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Interesting conversation I had with one of my Hmong friends this morning. One of his daughters is a infectious disease control lab tech etc. or something. And She told her dad Last night that because nothing about this is adding up. She's is starting to be of the opinion that it's being spread through the Water supply. But she's going to do her research in private before she brings it up or goes public. They are really good people. And definitely pro medicine. But very anti this vaccine etc.
 

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Interesting conversation I had with one of my Hmong friends this morning. One of his daughters is a infectious disease control lab tech etc. or something. And She told her dad Last night that because nothing about this is adding up. She's is starting to be of the opinion that it's being spread through the Water supply. But she's going to do her research in private before she brings it up or goes public. They are really good people. And definitely pro medicine. But very anti this vaccine etc.
No offense, but theories about this thing are spreading faster than the disease, even among professionals. Nobody knows what to believe anymore, which means all the experts, on all sides of the discussion are letting us down. The #1 factor in effective public communication is credibility. And no one has any.
 

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MyPrepperLife
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No offense, but theories about this thing are spreading faster than the disease, even among professionals. Nobody knows what to believe anymore, which means all the experts, on all sides of the discussion are letting us down. The #1 factor in effective public communication is credibility. And no one has any.
I think SOME people have credibility. For example, the physicians who are advocating and using early-treatment protocols for Covid have a lot of credibility, in my book.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
No offense, but theories about this thing are spreading faster than the disease, even among professionals. Nobody knows what to believe anymore, which means all the experts, on all sides of the discussion are letting us down. The #1 factor in effective public communication is credibility. And no one has any.
Oh I agree but what percentage of the world's population are on their own private water supply well , spring etc. That have been sick versus public water supply. She is looking at environmental considerations.
 

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I think SOME people have credibility. For example, the physicians who are advocating and using early-treatment protocols for Covid have a lot of credibility, in my book.
That's cool. You have every right to your opinion. But "I think..." is not science. So you ascribe credibility to that group, and other people ascribe credibility to other groups. There ought to be irrefutable proof by now, from knowledgeable experts who don't have an agenda. We don't have that for Covid, and for that matter, we don't have it for climate change. But we should.
 

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he #1 factor in effective public communication is credibility.
This is the biggest problem right now. Just about everyone informing the public has changed the stance on what to do and how to do it. But this virus has changed direction a lot also the only factor I see common is that it spreads with heavy density of people even if just temporary gatherings.
 

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So as per the other thread about disproving information from WA state, Ill let a few people in on some secrets.

When i watched the CDC infection map start to light up i saw numbers that in the first few days of this in jan 2020, that I thought, Holy CRAP! this is bad.

OK, then as time wore on and the data that I know how to work with slowly started to creep out to the public sector, i began to have doubts about a few things.
here is why.

Spot or sometimes called flash points or flash vectors are areas where the virus (and I'll stick just to the virus for this discussion) started to appear.
My home state of NM was not on the map for some time which I thought was rather quite odd. Why? Because you see Alaska Airlines has direct non-stop route between Albuquerque and Seattle which was one of the early hot spots. So logically, NM should have had a very fast appearance of and dare I say quick spread throughout the area. We didn't go into the illegal lockdowns until April.

The navajo Nation got hit particularly hard, and the early story was that some janitor from outside came in with it and spread it to the kids. Then because of "Family Traditions" it spread like wildfire.

Yet, there was some very odd things with that. The Nation first locked down also in April. Then our dear leader illegally locked down Gallup for a weekend, very much like Australia. yet surrounding areas didn't report the spread either.

Migration patterns on any scale will show you how these things spread. but it wasn't following those patterns. Now with air travel and high-speed travel (traines, Camaros, Fed. highways, etc) this thing should have spread like wildfire.
In WA state for instance, the locational data said that every point along the beaches of lake Washington (Kirkland, Kenmore, Bothel, Issaquah, Seattle, SeaTac, Redmond, etc0 lit up like a christmas tree. That was a logical aspect.

But in many places around the US local customs, and migration patterns didn't add up.
Again, back to NM, the hot spots became as expected Bernalillo County, and Sandoval County.
but by the time the lockdowns started, the various Pueblos had already locked down everything and everyone. yet they started to get hit. the patterns didn't make sense. this aspect plays out over and over.

As for how it actually spreads? Unknown, but the one main point that was troublesome is that NM is a high altitude state, lots of various foods that can help boost immune systems quite well, local customs designed to stop spreads of any disease, and yet it started popping up in places it should not have at the time they did.
 

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So as per the other thread about disproving information from WA state, Ill let a few people in on some secrets.

