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Do you want immigration limited?

  • Limit it to Skilled Labor and to a number that does not suppress wages

    Votes: 5 13.5%
  • Limit it to people of compatible political and cultural views

    Votes: 2 5.4%
  • Limit it to no more then 200,000 people a year

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • End the "Family Reunification" scam

    Votes: 4 10.8%
  • End the "Refugee" scam

    Votes: 4 10.8%
  • End the "Diversity" mandate scam

    Votes: 4 10.8%
  • All of the above

    Votes: 23 62.2%
  • Other please explain

    Votes: 8 21.6%
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Discussion Starter #182
Which question are you answering?

You seem to be answering a questions that sounded like "DO we have too much immigration?" But I don't remember asking that. I could be wrong.
He is stating a fact.

This is true, but it does turn them into productive members of society.

By the way, why don't we educate them and turn them into high income earners, then?
No, it does not, they will make so little and so need much in the way of hand outs they will take out 3 to 5 dollars for every one they put in, that is not a net gain but a net loss.

We will not put our lives, our potential, our future and that of our children as to put people who violated our laws and burden us with their costs and actions ahead of us, in our nation.

What do you for a living?

How much do you make?



Almost all? How many are unskilled vs how many overstayed their student visas?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323916304578404960101110032

The Wall Street Journal says 40%.
Send them back, they broke the rules.

This is SO true! I am so glad you brought this up. I wondered when the light would begin to dawn on conservatives. And they said you were heartless.

Well, I expect you will join me in calling for an increase in the national minimum wage, so that unskilled workers CAN support a family.

Or at least call to repeal NAFTA, which has certainly done more to incite the flow of illegal immigrants into our country by exacerbating the **** working conditions in their own.
Really? We are heartless? We are not the ones demanding the American people be the welfare bank of the world, and swamped with the poor, unskilled, and replaced in our own nation.

Open Borders and NAFTA both are bad and must be fixed...

http://economyincrisis.org/content/illegal-immigration-and-nafta



I am trying to help the American taxpayer - if you really care about the taxpayer, make the illegals into 'permanent residents' with green cards. Let them earn money, pay taxes, buy property.

Ok, lets go over on more time.

1.They will take out more then they put in.

2.They costs of adding millions of new people will insure that any gains are overwhelmed by increase in costs.

3. Increase in crime

4. Voter suppression/fraud.

If you want to risk your future and the future of your kids, fine, but we will not.

Do you have kids?



I didn't say that - the CBO did. The larger point there is that the figure you tossed out was quite bogus.
How was it bogus?

Again, so true. Shall I make ANOTHER call for raising the minimum wage?

Repealing NAFTA?
One word

Automation, your rise the minimum wage you harm unskilled/new workers more then you have, if you can not understand this, well..


Schools are incredibly costly. $630 billion! That is almost ten times the money that JPMorgan Chase helped Bernie Madoff launder! No question about it. Schools don't even give children a liberal education - they train us to be worker bees. They don't teach critical thinking. They don't teach entrepreneurship. Some of them have completely given up teaching evolution because of the 'controversy'. We should shift the cost of education to the true beneficiaries: wall street conglomerates. Without a steady supply of trained workers, the economy would not continue to grow.
Great, lets fund Charter Schools and School Vouchers.

That IS kind of generalizing about people from third world countries, is it not?
Which is awfully close to racism. Or at least Xenophobia. It doesn't suit a person of your intelligence.
There you go about "Xenophobia", we are not "Xenophobia" ever think maybe you are a Oikophobia?

A Oikophobia is a person who is fearful or hateful of a their nation, culture, people and actively work to harm and or destroy them.

Can we not have doctors and engineers and scientists from *****ia and Sri Lanka and Mexico?
Should we have not limits on them?

Should we take them if they so not meet our standards?

Here's a Mexican we should try to recruit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_de_Icaza
he writes great software.
Hey why not just him and not the whole 3rd world?


