating to evaluate your path.

If you make 5 miles a day, on foot, you should count yourself lucky. You should not be trying to win any foot races, you should be worried sick you'll get in a fight. One single would to you or your SO and you're history, you're either the guy who couldn't get the girl to safety, or you're the guy who got the girl killed. Want to be a hero? Then win - and redefine your definiton of winning. In any firefight scenaries, Murphy's laws of combat rule. One of them is "if your enemy is in range, so are you." You just can't figure on winning against someone without taking damage. Shooting is a last resort NOT a first response. Think your AK will carry the day. Watch the movie, "southern comfort" - it should open your eyes.

I'd carry, six total mags for the AK and 3 for the pistol. Each AK mag weighs 2 pounds loaded. With the rifle, you've already got 20 pounds, add the pistol and gain another 5 pounds or so. 25 pounds of your pack is ammo/guns. Think you'll move fast with that and the other stuff you'll need? So call it 180 rounds of AK and 50 rounds of pistol If you get into any kind of firefight where that is NOT ENOUGH, then you're f***king up, and you need to turn back. If you WIN some kind of firefight, the bad guy will have ammo you can take. I just can't see a survival scenario where I will need even 300 rounds of ammunition. If I'm using that much, then I'm failing - because it means I'm not moving out of range. There is just no way carrying enough ammo for "winning my way through" 100 miles of SHTF terrain makes ANY sense when there are two of us and our goal is SAFETY. But let's say you do carry 300 rounds of rifle ammo. I'd say carry 3 mags, and the rest loose, same for the pistol - is you run those dry, then you're already hunkered up and you can reload the mags or your SO can from loose rounds. Divvy them up in vacuum packs enough to fill each mag. Load each rifle mag down to 28 rounds to avoid cycling problems the first 3 rounds. Carry softpoint ammo, the only reason to carry FMJ is to adhere to the NATO convention, forget THAT, softpoint is what you'd use to hunt game and makes much more sense if you have to shoot somebody to save your life that the round will do a maximum of damage.

there are just too many books out there where the survival scenario has involved shootouts where the guy with the most bullets, wins. It's makes for good adventure reading, but it makes for lousy survival.

What I'd do, if I thought I'd need ammo or guns along the way. Is map out three routes to my target area, and place supplies every 25 miles - socks, ammo, rations and water (those mylar ones). Since you know where the caches are, you can always get them when things calm down - but if you NEED them, you are going to need them badly. That's 9 caches. An additional pistol or cheap rifle in the cache immediately outside the urban area means that if you get stripped of your arms by FEMA, you can rearm. It also means that if you bug out from a place other than home, you quickly have some supplies to make your trek. If you get to this point, you will be quite angry at the universe for NOT caring at all whether you live or die, you will now survive based only on the thoughtful preparations you have made - all your whining if you get robbed or hurt will have no affect on the universe's indifference to you.

More important than ammo, are boots and socks, not to mention boots and socks. If you find a pair that you like, then get three, and break them ALL in, cache a pair at the halfway point. If you pick up supplies along the way, by the time you reach your destination, you'll have eliminated the stupid stuff you started out with, and you will arrive at your destination with more ammo than you started, which you will theoretically need ONLY at your bug out destination.

You can read, all day, about how a company of soldiers can march 30 miles in a day. Or a navy seal can swim upstream for five miles. The soldiers don't START OUT marching 30 miles a day, they work up to it - in your bug out scenario as well as mine, I'm not going to be training for several weeks, neither am I going to be, on average, 20 years old, neither will a mess tent be waiting for me, or a medic humvee if I can't walk. They train so that they trade their sweat for blood when it counts. TRY to 100 miles march on successive days, have someone drop you off at last nights stopping point. Don't pamper yourself at night in the comfort of your home, see how long it takes you to walk it with just 50 pounds in a backpack ON A ROAD that you wont be using when you really do bug out.

The ammo will become secondary after this.
 

