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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone,

Thought I'd post on subject that I've been doing some reading up on and share some of my thoughts. Please feel free to chime in.

Objective of my post:
To help people to realize what survival will really take and and to learn from more experienced survivalists (not necessarily me, I'm a newb)

My thoughts:
I'm often concerned as a read posts, research on the interwebz, and read books that it is far too easy to think that knowledge is akin to skill. Although knowledge is good it is not experience and experience over time builds skill. I wonder then how common is it that people begin thinking that because they have knowledge about how to survive they haven't really considered some of the things it will 'really' take to survive or built the skill to do so.

Examples to consider:

Bugging Out
Are we really physically and mentally prepared to leave everything we know, own and have become comfortable with and maybe never coming back? Do we know how or where we're going to procure food, water and shelter? If we're successful in those three things; what next? Are we a lone wolf? How will we defend ourselves against mauraders or ill intended people? What if there is more of them than us? What if we get hurt, how will we tend to ourselves? What if you have young children or less than fit people in your group? How will you protect them? Will they be up to the task of buggin out?

Buggin out would NOT be easy for most, I know it wouldn't be easy for me. A few days camping and I'm ready to call it quits and head for the shower and a nice bed. That's not even considering that in a bug out scenario one might be hoofing 5-15 miles a day; especially if your just trying to get out of a danger area.

We can buy tools and supplies now, but will they run out, wear down or break in a SHTF scenario, how will we replenish them?

Buggin out, seems to me, a very very last ditch thing to consider. Think refugees on the side of the road trying to get to somewhere, not even really sure where; unless you have established a Bug Out Location (BOL). Even then you have to start considering sustainability and protection.

Buggin In
Much more likely; unless of course our SHTF scenario is so bad that we can't stay

If we chose to Bug In, can we really protect what we have stored? Our supplies; food, water, medical, etc..? What are we 'really' prepared to do to protect our loved ones (this one is easier I think to define what we'd do) or our supplies? Would it be wiser to survive a large invasion of marauders and maybe temporarily bug out of a our BOL? or stay and fight? Think about that. Most people, myself included have never killed another human being. My father, a vietnam vet has, he said it changes you, some puke, some go into depression, some lose it and go dark.. Have you really thought about this? **** I feel bad after killing something as big as a javelina or coyote...although short lived, let alone another human. I truly don't know how I would react; I guess I won't until I'm faced with it...Hopefully never.

Are we truly prepared to Bug In, what about our waste...where will be dispose of it. How long will our supplies last? Can we create an environment of sustainability? I think this is why so many serious preppers bug out to their BOL now; before something happens. They buy property and land and learn to live that way before they're forced to. It's obviously a tough thing to consider for many. I'm sure that length of time becomes a factor for most in their Bug In Location; eventually you' might need to move on..but where to?

Physical Shape, Conditioning and Well-being

Are most really in the kind of shape it would take to survive an extended SHTF scenario. Do you have diabetes, or some other factor that requires medicine or constant medical attention? Are there people in your group or family that do?

Are you really in physical shape to Bug Out, to take a 30-80 lb pack and hike 10 miles a day with limited water and food calories? What about those with addictions; alcohol, nicotine; you name it...within a day or two of not having those things life will begin to suck. Mental attitude will change, not to mention someone that smokes a pack a day won't doing too well when stress hits the fan and they have to exert high levels of physical exertion to survive.

I often see, myself included, people buying trauma kits, quickclots, israeli bandages, etc. Do you really know how to use those things? Have you had training? I personally am considering becoming a volunteer firefighter for a couple reasons; giving back to community and the experiences I'll learn from. I read something the other day about someone stuffing an open laceration with toilet paper and wrapping it with gauze bandages...BAD...I also read that the tiny parts that will break off from toilet paper will enter the bloodstream and can cause stroke. There are so many things that most of us don't know about medical treatment. Are we really being honest about what we know and don't know?

So, in conclusion, I know I haven't covered all things we should be honestly asking ourselves however hopefully I've given you something to think about.