When i watched the CDC infection map start to light up i saw numbers that in the first few days of this in jan 2020, that I thought, Holy CRAP! this is bad.

OK, then as time wore on and the data that I know how to work with slowly started to creep out to the public sector, i began to have doubts about a few things.
here is why.

Spot or sometimes called flash points or flash vectors are areas where the virus (and I'll stick just to the virus for this discussion) started to appear.
My home state of NM was not on the map for some time which I thought was rather quite odd. Why? Because you see Alaska Airlines has direct non-stop route between Albuquerque and Seattle which was one of the early hot spots. So logically, NM should have had a very fast appearance of and dare I say quick spread throughout the area. We didn't go into the illegal lockdowns until April.

The navajo Nation got hit particularly hard, and the early story was that some janitor from outside came in with it and spread it to the kids. Then because of "Family Traditions" it spread like wildfire.

Yet, there was some very odd things with that. The Nation first locked down also in April. Then our dear leader illegally locked down Gallup for a weekend, very much like Australia. yet surrounding areas didn't report the spread either.

Migration patterns on any scale will show you how these things spread. but it wasn't following those patterns. Now with air travel and high-speed travel (traines, Camaros, Fed. highways, etc) this thing should have spread like wildfire.
In WA state for instance, the locational data said that every point along the beaches of lake Washington (Kirkland, Kenmore, Bothel, Issaquah, Seattle, SeaTac, Redmond, etc0 lit up like a christmas tree. That was a logical aspect.

But in many places around the US local customs, and migration patterns didn't add up.
Again, back to NM, the hot spots became as expected Bernalillo County, and Sandoval County.
but by the time the lockdowns started, the various Pueblos had already locked down everything and everyone. yet they started to get hit. the patterns didn't make sense. this aspect plays out over and over.

As for how it actually spreads? Unknown, but the one main point that was troublesome is that NM is a high altitude state, lots of various foods that can help boost immune systems quite well, local customs designed to stop spreads of any disease, and yet it started popping up in places it should not have at the time they did.
You are correct with this. I watched as well, and it wasn't making much sense in how it initially spread. Currently, it seems to be following migration patterns that I would anticipate it to follow. But how it is/was introduced seems to the question I can't quite pin down. Once a spot develops, you follow the migration pattern out to where people travel. There maybe too many factors for to see how or why the hot spot developed in the first place now.

The thing I find odd is that nobody, not even the CDC, are talking about how it is being spread or how it is currently migrating around the country. So much for the contact tracing that is going on.
 

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MyPrepperLife
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There ought to be irrefutable proof by now, from knowledgeable experts who don't have an agenda.
That's just it. There IS irrefutable proof that prevention protocols and treatment protocols based on IVM and HCQ are effective. The experts advocating these protocols don't have an agenda other than trying to save people's lives and health.They certainly aren't making money from their efforts, and in fact some of them have essentially committed career suicide because they have been trying to do the right thing. These are the people who should be leading the effort to quell the pandemic, but what's happening instead is that they are being stigmatized, marginalized, and censored by people with incentives that have little to do with public health.

Follow the money.

And yes - I did say "I think," but realize there are data supporting what I think.
 

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Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
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Oh I agree but what percentage of the world's population are on their own private water supply well , spring etc. That have been sick versus public water supply. She is looking at environmental considerations.
I only drink purified water. Have a reverse osmosis system.
The water quality where I live will make you sick.
 

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Interesting conversation I had with one of my Hmong friends this morning. One of his daughters is a infectious disease control lab tech etc. or something. And She told her dad Last night that because nothing about this is adding up. She's is starting to be of the opinion that it's being spread through the Water supply. But she's going to do her research in private before she brings it up or goes public. They are really good people. And definitely pro medicine. But very anti this vaccine etc.
There is some validity to that theory:

"More than 300 of the cases of SARS in Hong Kong had been linked to a large apartment complex in which the virus spread through the sewage system and environmental contamination, a Hong Kong government investigation found."

 

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I only drink purified water. Have a reverse osmosis system.
The water quality where I live will make you sick.
Theres nothing wrong w our water in my area…all wells draw from 1000+ ft wells into the Miocene Aquifer…sweet water…But I wouldn't drink tap-water on a bet..Flouride,Chlorine etc..we use delivered spring water-same aquifer but untreated..I rigged a 2 bucket charcoal filter system for my dogs water..They dont drink tap-water either…jmo
 

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Interesting conversation I had with one of my Hmong friends this morning. One of his daughters is a infectious disease control lab tech etc. or something. And She told her dad Last night that because nothing about this is adding up. She's is starting to be of the opinion that it's being spread through the Water supply. But she's going to do her research in private before she brings it up or goes public. They are really good people. And definitely pro medicine. But very anti this vaccine etc.
While I'm not saying that that can't be the case, I don't feel that it is. I also don't feel that it is generally spread by aerosol either (so general masking and esp. non N95 or better masks do virtually no good).

