push comes to shove i hear they're tasty
Horses
I have 3 horses and if worse came to worse, we could pack them up and ride them to our bug out location (we plan on bugging in). Anyone else planning on using horses?? and if so, any ideas?
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2 Horses and 2 llamas. Leaves a lot of options available. Can carry an extra 700 pounds by leading, i wouldn't ride, wastes extra weight. Of course it allows riding uses too. Not to mention if it was a book of Eli scenario, you have meals on hoofs.
I have 4 horses and a mule. I don't plan on "bugging out" at all for 99.9 % of situations. But If I do have to move, I can take them out the back pasture and be in the national forest in under 3 miles.
Neighbor has a draft.. good for pulling. Will be handy to fetch water if needed.
I think of horses differently. These things eat a lot of consumables, so they are expensive to keep. They have vet needs, food and exercise requirements, and need specialized tack. For many scenarios this is a huge waste of resources. However, IF you are planning for a serious long term lack of services, horses and other livestock are a good investment for one reason -- unlike 4x4s an tractors, they reproduce. So, be sure and get a breeding pair and a plan to develop a herd for trading purposes. Given just a few pairs and some reasonable luck, you'll go from two to 5 or 10 in just a few seasons. In the mean time, you have heavy tractor power, mobility, and if necessary, meat and milk. In certain situations they make sense. But for many folks, the goal of getting large livestock for survival ALONE is probably a bridge too far. Better to focus on other things first. If you wind up on a farm with lots of grass and space in the barn, horses and mules might be just the right investment.
I have had my horses for bout 8 years. Have a farm and a 400 acre bug out location will be sufficient for their eating needs, which also takes care of the exercise. Yes, I have a yearling that our horses produced. Vet bills are not high if you know what you are doing, you can get most of the meds at the local feed store and keep refridgerated. Also have the barn, tack, etc. I have chickens and looking into pigs. I see that it lots of people could not have them, but in my case, I have the space and set up already. I was thinking, pack everything on the 2 to ride and back and pony the third one. I was considering a covered wagon, but I find that unrealistic for going over rivers, streams, hard terrain, etc. ideas??
Hey if it was an option I'd love horses, but we dont have either room or the experiance with them. There are more then a few farms in the area with a plethera of horses though. Last time we had a bad storm and several roads were closed everyone with some were out and about. It's great to have a tractor/car/friend/transport all in one.
I'm not sure that I follow your logic or arithmetic. You say by walking rather than riding, you can carry an extra 700 pounds. Admitting that I have no experience with llamas, I dont know what they are capable of. I would'nt imagine though that they could carry as much as a horse, which is something that I am very familiar with. Anyone who has ever packed will tell you that the most you should pack on a horse is 200 pounds. And yes, someone will ask, what about a person who weighs over that riding. A person horseback is alot different than a horse packing the same weight. When you pack and pack right, that weight is tied down securely and very snug. If the pack moves, you have not done a good job in your packing. An overloaded or poorly packed horse will come up lame and with bad saddle sores and will leave you on the side of the trail with no way to move your gear. A person riding does all of his moving and maneuvering on a saddle that is tied down snug. If it isnt, again, you will sore your horse. Anyhow, a rider can help the horse carrying his weight by maintaining his balance. A pack cant do this. It is dead weight. If a person is unfamiliar with horsepacking, please take a class and learn to do it properly before you start. Your horse will thank you.2 Horses and 2 llamas. Leaves a lot of options available. Can carry an extra 700 pounds by leading, i wouldn't ride, wastes extra weight. Of course it allows riding uses too. Not to mention if it was a book of Eli scenario, you have meals on hoofs.
The optimum size for a packhorse is around 14 hands and around 1000-1050 pounds. The reason for this is ease of packing and getting the most use per pounds of horseflesh. It is much easier to pack a smaller horse compared to trying to load and properly lash down a pack on a draft type horse. Also, you will not be able to pack enough weight on a drafthorse to justify their feed needs. Smaller horses are easier to pack, easier on feed and easier to care for than the bigger draft breeds.
I hope this helps.
Tex
Yes, I know 200 pounds each is normal. But if I needed to bug out I could load an extra 25 each, as you said make sure it is properly loaded. The llamas can do 100 plus each. And I added a 150 pounds for humans. So I was including all animals including humans. I've practiced with this load many times before. Yes, I have learned from experienced people.