Prepping and survival training is a way of life for many, for others it's an insurance policy to everyday life for that OMG the SHTF scenario has happenned!...I am personally working on addressing alot of what I brought up above. It's tough, it's hard to be truly honest with yourself. But in my opinion, if you are really wanting to survive during and after a SHTF scenerio the things I"ve brought up need to be considered, mitigated and planned for as much as having the right gear in your bags, car or home.

Thanks for reading, please post your thoughts, ideas, suggestions.

Anonymous Prepper
 

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I agree knowledge alone does not translate into experience and skill. I believe people in general overestimate their abilities and underestimate how bad hardships will be. I also believe people either take for granted or overestimate their health and fitness. At least preppers recognize the need and to varying degrees are doing something about it. But it takes more than shopping for camping gear at walmart and sitting on the couch watching naked and afraid on tv. That's why I think if things ever do slip over the edge then the world will be an extremely violent and unforgiving place.

I agree with your comments on the need to be honest with ourselves. IMHO that is the weakest link for most of society.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply ******

Yeah I was reading a paper the other day, won't say where I found it, but they were stating that in national scenario such as an EMP, plague outbreak, financial collapse that 8/10 people in the US would be dead within two weeks.

I thought that was a little harsh, but when you start factoring in medical conditions, health and age, lack of ability to protect oneself and general unprepared nature of most US citizens it almost can be conceivable.

I'm reading a book right now, One Second After, written by William Forstchen; who apparently worked for years in the Military College. The book tells a frightening story of how quickly people begin to die and how delicate our infrastructure of society really is.

I have to believe a post SHTF world would take the US down to a third world level and although millions of people live in those environments most Americans are not prepared for it or have they experienced it (myself included). It's one thing to grow up only getting maybe one bowl of rice every couple days another to have to learn to adjust after a life of abundance
 

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Thanks for the reply ******

Yeah I was reading a paper the other day, won't say where I found it, but they were stating that in national scenario such as an EMP, plague outbreak, financial collapse that 8/10 people in the US would be dead within two weeks.

I thought that was a little harsh, but when you start factoring in medical conditions, health and age, lack of ability to protect oneself and general unprepared nature of most US citizens it almost can be conceivable.

I'm reading a book right now, One Second After, written by William Forstchen; who apparently worked for years in the Military College. The book tells a frightening story of how quickly people begin to die and how delicate our infrastructure of society really is.

I have to believe a post SHTF worl d would take the US down to a third world level and although millions of people live in those environments most Americans are not prepared for it or have they experienced it (myself included). It's one thing to grow up only getting maybe one bowl of rice every couple days another to have to learn to adjust after a life of abundance


Agree with you 100% . In my situation -I'm 78 wife is 73 ,some minor health issues ,present house/location was developed to be my BOL ,have food and stuff to last a while - being over run by bad guys is my major concern . Seeing as how hitting the road would be a death sentence to us , I have the following idea in mind . This spring a shallow well is being installed , outside , next to my house . I'm estimating 90 to 100 % of my neighbors will be with out water if the electric goes off and stays off . They will be welcome to come to my well and get their water . I think they will join together with me to protect OUR water supply from attack by BAD guys . If it does not work I won't be any more dead than I would be on the road . Failing to plan is planing to fail .
 

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I think one thing preppers aren't honest about and may cause them problems, is leaving. We've worked a long time, sacrificed to put back and build up stocks and developed an attitude of self reliance and that imo, can be detrimental. People say if things get bad, I'll bug out. I think most won't. Humans are creatures of habit. We like our comfort zones and what is familiar. I think most of us will hesitate when we should jump because we will not want to leave our lifestyle behind. Going along with that is people thinking they can be an island and take care of themselves. I don't give a rip how many guns you have, how many are in your group, how much food and equipment you have - things will run out, the bad guy will overrun you, equipment will break down. Not trying to be pessimistic just saying safety in numbers. Some say they can be cold hearted and refuse to help others. Well, you might find yourself creating your own enemies. I would not want to end up in a situation where my neighbors - the have nots - become my enemies because they smell my food, know I have preps but I've refused to help them. Even if they don't attack you, they will not be inclined to run to your aid if you are attacked.