If you want to close the borders, you really need to start with the transnationals - and repeal NAFTA. I don't know where you get the idea that promotion of immigration from the third world is treason.

That kind of hyperbole is racist dog****. You can do better than that.
Because as a elected official you to put foreign peoples, nations, cultures and their interests, their well being, and their future over your own people, nation, and culture your interests, your own well being, your own future, and even your even survival IS TREASON.

You can play the race card, and scream racist till your throat bleeds, it will do nothing to stop the wave of observations and facts that have been held back by the gate keepers of the MSM and anti intellectuals.




Look - immigration is only a problem because of the **** condition these countries are in. The PRI in Mexico has only ever lost ONE election. They treat their workers like crap. People have NO human rights. We reward this by offering them unrestricted FREE TRADE. This means that FORD or COCA-COLA can open factories down there with YOUR TAX MONEY (yes, your tax money that they received as credits or incentives or legislative earmarks) and open a factory. They can pay in crumbly dog****. They can literally work these people to death, and then - re-import their cars and sodas and sell them to you for handsome gains. No ****ing wonder people are trying to stream across the border.
So your solution to their suffering is to import them, their culture, their ideologies (which are very anti liberty, anti freedom, anti rights, anti self defense, anti justice, and just antithetical to the foundation of this nation and its principals.) and move them, in mass here?

So we may all suffer under the same failed ideals?

You think you are noble? You think you are "fair"?

You think that people who want no part in this suicide pact are "racist"?

Their nations, their leaders, their elections, their faults, are we to blame in same ways? Yeah, but it is no excuse for us to have to suffer the same dark fate of Collective poverty and suffering.

This will not go on for much longer, it will end as it should.
 

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Discussion Starter #183
Mark Steyn is another of the White Supremacists whose activities get followed by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2008/08/07/fox-news-free-speech-activist-is-infamous-extremist/

Hey, I am all for the white supremacists having their freedom of speech - but let's call them out for what they are when we see them.
Sorry, when you use the Southren Poverty Lie Center, The very same group that calls Gun Owners of America`s Larry Pratt a "Domestic Terrorist, Insurrectionist and other such chargers, it really does show that you have to use ad hominem attacks..

You just label people "racist" or "white supremacist" when they are winning the argument.
 

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Roberto, I am often in sync with your positions but I have to disagree here.
The reason to manage (i.e. limit or modulate it depending on circumstances) legal immigration is that we have a pre-defined system that we trying to keep in some form of balance or predictability in the U.S. pertaining to taxes, spending, employment and other factors. And although the U.S. is the world's 'grand experiment' of welcoming and integrating people of all backgrounds, we have worked to affect both the rate and the mix (of skills or education) of immigrants to ensure that we don't act to overload our existing systems and thus penalize those who are already here. It is why there are limits on skilled foreign individuals getting work visa's here in Silicon Valley.
To me, the questions revolve around 'how many?' per day, week or year? And at what rate do we allow people with specific skills?; people from oppressive regions who are threatened with their lives (as we have done for the past century)?; and how many total? (all are examples).
And then of course, once we decide, how do we ensure that, other than emergencies, we maintain that limit and what processes to we use to change those numbers over time? Ironically, the U.S. is failing on all of these metrics except, ironically the counting and limiting of the most skilled and educated workers that are often filling jobs, research positions, schooling opportunities or, worse yet, having completed their education are sometimes required to leave.
B

change for the worse?

newsflash: EVERYONE in this nation that isnt an american indian is the result of immigration.

legal immigration isnt changing the nation for the worse, it is keeping the nation as it has always been

there is no reasonable argument to limit LEGAL immigration.
 

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I remember in Maryland many years ago, there was an initiative to prevent illegal immigrants from obtaining mortgages. I can't imagine wanting to prevent that. If people sneak in here, work hard enough against these odds to save money for a down payment on a house, have a good job and good credit, then they are the kind of people we want to keep!
You're an idiot! You have no clue as to just how much of an existential threat illegal immigration is to America. Having lived in AZ for 38 of my 48 years I think I know more about the subject than you and your SPLC anti-American rhetoric.

