[Beachbummer]

How long would a school bus last buried ? We are thinking of using a school bus for additional storage. We would put it flush against the basement wall and just cut a door through the cinder blocks and make an entrance. I wonder if you would be better off taring the whole bust to help with rust issues. Does anyone have any experience with this type of storage?

 

[Taisdealach]

depends on the moisture content of your soil. in the southwest it could last a lifetime in a region with heavy rainfall a few years at best. there are far better options in most cases.

 

[sayter liften]

storage containers

why not use one of those storage containers they transport goods overseas, thier made for ocean enviroments and would have more capacity, are stronger and can be sealed easier and come in different sizes.

 

[Highplains]

How long would a school bus last buried ? We are thinking of using a school bus for additional storage. We would put it flush against the basement wall and just cut a door through the cinder blocks and make an entrance. I wonder if you would be better off taring the whole bust to help with rust issues. Does anyone have any experience with this type of storage?

http://www.ki4u.com/webpal/d_resources/survival/busplan.htm

Narrative construction notes

http://www.radmeters4u.com/arktwo/photoconstruct/photocon.htm

Pictures and narratives

There is a canadian site built with 42 school busses interconnected.

 

[sarge912]

I can't help thinking about how this didn't turn out well for the Branch Davidians. As to the shipping containers, I read just recently that from a structural standpoint they are very dangerous as they are not made to take side pressure.

this came from the www.offthegridnew.com newsletter, I would like to link it but it doesn't seem to be posted on their site that I could find.
please note that there was no copyright info in the news letter that I could find and it says it is ok to pass it along.
...read Gerald from Texas' idea about the shipping containers, but I think you and your readers need to know there is a very serious risk of collapse from shelters of that kind. I had thought about the idea as well, but fortunately I spoke with several engineers about the load bearing capacity of shipping containers. Basically, they are built solidly to hold the weight of many loaded containers on top of one another without damage. However, the way they are designed does not at all accommodate the forces associated with loose soil and earth.

These things are not designed like houses. There are no "studs" in the walls, and there are no roof trusses or beams. They provide almost no "crush" resistance on their sides or ceiling. It's true that these things can hold tremendous weight, and are meant to stack; however it's made for a very specific type of load. Containers on the bottom of a stack basically rely on the floor of the container above them to transfer the weight to the outside four corners. They have four vertical pillars (one on each corner) that transfer the weight of any containers above them. However, they do not have any beams along the roof of the container. The roof itself is not designed to hold weight at all, unless the weight is already aligned to transfer the weight down the four vertical pillars. Similarly, the walls of these containers have no beams or supports to withstand force coming in from the sides.

If buried, the container would be facing loads on the ceiling and sides trying to fill the square void. Without some type of modification for the roof (to transfer the weight of the soil to the four vertical corner posts) the roof could very easily collapse. Additionally, without some type of modification the sides of the container could crush in as well. This is especially true after a rain or snowmelt conditions when the soil is even heavier.

Even the shape of the container would contribute to its demise. The forces acting upon objects submerged in soil are very similar to the forces acting on objects submerged in water. Submarines are basically giant cylinders, and it's not for the aerodynamic properties! The cylinder is one of the strongest shapes when it comes to resisting "crush" forces. The elongated rectangle is one of the worst. However, the cylinder is not nearly as efficient when it comes to storage capacity as the rectangle. That's why shipping containers are rectangles and submarines are cylinders.

I don't want to discourage your readers. There are ways to turn a shipping container into a viable underground shelter, but your readers need to be absolutely sure the roof isn't going to collapse and the walls aren't going to cave in.

Yours in Christ,

Anonymous

 

[puzzler]

I was able to help bury 2 freight containers. a slab was poured then after setting the containers were set with a 1 foot gap and a door was added between them. Then the poured concrete over them and into the sides an middle. was costly but it is for a tornado shelter. Toilet flushes up. (?) it was attached under a garage that was added later.

 

[Duster]

What kinda shelter we talking here? Like long term fallout shelter or short let-the-storm-pass kind?

Either way I wouldnt do the containers, the best reason why I ever heard was the argument "ever see a square submarine?".

Buses would be alright, I was going to mention that Canada group but its been mentioned.

I would like to point out culvert. Really its darn near perfect short of a 10 foot thick concrete purpose build shelter. Utah shelter systems uses them, I would check out their site for ideas. You can email with questions, the owner is very cool and VERY helpful.

I would worry about water table height mainly. Are you in a floor zone? Perma frost? Blast zone? etc etc...