Any of us can become refugees, imo. The best laid plans can fail. Your out of the way, think you are safe and unnoticed bol, retreat, homestead, farm, etc. can all of a sudden become very visible and sought after. We recently had a 1,000 year flood. I thank God my property is on high ground but many people around my area were not so lucky. They lost everything - even the preppers. It's not unheard of for an earthquake to strike around these parts. Tornadoes happen. And all of us live with the threat of fire. It's not just bad guys. Sometimes the danger is nature and we don't control that. I saw my town of almost 1 million people go from drought to being under in places 10 ft. of water or more in 2 days. And all that water didn't happen the 2nd day. What I'm saying is all that water started a historic flood within hours. After the 1st day bridges and highways started to fail and by the 2nd day the flood affected my entire state and in places it was impossible to go anywhere. I don't know about anyone here but there is no way I could move everything I own within hours. Sure, I could have bugged out with some supplies and I was prepared to do it but I would have left behind the majority of my preps. I think the preppers who say they wouldn't help anyone should think .... I might be the one needing a hand up. It's hard to imagine but it could happen.
 

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Hey everyone,

Thought I'd post on subject that I've been doing some reading up on and share some of my thoughts. Please feel free to chime in.

Objective of my post:
To help people to realize what survival will really take and and to learn from more experienced survivalists (not necessarily me, I'm a newb)

My thoughts:
I'm often concerned as a read posts, research on the interwebz, and read books that it is far too easy to think that knowledge is akin to skill. Although knowledge is good it is not experience and experience over time builds skill. I wonder then how common is it that people begin thinking that because they have knowledge about how to survive they haven't really considered some of the things it will 'really' take to survive or built the skill to do so.

Examples to consider:

Bugging Out
Are we really physically and mentally prepared to leave everything we know, own and have become comfortable with and maybe never coming back? Do we know how or where we're going to procure food, water and shelter? If we're successful in those three things; what next? Are we a lone wolf? How will we defend ourselves against mauraders or ill intended people? What if there is more of them than us? What if we get hurt, how will we tend to ourselves? What if you have young children or less than fit people in your group? How will you protect them? Will they be up to the task of buggin out?

Buggin out would NOT be easy for most, I know it wouldn't be easy for me. A few days camping and I'm ready to call it quits and head for the shower and a nice bed. That's not even considering that in a bug out scenario one might be hoofing 5-15 miles a day; especially if your just trying to get out of a danger area.

We can buy tools and supplies now, but will they run out, wear down or break in a SHTF scenario, how will we replenish them?

Buggin out, seems to me, a very very last ditch thing to consider. Think refugees on the side of the road trying to get to somewhere, not even really sure where; unless you have established a Bug Out Location (BOL). Even then you have to start considering sustainability and protection.

Buggin In
Much more likely; unless of course our SHTF scenario is so bad that we can't stay

If we chose to Bug In, can we really protect what we have stored? Our supplies; food, water, medical, etc..? What are we 'really' prepared to do to protect our loved ones (this one is easier I think to define what we'd do) or our supplies? Would it be wiser to survive a large invasion of marauders and maybe temporarily bug out of a our BOL? or stay and fight? Think about that. Most people, myself included have never killed another human being. My father, a vietnam vet has, he said it changes you, some puke, some go into depression, some lose it and go dark.. Have you really thought about this? **** I feel bad after killing something as big as a javelina or coyote...although short lived, let alone another human. I truly don't know how I would react; I guess I won't until I'm faced with it...Hopefully never.

Are we truly prepared to Bug In, what about our waste...where will be dispose of it. How long will our supplies last? Can we create an environment of sustainability? I think this is why so many serious preppers bug out to their BOL now; before something happens. They buy property and land and learn to live that way before they're forced to. It's obviously a tough thing to consider for many. I'm sure that length of time becomes a factor for most in their Bug In Location; eventually you' might need to move on..but where to?

Physical Shape, Conditioning and Well-being

Are most really in the kind of shape it would take to survive an extended SHTF scenario. Do you have diabetes, or some other factor that requires medicine or constant medical attention? Are there people in your group or family that do?