Illegals coming to America have no desire to become Americans and live the American dream. They only desire to steal the American dream much like they stole & conned their way into America to begin with.

Illegals take from the system far more than they put into it. They have kids they cannot afford and rely on entitlements and public services to provide for themselves and their kids.
 

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Mexico is a hellhole because the Mexican PEOPLE made it a hellhole. Why allow invaders to break into our country and turn it into the same hellhole Mexico is?
They already have in Texas just go south of San Antonio just like Mexico.
The closer you get to Laredo the worse it gets.
 

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You're an idiot! You have no clue as to just how much of an existential threat illegal immigration is to America. Having lived in AZ for 38 of my 48 years I think I know more about the subject than you and your SPLC anti-American rhetoric.

Illegals coming to America have no desire to become Americans and live the American dream. They only desire to steal the American dream much like they stole & conned their way into America to begin with.

Illegals take from the system far more than they put into it. They have kids they cannot afford and rely on entitlements and public services to provide for themselves and their kids.


Your fear mongering has been around for at least a hundred years - and it has been wrong every time

Having lived in AZ for 38 of my 48 years I think I know more about the subject than you and your SPLC anti-American rhetoric.
dont pretend you Klansmen speak for the rest of America
 

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Discussion Starter #189
Roberto, I am usually in sync with your positions but I have to disagree here.
The reason to manage (i.e. limit or modulate it depending on circumstances) is that we have a pre-defined system in the U.S. pertaining to taxes, spending, employment and other factors. And although the U.S. is world's 'grand experiment' of welcoming and integrating people of all backgrounds, we have worked to affect both the rate and the mix (of skills or education) of immigrants to ensure that we don't act to overload our existing system and thus penalize those who are already here. It is why there are limits on skilled foreign individuals getting work visa's here in Silicon Valley.
To me, the questions revolve around 'how many?' per day, week or year. And at what rate to we allow people with specific skills?; people from oppressive regions who are threatened with their lives (as we have done for the past century); and how many total? (all examples).
And then of course, once we decide, how do we ensure that, other than emergencies, we maintain that limit and what processes to we use to change those numbers over time?
B
Should not be a reason, Anyone can claim that and it is being abused, case in point the waves of somalis in the Midwest and the crime and terrorist they bring with them.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/jihadi-fiends-grow-minnesota-article-1.1922724

http://ideas.time.com/2013/09/26/we-need-to-worry-about-somali-terrorists-in-the-u-s/

http://www.wnd.com/2014/09/u-s-government-breeding-terrorists-in-minnesota/

http://gotnews.com/muslim-american-...e-muslim-american-congressmans-district-isis/

And lets not forget these "refugees"



http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...2c2566-a8e4-11e2-a8e2-5b98cb59187f_story.html

We are not the world`s dumpster.
 

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Discussion Starter #190


Your fear mongering has been around for at least a hundred years - and it has been wrong every time

dont pretend you Klansmen speak for the rest of America
The fact you compare the classic age of immigration to the current is a non sequator.

How many welfare programs did we have before the 1964? Not many.

Also we did end mass immigration in 1924, which allowed us to assimilate those all ready here.

We also did not have immigrate demanding we adopt their culture, their language, their values, their politics, ect.

If you can not see this then it is your problem.

Really? Did the Catholics not change the electorate in the cites of the North East for the Democratic party in the late 1920`s and early 1930`s?

Did that not help FDR get elected? How did that work out?

Please keep going, I am fight for your right to call us name just because it proves you have no case but memes, revisionist history and name calling.

Remember guys it is not important these people learn, just that they lose.
 

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Discussion Starter #191
Rnmatt, What state/city do you live in now?

How old are you?

How many kids if any do you have?

I really like to put a few things in preservative for you.
 