· American fearmaker
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Idmaster has it right. I was going to say with an AK I'd carry 7 magazines, 6 in a vest/carrier system and one in the rifle. I'd have 5 magazines total for my pistol. Four magazines in pouches and one in the handgun.

With an AR I'd carry 10 magazines. Nine in pouches and 1 in the rifle.

I would have my rifle scoped with at least a 4 or 6 power scope for tactical use and to enhance my overall accuracy.
 

· 11B3P
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Carry MINIMUM 2 full mags for each weapon. As stated having ammo already stored at your destination is a good idea.

You may find that walking for 4 days to your BOL with huge amounts of ammo will not work well.Excessive weight often finds itself laying strewn behind along your course. More ammo stored is outstanding but more ammo on your back will punish you.
 

· Inglorious Deplorable
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Step One. Work on Cardio and Endurance.

Step Two. Work up to a 25 Mile March.

Step Three. Work up to a 25 Mile March with more and more gear. Add more and more ammo until you say, OK, that is enough.

Store extra supplies at your BOL. If you cannot reasonably secure stuff at your BOL, why would you want to walk 100 Miles to get there Post SHTF?
 

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Having a bad back, I have given this a lot of thought and my solution is a drag-bag.

It is a GI duffel with the a flexible cutting board (cheap plastic one.. Teflon?) duct taped around 1/2 of the lower part of the bag so that when drug the plastic acts as a skid on the ground lessening resistance and protecting the canvas. A simple para-cord harness will secure it to my belts or around my waist.. It will hold my 308 Saiga, extra 12 gauge (for my Mossburg on shoulder sling), ammo and a 250rnd box of 7.63x51. Although quite heavy it slides with ease on the flexible cutting board skid.

Yep I'm getting home.. regardless!
 

· Retreat hell!!
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@ minimum 1000 rounds a piece , on your person carry ? 3 mags 1 in chamber on the 9 , 4 mags for the ak . If your confident about certain locations in your travels ,why not build a cache , at to it as you go , make it so you can have at least 500 -1000 rounds on hand , every 5 -10 miles , make sure your can write the coordinates down , and find it with a compass , you never know if something has disturbed the area , make the cache(s) waterproof , and lockable , if your worried about your own location stock up with as much as you can , but your caches will be your "go to" stash , BTW ,if youthese cashes with enough room you can add other essentials like a firestarter or matches, currency , binoculrs , you name it , just make sure its buried deep enough , ie, learn your compass well!
 

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If theres a chance of your bol not being safe go and barry some 55gal drums on the propperty and make you a map of them and were they are. In each put food,water,gear&ammo. Then if the house or cabin is compermized you can still get to supplies cause only you know were the are.
 

· What would Mal do
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nice post IDMaster.

my daily carry that is ALWAYS on me is just a little Colt 380 with 1 spare mag..that's little more than a dozen rounds of a small caliber.

in my small grab bag i keep 2 extra preloaded magazines and a small box of 20rds more ammo and that's it for firearms. my hope is that will be enough to get away from a fight should I stumble into one...certainly not win a firefight.

if I've bugged out and have my large BOB with me, then I've got a 40cal..my old duty smith with 11rd magazines...1 in the gun, 1 on the holster...and 8 more preloaded in the BOB. Again, not a lot in terms of a firefight, but maybe enough to get me out of trouble.
If I've determined that I have to go recon my wife/kids..then I might grab my 5.56 rifle which lives in it's own tac bag with 5 pouches on the side that have 25rd preloaded mags in them...again, that's not a lot of ammo to someone who's ever found themselves on a battle field in a squash...but it should give me a chance to get in and out of a bad area.

anything more than that, is just too much weight and doesn't fit any of my scenarios.

if we are packing up to evac an area and I've got the 30 mins to hook up the travel trailer, load the motorcycle/bikes, food tubs, water, spare gas, etc and still feel like grabbing a couple ammo cans makes sense..then yeah I've got those well organized and will toss them in the bed of the truck..but honestly, it'd be the last thing I'd grab on my list, as all other stuff is more important and I'll already have some firepower from my BOB and daily carry.

welcome to the forum..don't let some of the posters ruffle ya...we can be a bit grumpy sometimes...but worth sticking around...
 