Are you really in physical shape to Bug Out, to take a 30-80 lb pack and hike 10 miles a day with limited water and food calories? What about those with addictions; alcohol, nicotine; you name it...within a day or two of not having those things life will begin to suck. Mental attitude will change, not to mention someone that smokes a pack a day won't doing too well when stress hits the fan and they have to exert high levels of physical exertion to survive.

I often see, myself included, people buying trauma kits, quickclots, israeli bandages, etc. Do you really know how to use those things? Have you had training? I personally am considering becoming a volunteer firefighter for a couple reasons; giving back to community and the experiences I'll learn from. I read something the other day about someone stuffing an open laceration with toilet paper and wrapping it with gauze bandages...BAD...I also read that the tiny parts that will break off from toilet paper will enter the bloodstream and can cause stroke. There are so many things that most of us don't know about medical treatment. Are we really being honest about what we know and don't know?

So, in conclusion, I know I haven't covered all things we should be honestly asking ourselves however hopefully I've given you something to think about.

Prepping and survival training is a way of life for many, for others it's an insurance policy to everyday life for that OMG the SHTF scenario has happenned!...I am personally working on addressing alot of what I brought up above. It's tough, it's hard to be truly honest with yourself. But in my opinion, if you are really wanting to survive during and after a SHTF scenerio the things I"ve brought up need to be considered, mitigated and planned for as much as having the right gear in your bags, car or home.

Thanks for reading, please post your thoughts, ideas, suggestions.

Anonymous Prepper
Agreed! Humans are creatures of habit and enjoy building comfort zones then living in them. We tend to become warm, cozy, and complacent in a real hurry. I've had "preps" for many years but have been "resting on my laurels" for the last several years. I've lost touch of my original plans for survival and have simply gotten lazy. I've put too much trust in my things while I play video games; watch TV; eat comfort foods; and sleep. Threads like this one are good reminders that we can't prepare for disasters 10 years ago and hope to survive a year from now.

I do know one thing ... bugging out of the Denver area in an emergency will be the LAST thing I do unless I have no other choice. The road system around here is horrible even during the best of times. Everyone and their sister will be running for the mountains (all at the exact same time) if disaster strikes. They'll all be sitting ducks and most of them probably only have an 1/8th of a tank of fuel at this very moment.
 
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I think one thing preppers aren't honest about and may cause them problems, is leaving. We've worked a long time, sacrificed to put back and build up stocks and developed an attitude of self reliance and that imo, can be detrimental. People say if things get bad, I'll bug out. I think most won't. Humans are creatures of habit. We like our comfort zones and what is familiar. I think most of us will hesitate when we should jump because we will not want to leave our lifestyle behind. Going along with that is people thinking they can be an island and take care of themselves. I don't give a rip how many guns you have, how many are in your group, how much food and equipment you have - things will run out, the bad guy will overrun you, equipment will break down. Not trying to be pessimistic just saying safety in numbers. Some say they can be cold hearted and refuse to help others. Well, you might find yourself creating your own enemies. I would not want to end up in a situation where my neighbors - the have nots - become my enemies because they smell my food, know I have preps but I've refused to help them. Even if they don't attack you, they will not be inclined to run to your aid if you are attacked.

Any of us can become refugees, imo. The best laid plans can fail. Your out of the way, think you are safe and unnoticed bol, retreat, homestead, farm, etc. can all of a sudden become very visible and sought after. We recently had a 1,000 year flood. I thank God my property is on high ground but many people around my area were not so lucky. They lost everything - even the preppers. It's not unheard of for an earthquake to strike around these parts. Tornadoes happen. And all of us live with the threat of fire. It's not just bad guys. Sometimes the danger is nature and we don't control that. I saw my town of almost 1 million people go from drought to being under in places 10 ft. of water or more in 2 days. And all that water didn't happen the 2nd day. What I'm saying is all that water started a historic flood within hours. After the 1st day bridges and highways started to fail and by the 2nd day the flood affected my entire state and in places it was impossible to go anywhere. I don't know about anyone here but there is no way I could move everything I own within hours. Sure, I could have bugged out with some supplies and I was prepared to do it but I would have left behind the majority of my preps. I think the preppers who say they wouldn't help anyone should think .... I might be the one needing a hand up. It's hard to imagine but it could happen.
Wow. I just read your post after posting mine. I promise that I didn't copy you!! :)
 
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I read your post and found it to be helpful. Having said that, the precursor to having to do any of the things you spoke of, is that the S*** has definitely hit the fan and we have ALL lost virtually everything we had that held us to our old life. At that point, age, health, attitudes, station in life, ownership of all goods except survival tools will mean very little. We will do the best we can, and having done that, die sooner or later.