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Your fear mongering has been around for at least a hundred years - and it has been wrong every time

dont pretend you Klansmen speak for the rest of America
So now we're "Klansmen." As I posted, if this was a northern border problem, there would be no problem with liberals about doing whatever was needed to stop the invaders.
 

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rnmatt is a stereotypical uninformed leftist who is immune to common sense, facts, and the truth.

Last time I checked (about a year ago) the Arizona Dept of Corrections website illegals from Mexico and OTM Hispanics accounted for 40% of the Hispanic prison population.

The Tucson Unified School district (a liberal stronghold in AZ) had to be sued by the AZ Attorney General to stop teaching anti-American, anti-white, pro ethnic cleansing, Reconquista rhetoric to high school students in the form of a "Mexican cultural" class.

rnmatt is a useful idiot for those who hate America.
 

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Discussion Starter #195
rnmatt is a stereotypical uninformed leftist who is immune to common sense, facts, and the truth.

Last time I checked (about a year ago) the Arizona Dept of Corrections website illegals from Mexico and OTM Hispanics accounted for 40% of the Hispanic prison population.

The Tucson Unified School district (a liberal stronghold in AZ) had to be sued by the AZ Attorney General to stop teaching anti-American, anti-white, pro ethnic cleansing, Reconquista rhetoric to high school students in the form of a "Mexican cultural" class.

rnmatt is a useful idiot for those who hate America.
I bet he lives in a very small town, where the train wreak of leftism has yet to ruin everything he holds dear....
 

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No, it does not, they will make so little and so need much in the way of hand outs they will take out 3 to 5 dollars for every one they put in, that is not a net gain but a net loss.
Dude, making up damages that illegal immigrants will cause, does not make it more real. Damn. Public school really did a number on you people.

What do you for a living?

How much do you make?
How could these answers possibly help your argument?

Really? We are heartless? We are not the ones demanding the American people be the welfare bank of the world, and swamped with the poor, unskilled, and replaced in our own nation.

Open Borders and NAFTA both are bad and must be fixed...
WOW - something we actually agree upon.

Can't do one without the other.

Ok, lets go over on more time.

1.They will take out more then they put in.
This is false.

It has long been known that immigrants to the United States become millionaires at four times the rate of native born citizens. Ambition is what drives these people here.

2.They costs of adding millions of new people will insure that any gains are overwhelmed by increase in costs.
People who come over aren't a homogenous bag of needs and skills.

There are intelligent discussions being had here about skill mixes and educational backgrounds. These are not static in a person's life however.

I work with nurses who have been engineers in other countries. Some people I know put themselves through school working unskilled labor jobs and now are computer programmers.
3. Increase in crime
Another FALSE one. I gave you the Stanford paper on how legalization of immigration decreases crime rates.

The facts about immigration and crime are these:
As immigration has skyrocketed, the crime rate continues to fall.
Immigrants commit crimes at less than the rate of native born citizens.

4. Voter suppression/fraud.
Permanent residents don't vote.

If you are worried about fraud - take the plank from thine own eye before attempting to remove the mote from your neighbor's eye

GOP voter fraud humiliation was a 50 year old executive in WI:
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/24/gop...ns_out_wisconsins_worst_case_is_a_republican/


If you want to risk your future and the future of your kids, fine, but we will not.

Do you have kids?
Yes

Two of them are immigrants, as a matter of fact.
 

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Disagree.
But to put a finer point on it, if we're stupid fools and we admit anyone who makes such a claim, without any analysis, investigation or search for other details then we deserve what we get. But that doesn't mean the concept is wrong.
There are many of people who were admitted to the U.S. because they most literally faced mass murders, starvation or torture as a race, religion or a nationality and we opened the doors to ensure that such atrocities would not happen. And I accept that there is a lot of grey in the determination of such threats. But in history Russians were being slaughtered, Cambodians were summarily murdered, Irish were facing starvation. We let them in. And few look back and think it was wrong. That they were faking it or that we weren't better for it.
You can name any individual or individuals that violate the concept. These two were psychotic monsters. And did all the rest of their people commit the same or plan to? It's just baiting without any substance behind it. More ironic still is that you are criticizing someone who agrees that there should be limits. Amazing.
B


 

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Discussion Starter #199
Dude, making up damages that illegal immigrants will cause, does not make it more real. Damn. Public school really did a number on you people.
I thought government run schools were the best and far better then private/charter schools?