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If you are walking 100 miles you got to figure that will take 10 to 14 days on the safe side. This means you need to carry food, water, shelter along with your guns and ammo. You said you had a 9mm and 7.62x39. These two guns probably puts you close to the 10lb mark. I stock ammo at work and the boxes are heavy so I doubt you will be able to carry everything that you want to. I would think 100 rounds of 9mm and 300 rounds of 7.62x39 would be plenty. You should be able to know things are bad before the rest and get out before everyone goes crazy.

You being an Eagle scout should be familiar with camping and hiking so you know a trip this long requires a fair amount of gear and food that is very heavy.

My advice is

Use a cache
Drive
Dont go shooting everyone when you start shooting others will probably start shooting at you.
Use a game cart or garden cart to carry your gear
Stash your supplies at your BOL

Nice to see another Eagle Scout on the forum. I am an Eagle Scout too. Remember "Be Prepared"
 

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You really need to analyse just how hard it is to walk 100 miles with a load. I am willing to bet you have never hiked more than 2 miles, and certainly never carrying any type of a load. A man that is 6 feet tall and 280 pounds is obese, and I doubt you could even walk 100 miles unloaded in under 10 days. Not trying to be mean, just trying to be realistic.

I just weighed the following items, and they came in at just under 17 pounds:

Spikes AR15
CZ P01 9mm
4x 30 round loaded PMags (120 rounds total)
3x 14 round loaded CZ mags (42 rounds total)
Maxpedition mini chest rig
Gerber Prodigy fixed blade knife

That weapon load out (which is a tiny armament compared to what you are thinking about carrying) weighs 17 pounds, and my typical 2-3 day backpacking gear weighs around 40 pounds. I am dreading having to ever need to carry all that gear anywhere, and I know for 100% certain I am in better shape than you.

I would worry less about carrying 1000 rounds of ammo and more about making sure you can actually make it 100 miles on foot. That is a 5 day trip at the very least, and probably closer to 10 days. More likely than not you will be ditching things left and right to reduce your load weight after the first day or two of hiking.
 

· Crusty, Crunchy and Cute
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300 rounds, 600 rounds, 1000 rounds or rifle ammo? Not counting the package you are carrying the ammo in you are talking about carrying 11 pounds, 22 pounds or 37 pounds of ammo just for the rifle. I can tell you for a fact that when the troops in the civil war hit the road they were equipped a lot better then when they finally engaged and a lot of perfectly good gear was laying alongside the road. Having done 42 mile hikes several times that 11 pounds is not 11 pounds when you get there and that isn't even accounting for the weight of the OP's rifle and pistol. It doesn't account for food or water or fire making gear or a sleeping bag or a blanket or fishing gear, knife or even the weight of his boots and coat. Walking around you living room with guns and ammo strapped to you is no comparison to walking and feeling your hands go numb after 10 miles or blisters popping up if you aren't wearing the right gear and your feet are soft. Then you have the galling from your equipment straps digging into you no matter how comfortable they were at home you wont be able to find a good position for all your straps of all your gear and you are going to start dumping it. The first thing to go will be the heaviest. Yup, bye bye ammunition.

Absolutely no more than 100 rounds of each, that is still 6 pounds counting the pistol ammo. You find the best socks and the best boots you can afford and start taking long walks now. Learn how to care for your boots, get them oiled up and conditioned now.

You cut a staff or buy a walking stick and get used to using it now. You get a good pair of sunglasses and a broad brimmed hat like an Aussie brush hat and get used to wearing it.

You walk when it's windy and when it's rainy and when it's cold, you stay home when there is lightning. There is no guarantee there will be shirt sleeve weather if you have to bug out and you had better be acclimated to the outdoors no matter how hot or cold it is.

You will be able to carry your gear and still have it when you get to your destination. You will be tired but healthy, not crippled up with leg cramps and blisters and infected sores.

Just a hint from an old country boy.
 
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