I have long thought that producing peace in places like the Middle East, Africa, and other "war torn" areas, will never be possible until those places change their ways and allow a Middle Class to rise into being. Don't believe for a second that WE can force this to happen. We proved in Iraq that they have to do it for themselves.

In America, if we have something about our neighbor that we don't like, we simply ignore them. You and I don't go and kill our neighbors or burn their homes down for many reasons (we like to think we're much too civilized for that - I call that BS), but the primary reason we USUALLY hold back on those thoughts is that, as Middle Class Americans, is that we have way too much to lose to go out and terrorize the neighborhood, burning and looting.

If you look at the riots and burnings that happen in our country, or anywhere else, for that matter, are they being done by teachers, engineers, lawyers, truck drivers, or CPAs? No, they are being done typically by large groups (in some cases gangs) who are at the BOTTOM of the economic food chain and they have absolutely NOTHING to lose.

We now have a government that seems to be completely driven to destroy the American Middle Class. If they are successful, and if they get another 8 years in office, it won't be pitchforks and torches that come this time, which is why they are so determined to disarm the American public.

Don't forget to vote this time - it may be our last chance.

WW
 

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I think you're underestimating the average prepper on this forum, and people's grit when given no other options. They'll do stuff, they just won't enjoy life while doing it. Not being happy is not the same as not surviving. At worst you'll be reduced to the life of a refugee. Oddly enough they don't all just give up and kill themselves.

That said, I think you're also overlooking a complication. That being cowardice. As someone who's charged into dangerous confrontations before without my own side having military police behind them to throw down desertion punishment should someone go backward instead of forward... you can not even trust your closest friends and family, or maybe even yourself. People as a whole are cowards and given the option of a fight or giving up something they hold precious, they'll consistently hand it over and then start searching for excuses.

In the civilian world you don't need to worry about the tactics and equipment of your 5 person group against their 5 person group. You need to worry about 4 of your people running or surrendering and only 1 of theirs once the confrontation comes.

I heard it a thousand times, "I know how important it is, but I don't want to get hurt!"
 

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Even after all the info on this forum I'm still seeing delusional posters . Think they can BO , with a 100lb. pack , live off the land , hunt for their food , etc. . Then there's the ones that think if they have the most and best guns and tons of ammo they are prepared . :xeye:

As for me - No where to bug out to . No BOL . No delusions of heading for the woods and surviving off the land .
In my younger days maybe . I had the strength and endurance to possibly survive on the road or live in the woods . At least for a while

For most of us senior citizens bugging in is our only reasonable choice

That said , if I was forced to bug out , I have relatively better skills and mindset than most sheeple .
As for being in shape . I don't have any major issues and I'm in pretty good shape for my age . But once you get to your 50's 60's you slow down and your health can get bad really fast .
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I think you're underestimating the average prepper on this forum, and people's grit when given no other options. They'll do stuff, they just won't enjoy life while doing it. Not being happy is not the same as not surviving. At worst you'll be reduced to the life of a refugee. Oddly enough they don't all just give up and kill themselves....

Thanks Colt!

Please know I'm not judging anyone; I do believe that any prepper is better prepared to withstand SHTF simply for having 'thought about it' and done something to prepare. I do not or will not advocate people 'giving up' committing suicide, life it too precious. My wish is that we all learn to live with less, live more like our grandparents and great grandparents. I live in SD right now, not by choice, but that's another story to tell. I am reminded of how my family came to this part of the country, some lived in semi underground earth berm shelters, fought off indians, lived out of a stage coaches and knew how to survive harsh conditions. Hell even my grandmother at the age of 12 survived a month long stage coach ride across midwest until they settled in West River side of SoDAK. Those were survivors and yes, of course they didn't die off they thrived. So it is possible.