What I have observed working in a workplace that has few outsider's and where people work 10-12hr shifts are that when folks have gotten covid of which we've had about 15-20 cases since this pandemic began is that in no case have we had people on the same crews or shifts sequentially contract Covid, and I have now worked with two folks who have had it and have spent anywhere from 4 to 12 hours in the same room with them during the time where they likely would have started being contagious before getting full-on symptoms and being tested. Now granted the size of the room (about 20 feet square) allows for social distancing, but if folks were exhaling or depositing the virus in their vicinity in a general way we should have seen small scale "Blooms" among shifts or work groups and we have NOT. What I have observed is that in many cases it tends to run between partners and families living in the same house which indicates to me that more intimate contact is required compared to casual.

To be honest out in public I would say that you are more likely to get Covid from a shopping cart / buggy or bathroom door handle or fixture, gas pump, etc than from anything. Thinking how many people don't wash their hands when using the restroom, or scratch their nose / mouth etc. then touch common surfaces where others do the same is probably the most prone to spread Covid, so really IMO we'd be better off if there was a Disposable Glove mandate than a Mask Mandate as far as stopping the spread. Just my opinion.
 

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the "d" from ban[d]
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Interesting conversation I had with one of my Hmong friends this morning. One of his daughters is a infectious disease control lab tech etc. or something. And She told her dad Last night that because nothing about this is adding up. She's is starting to be of the opinion that it's being spread through the Water supply. But she's going to do her research in private before she brings it up or goes public. They are really good people. And definitely pro medicine. But very anti this vaccine etc.
That would be interesting if true. I thought fluoride and other water treatments prevented such.
 

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While I'm not saying that that can't be the case, I don't feel that it is. I also don't feel that it is generally spread by aerosol either (so general masking and esp. non N95 or better masks do virtually no good).

What I have observed working in a workplace that has few outsider's and where people work 10-12hr shifts are that when folks have gotten covid of which we've had about 15-20 cases since this pandemic began is that in no case have we had people on the same crews or shifts sequentially contract Covid, and I have now worked with two folks who have had it and have spent anywhere from 4 to 12 hours in the same room with them during the time where they likely would have started being contagious before getting full-on symptoms and being tested. Now granted the size of the room (about 20 feet square) allows for social distancing, but if folks were exhaling or depositing the virus in their vicinity in a general way we should have seen small scale "Blooms" among shifts or work groups and we have NOT. What I have observed is that in many cases it tends to run between partners and families living in the same house which indicates to me that more intimate contact is required compared to casual.

To be honest out in public I would say that you are more likely to get Covid from a shopping cart / buggy or bathroom door handle or fixture, gas pump, etc than from anything. Thinking how many people don't wash their hands when using the restroom, or scratch their nose / mouth etc. then touch common surfaces where others do the same is probably the most prone to spread Covid, so really IMO we'd be better off if there was a Disposable Glove mandate than a Mask Mandate as far as stopping the spread. Just my opinion.
Disclaimer - not a doc. Just medically inclined & self educated person who deals with immune issues.

Somewhat agree with you. Masks short of n95 are weak efforts at best honestly. I said that way back in March 2020 and have been wearing n95 continuously anywhere in public since. Same thing with the surfaces - carts, etc get wiped down. I think that is a large part of why we're getting so many cases here now - the stores quit disinfecting carts between uses & often don't have sanitizer anymore. Same thing with eating out - they aren't distancing much now & aren't being as stringent in cleaning between seatings.

The aerosol question is complicated. I do feel at least in part, it can be spread in air. Not saying that's the ONLY way - just like a cold, it In MOST places with distancing AND good air flow and under say 50 folks, it's probably safe unmasked unless you have a immune issue like myself. Above say 50 folks in a building the size of a grocery, it's dicey. It's a numbers game - 1 particle virus vs X particules air. The bigger X is, the less risk. But most places don't have good air flow so it reworks everything else. Buildings are designed to circulate air over and over, not pull fresh air in. I saw this clearly here on the city buses - it was VERY apparent early on which routes had sick folks riding because you would see 2-3 connecting buses all with drivers out sick with covid. Air flow on the buses stinks, so it makes perfect sense. And yet they've gone back to full capacity & no cleaning.
 
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