I say that I wouldn't ride, since by walking and packing our own BOB's we can max out the animals and carry another 50 pounds each comfortably. So total for a full bug out can actually be 800 pounds, but I was keeping it down 100 pounds, for safety.
So yes I know 200 pounds for the horses, but a true bug out scenario to where you might not be coming back would make you push the limits. Of course you would have to be careful and keep a close eye on the animals, it's not like I haven't ever done this before.
So sorry that I didn't specify how I came to this weight but please don't jump on people before you get the whole story. Sorry I didn't specify I was including humans.
I say that I wouldn't ride, since by walking and packing our own BOB's we can max out the animals and carry another 50 pounds each comfortably. So total for a full bug out can actually be 800 pounds, but I was keeping it down 100 pounds, for safety.
So yes I know 200 pounds for the horses, but a true bug out scenario to where you might not be coming back would make you push the limits. Of course you would have to be careful and keep a close eye on the animals, it's not like I haven't ever done this before.
So sorry that I didn't specify how I came to this weight but please don't jump on people before you get the whole story. Sorry I didn't specify I was including humans.
But how to care for them long term?
easy to care for them long term is you have enough grass, hay, etc. I have cared for mine for 8 years. If you learn to do it yourself, it is better. Did I understand your question?
Research how they were taken care of hundreds of years ago.
When I had my horses I took care of them they way my dad taught me.
Feed them a plug of tobacco once a month for deworming. Feed them their grass and hay and feed them some grain every great once in awhile for a treat but not all that often. Trim their hooves yourself. etc
When I had my horses I took care of them they way my dad taught me.
Feed them a plug of tobacco once a month for deworming. Feed them their grass and hay and feed them some grain every great once in awhile for a treat but not all that often. Trim their hooves yourself. etc
Swen I apologize for sounding as if I were jumping on you. I honestly did not understand what you meant exactly. I went into the whole explanation for those here who will read this and have no.idea what they are doing. Not knowing whether or not you had ever packed before, I erred on the side of caution and just tried to pass on some info. We have all seen the keyboard commandos on here who will have something all planned out and have absolutely no idea what is what. Some of the ideas people on here have about horses is positively spooky at times.
Agains Swen, sorry for coming across a little gruff.
Have a good day.
Tex
Agains Swen, sorry for coming across a little gruff.
Have a good day.
Tex
Actually that's a bad idea for anyone who doesn't know anything about horses to begin with.
So, be sure and get a breeding pair and a plan to develop a herd for trading purposes. Given just a few pairs and some reasonable luck, you'll go from two to 5 or 10 in just a few seasons.
In one sense, yes it is bad for new horse owners -- but then again, horses tend to breed in nature without much help! I certainly would not recommend green horses get horses just for this purpose; I only mention it as it pertains to people who are making them part of survival plans. In that case, it's rather obvious that breeding population matters. Presumably you'd get training and know-how before the SHTF. If not, OJT from a book and an old-timer will suffice.Actually that's a bad idea for anyone who doesn't know anything about horses to begin with.
OP:
What are you doing about self sufficient winter feed?
What are you doing about self sufficient winter feed?
In Some parts of Texas that can be done without a barn however Round bales of hay are the usual method.OP:
What are you doing about self sufficient winter feed?
most people who ALREADY own horses before SHTF know these things. And they know that having "breeding Pairs' isn't all that good either in many cases. Horse market down, hay prices up etc. You can always find someone else with the other half of a breeding pair if you need it, but one individual doesn't NEED breeding stock in the first place because that opens a whole new can of worms with foaling and training and other factors.
In one sense, yes it is bad for new horse owners -- but then again, horses tend to breed in nature without much help! I certainly would not recommend green horses get horses just for this purpose; I only mention it as it pertains to people who are making them part of survival plans. In that case, it's rather obvious that breeding population matters. Presumably you'd get training and know-how before the SHTF. If not, OJT from a book and an old-timer will suffice.
Unless you use horses, mules, or donkeys on a regular basis to the point where they earn their keep (pre-shtf), they're a money pit. They eat more than cattle, require more maintenance than cattle, and have a smaller market than cattle.
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