My biggest concern is our 'learned' behaviors, our adoption and acceptance of the niceties of the world; electricity, running water, sewage disposal, grocery stores with 2-3 days of food supplies, doctors and medicine readily available and of course the giant oil consuming vehicles we've all come to love and admire.

In my original post, I am trying to call attention to some of the questions that I think we should consider; have done some thinking about them. Maybe even implemented mitigation to reduce the impact on our chances of survival.

Once again, thanks for your post!

Anonymous Prepper

POST ADDITION:

Prepping is more than a state of mind, it really needs to be a way of life. A way of thinking acting behaving and living. Now, I'm not advocating that one should hurry and go 'off-grid' and start growing their own rice fields, although that wouldn't be a bad idea. I do think more and more of us need to prepare mentally for this kind of life; living with less and being physically and mentally prepared to maybe get by with less; much less for extended periods of time.

In some parts of the world, electricity is only run for one hour a day, food is rationed to communities in very small capacities. How would we adjust to that?

Another thought I had recently, hunting for survival, eating game meat.

Concerns I have:

1) Right now, game hunting is managed, you get a license, a tag, you go hunt. No matter what some will say, there are many hunters that go all season without finding/bagging the game they were looking for. Even experienced hunters.

2) When hunting is no longer managed by law or the laws abided by; there will be a massive depletion of resources to hunt in a very short period of time. Consider this; in a SHTF scenario every tom **** and harry will be snagging those deer, coyotes, squirrels, you name it. Even wanderers simply hoofing through the backwoods or country sides will grab any wildlife they can because they may not know where their next meal will come from. Interesting note that history can show us, during the Great Depression, wildlife species had some of the lowest declines in history. Now a lot of that was due to natural reasons such as drought, but a great deal of it was from dirt poor families having to kill what they would eat. Reality and history has shown us that this isn't sustainable in most parts of the populated world these days and population was far less back then.

3) Think about huge cities where infrastructure has broken down, many will leave, go mobile, heading for the hills and country sides, toting along with them their weapons. There will be hundreds of thousands of people migrating and killing game along the way. Not to mention maybe some even fighting over the same kills

So what do we do to mitigate this?

Do we teach ourselves to eat or adapt to eating 20 grasshoppers a day? Foraging for that wild scallion or tuberoot? Learning to and mentally being ready to eat a housecat, a dog? I imagine very quickly that 'roamers' will become depleted of vitamins and calories to sustain their roaming. Which is why have a BOL is so important; a place to begin trying to sustain life, grow food, raise livestock. Of course then, the topic changes to defense and resources to continue existing at said BOL such as; medical skills and knowledge.

All said and done, there are always the FEMA Camps that may or may not get established in all areas. Communities with 'good' people will try to help others; it won't all be doom and gloom I know that. Many will take in refuges and do what they can to assist in the ongoing survival of humans; but we can't rely completely on that it's up to each of us to know how and to have prepared to survive.
 

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Agree with you 100% . In my situation -I'm 78 wife is 73 ,some minor health issues ,present house/location was developed to be my BOL ,have food and stuff to last a while - being over run by bad guys is my major concern . Seeing as how hitting the road would be a death sentence to us , I have the following idea in mind . This spring a shallow well is being installed , outside , next to my house . I'm estimating 90 to 100 % of my neighbors will be with out water if the electric goes off and stays off . They will be welcome to come to my well and get their water . I think they will join together with me to protect OUR water supply from attack by BAD guys . If it does not work I won't be any more dead than I would be on the road . Failing to plan is planing to fail .
Luckyfasteddie, I stumbled on something a few weeks back about prepping a 'giveaway' cache, multiples. That in the event you are visited by 'less than friendlies' demanding assistance like food or water you can direct them to the buried cache. Sometimes a kind gesture is all it takes to turn a would be baddie into a thankful human. This idea intrigued me as I'm not the type that could turn away a mother or father with their two bugged eyed kids just looking for some water.