Sealing is always a good idea I would say. The nice thing about culverts too, is they act as a faraday cage... Well, assuming whatever is in it doesnt touch the metal.

 

[Mortimer]

How long would a school bus last buried ? We are thinking of using a school bus for additional storage. We would put it flush against the basement wall and just cut a door through the cinder blocks and make an entrance. I wonder if you would be better off taring the whole bust to help with rust issues. Does anyone have any experience with this type of storage?

Not very long unless you wrapped the whole thing up in some heavy plastic sheathing or something. There's a reason why cars sitting in a field look like $hit after 10 years.

 

[cleatis]

Now for the diy'er that has the money to spend, Hardox steel is the way to go. It is hard to come by. It is made by a company in Swedin and it is pricey but it is tuff stuuf. Rust is not much of an issue and it will withstand lots of pressure if used on side wall construction.

 

[hatguy]

I would assume it would corrode, how fast depends on the environment. I would buy a sea-can(shipping container. get them used for 1 or 2 grand) either put it inground like you wanted, or even have it above ground. probly have to tar it or seal it, with ANY kind of metal underground to prevent it from corroding and rusting out...

 

[unit505]

I would think that the bus would hold up well if you used Cathodic Protection (CP). CP does not work on regular automobiles because CP has to have something to complete the circuit - a ground. Rubber tires on the ground prevent true grounding and CP does no good. However, CP on metal boat hulls and outboards are truly grounded by the water. Bridges use CP for metal footings and are grounded by the earth. A buried bus with a heavy coat of undercoating and all bare metal surfaces coated with an epoxy paint and then grounded with grounding rods welded to the body should last for years. The real challenge is to keep the grounding rods changed out every few years as they will be the metal that corrode. CP uses very low voltage that is undetectable by touch and should be able to be solar powered. CP uses less than 1 volt and amperage varies depending on the size and material you are working with.

 

[Packitup]

How long would a school bus last buried ? We are thinking of using a school bus for additional storage. We would put it flush against the basement wall and just cut a door through the cinder blocks and make an entrance. I wonder if you would be better off taring the whole bust to help with rust issues. Does anyone have any experience with this type of storage?

How do you plan on digging that size of a hole next to the basement wall without caving in the wall?

 

[sarge912]

How do you plan on digging that size of a hole next to the basement wall without caving in the wall?

I have seen this done when expanding a basement. They put floor jacks on the floor bearer (not the joists) to take the downward pressure off. The hole was filled with a welded, steel frame for the door. The other side of the wall was already dug out for the addition, so there was no pressure against the wall. If you are doing this for real, it would be a good time to insulate the outer wall.
Were you planning on insulating the bus? You could use the spray on foam. Hopefully you are not just going to pile dirt back on but rather backfill with crushed stone.

 

[Howey01]

Maybe if when you dig the hole make it a couple feet wider and longer put some drainage in the floor around the buses frame up the top for a roof pour concrete how ever thick you like this will help moisture go to ground

 

[methemom]

would't it just be cheaper and easier to sell the bus and use the money you get to buy concrete blocks? and less liklihood of the EPA or some other environmental group fining you for contaminating the soil with a buried gas tank, oil pan, etc...

 

[Pangea]

would't it just be cheaper and easier to sell the bus and use the money you get to buy concrete blocks? and less liklihood of the EPA or some other environmental group fining you for contaminating the soil with a buried gas tank, oil pan, etc...

This.

For the same square footage it couldn't cost more than $1500-$2000.

 

[Duster]

Making a concrete underground shelter is more than concrete walls...

You have to make them waterproof, they need to be strong enough not only to keep out the dirt, but also if it rains, and if you happen at all for it to be in a blast zone of any magnitude, then you have to deal with overpressure...

Of course you cant have a solid wall or celing because you need ventilation, and dont forget cracks from settling.

I think a pre-made (give or take) steel shelter buried is a better bet. Steel will flex in an earthquake and wont crack, if its a rounded shape it will take heavy loads better. Their easier to waterproof and most are galvanized anyway. Drilling holes in the side for ventilation and what have you is a snap, and so is sealing it after the fact.

Eh, to each their own, I would just stress researching the downsides of anything you plan on doing. An unlimited budget, yeah I would probably go with a concrete shelter (or Radius Engineering), but since I DONT have an unlimited budget, I want to get the most bang for my buck but also want to make it safe.

I think of all things a person could get, a shelter would be one of the last things you want to skimp on.

 

[UZI4U]

Might could use one of those plastic water storage wells there huge