How am I making up damages, they are very, very, very real, ask anyone who lives in the Southwest?

How could these answers possibly help your argument?
They might, but to be honest I want to show you position allows you ignore the effects of your politics and their outcomes.




WOW - something we actually agree upon.

Can't do one without the other.
No, you can secure the border without first repealing NAFTA, how you can think such things is beyond me.

This is false.

It has long been known that immigrants to the United States become millionaires at four times the rate of native born citizens. Ambition is what drives these people here.
Really? Lets do some math, shall we.

http://www.cis.org/High-Cost-of-Cheap-Labor

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/12-6-immigration.pdf

http://www.heritage.org/research/re...ful-immigrants-and-amnesty-to-the-us-taxpayer

http://online.barrons.com/articles/the-true-cost-of-legalizing-illegal-immigrants-1417843169

http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-u-s-taxpayers

This report estimates the annual costs of illegal immigration at the federal, state and local level to be about $113 billion; nearly $29 billion at the federal level and $84 billion at the state and local level.

So yeah, that generalization is wrong.



People who come over aren't a homogenous bag of needs and skills.

There are intelligent discussions being had here about skill mixes and educational backgrounds. These are not static in a person's life however.

I work with nurses who have been engineers in other countries. Some people I know put themselves through school working unskilled labor jobs and now are computer programmers.
Great for them, they are not the majority how ever. Anecdotal evidence will not change reality.

Another FALSE one. I gave you the Stanford paper on how legalization of immigration decreases crime rates.
Stanford can claim anything they wish, does not make it true.

The facts about immigration and crime are these:
As immigration has skyrocketed, the crime rate continues to fall.
Immigrants commit crimes at less than the rate of native born citizens.
Really? Tell that to these stats

http://www.constitutionparty.com/illegal-alien-crime-and-violence-by-the-numbers-were-all-victims/

http://cis.org/ImmigrantCrime

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ealing-illegal-immigrant-crime-data-suggests/

http://aquila.usm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1124&context=honors_theses

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/03/18/the-rise-of-federal-immigration-crimes/

So someone is lying, leftist who want to use the massive flood of 3rd world people for entitlement voters or facts,stats, and law enforcement?

Permanent residents don't vote.

If you are worried about fraud - take the plank from thine own eye before attempting to remove the mote from your neighbor's eye

GOP voter fraud humiliation was a 50 year old executive in WI:
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/24/gop...ns_out_wisconsins_worst_case_is_a_republican/
So you are telling me this never happened?


Good! I hope he serves full time for his crime!

You assume because he is republican I do not care? WOW!

http://www.nationalreview.com/campa...rge-numbers-non-citizens-vote-us-jim-geraghty

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christ...oses-letting-illegal-immigrants-vote-n1852520

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2014...ting-rights-medicaid-licenses-under-new-bill/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howar...from-illegal-immigrants-voting_b_1418523.html

Illegal Caught Voting

http://conservativetribune.com/illegals-caught-voting-in-ohio/

http://www.westernjournalism.com/il...ing-florida-vast-numbers/#hQxyWOteUlJjHFT7.97

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/10/hundreds-of-illegals-caught-voting-in-maryland/

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...012-presidential-election-in-key-swing-state/

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/18/illegal-immigrant-arrested-nevada-voter-fraud/

Now, I will ask you again are illegal immigration not voting in our elections?

How many is threat to you?

Yes

Two of them are immigrants, as a matter of fact.
How many do you have in total?

How old are they?

What kind of nation do you want to leave for them?

A 3rd world slum nation were our rights are spat upon and voters are imported to stack the deck for staist who have to import people who have not attachment or love for our nation and culture?
 
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