Just keep in mind the scene from a movie I just watched called "The Last Survivors" a movie about a young girl and her brother trying to survive in a drought affected midwest. Even though she helped wanderers, they circled back and tried to take what she had. They didn't win, but it cost them her brothers life.
 

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I am quite new to this, but I am quite experienced in Fire, EMS and LEO (25+ yrs.). I am looking to :
1. Educate my family about the seriousness of the real world.
2. Show them that we need to be ready for almost anything.
3. Learn what foods and how to keep foods for a long time.
4. What weapons are needed and how many. I know that redundancy in calibre is a good thing, however diversity in ballistics is a good thing as well.

These are a few for starters. Direction to links, advice, suggestions are all appreciated.
I know how to stop a traumatic injury for a sustained period, I have the tools to fix most important medical issues, the knowledge and skills as well.
I have taken class after class on terrorism, TCCC and active shooters. I have seen the worst things that people do stateside and am prepared there. The rest, the survival and orienting the family to the mindset, not so much.
Thanks
 

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I think you're underestimating the average prepper on this forum, and people's grit when given no other options. They'll do stuff, they just won't enjoy life while doing it. Not being happy is not the same as not surviving. At worst you'll be reduced to the life of a refugee. Oddly enough they don't all just give up and kill themselves.

That said, I think you're also overlooking a complication. That being cowardice. As someone who's charged into dangerous confrontations before without my own side having military police behind them to throw down desertion punishment should someone go backward instead of forward... you can not even trust your closest friends and family, or maybe even yourself. People as a whole are cowards and given the option of a fight or giving up something they hold precious, they'll consistently hand it over and then start searching for excuses.

In the civilian world you don't need to worry about the tactics and equipment of your 5 person group against their 5 person group. You need to worry about 4 of your people running or surrendering and only 1 of theirs once the confrontation comes.

I heard it a thousand times, "I know how important it is, but I don't want to get hurt!"
I am not sure it is true (about surrendering and such). You see, if one lives in non-survivable place, which is populated by a certain kind of people, sure. But, since it is non-survivable, it doesn't matter. Does it?
If, on the other hand, someone lives which is (potentially) survivable, the story is VERY different. Very different people, with different worldview. Extremely independent thinkers, many living under less than comfortable conditions etc.
And the most important thing (imo): if there is this WROL thingy, it would last a long time. People will see what happens to those who surrender or run away. With their own eyes. And people ARE learning computers.
 

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Never Give Up
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624 Posts
I've always considered the chain of usefulness to be Experience > Training/Knowledge > Supplies. (in regards to your first aid point) While it's better to have the supplies than nothing, they are much more useful with some kind of knowledge. I self-teach on a lot of things, but its no substitute for real experience/training. I am aware of that and I look to improve on this weakness when/if the opportunity presents itself.

As your post implies, being honest and cognizant of your situation and limitations can greatly improve your preparations and chances. I try to plan for all possibilities in order of their likelihood (bugging in is much more likely than bugging out for a variety of reasons) but recognizing my weaknesses makes my bug-out plans much better and more effective in the long run.

Also, am I the only one that thinks some of your posts, structured like this, look like they are for some kind of project or study?
 

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off-grid organic farmer
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23,836 Posts
After your bug-out, there is a huge and very difficult long learning curve. You then need shelter, power, food, etc.

To bug-out after SHTF, is adding onto how difficult your learning curve will be.

We planned, we made lists of tools and skills, we took courses, we practiced our skills, .. when we were at a place in our lives when we could make the leap. We did it.

We built a new home, we began farming, we have been marketing and bartering our farm goods. We have gotten involved with every local resource available here to help off-grid homesteading. We barter with a bunch of 'guides' [which I think that most Americans are not even aware that they exist], I serve on the board of our Cooperative Extension Office, and a couple committees that help Off-Grid homesteaders like us.

Ten years into it, and we are now finally producing food at a level enough to honestly equal feeding a family full-time / year-round.



We are living it, and we have been for ten years. We came into it with our eyes open, I have a A.S. in horticulture, we both had previously practiced most of the individual skills that we depend on today.

If it were not for my small pension, we would not have been successful.

This is with our society up and running, without any SHTF really. We used to have an investment portfolio that was doing okay, in we lost it in the crash of '08. So today we have no back-up investments or Net Worth. What you see is what we have.

If you wait until after SHTF, then load-up a vehicle with all your worldly possessions, bug-out to some remote place, and then start this. Your difficulty will be 100X what we have gone through. Your chances of malnutrition and exposure caused diseases will be great.

Today there are people who will offer to help you.

Today there are many groups that provide support and advice.

I have found some of these groups, to be very helpful.

Post-SHTF? yeah, right.
 

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Premium Member
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1,418 Posts
Things can seem overwhelming at first, Htfiremedic. There's a tendency to feel like you want to run when what you need to do is walk. Don't scare your family. Bring them along with you gently. Trust me, your wife might not have seen, done and experienced all the things you have but she is your wife. She has worried, imagined the worst, prayed for the best and kept on going - every time you walked out that door because she knows what you do for a living can be dangerous. We will have a campout soon here in SC and perhaps y'all can attend. You sure have some knowledge I'd like to have and maybe I can talk to your wife about stocking, prepping and long term storage of foods.

One place I've enjoyed visiting and learned a lot is grandpappy.org. Good common sense, recipes, stories about the depression and how people survived. You might want to visit with this site a while. Also, there's a dude on youtube called SouthernPrepper1. He lives north of Greenville, SC. He's very knowledgeable. Some of his videos get into tactical things and I don't understand some of that but others are about building a homestead, gardening, prepping. He's really good, imo. I think he's a fire/medic also and retired military. He tries to find people in the upstate to link with so y'all might hit it off and form a long time friendship. Those are 2 off the top of my head I think you might enjoy. Lots more but those 2 are really good.
 

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Premium Member
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1,418 Posts
Luckyfasteddie, I stumbled on something a few weeks back about prepping a 'giveaway' cache, multiples. That in the event you are visited by 'less than friendlies' demanding assistance like food or water you can direct them to the buried cache. Sometimes a kind gesture is all it takes to turn a would be baddie into a thankful human. This idea intrigued me as I'm not the type that could turn away a mother or father with their two bugged eyed kids just looking for some water.

Just keep in mind the scene from a movie I just watched called "The Last Survivors" a movie about a young girl and her brother trying to survive in a drought affected midwest. Even though she helped wanderers, they circled back and tried to take what she had. They didn't win, but it cost them her brothers life.
I do not think this would work - directing them to a buried cache. Just like the movie (which I've seen also) desperate people know what they can take from you means comfort for them. I too am a softy for doe-eyed children but I am now smart enough to know using those children is exactly what people would do. Do we not see that already? I've read in newspapers about so-called mothers sending their children into stores to shoplift or using them to create a disturbance and the so-called mother shoplifts. There was a situation here not so long ago where a young woman faked an accident and when someone stopped to help her, her boyfriend jumped out of the woods, robbed the man and stole his car. People are more likely I think to let their guard down with females and children. Both can kill you quick as a man can - a bullet knows no gender or age. Letting people think you are an "easy mark" or worse, seeing your supplies, imo sets you up for a really bad time. Even giving them a little something tells them - they have so much they can give things away, lets go see what they are holding back. I'm not saying I would never help anyone. Far from it. I'm saying I'd have to weigh each case individually. I'm more interested in offering a chance of becoming part of a group than feeding someone and hoping they go away. Post SHTF there will be more jobs on a homestead. Fields will have to be guarded 24-7, more food grown when you maybe can't run to the grocery to supplement your garden, that food will have to be canned or dehydrated for winter use, I have basic first aid knowledge but I am no medic, nurse or doctor, someone will have to cook, do laundry, teach children, take care of the sick - elderly - disabled. I guess I'm hoping a community will spring up and people will ban together. I certainly don't have enough land to do all that by myself but if my neighbors joined in and we worked together I think it could work. Well, until jealousy, greed or a power struggle took over.
 
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