Survivalist Forum banner
  • Are you passionate about survivalism? Would you like to write about topics that interest you and get paid for it? Read all about it here!
121 - 138 of 138 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,868 Posts
Awesome x-rays! So....wicked idea on my part. Three inch shell, slug/00 buck/rock salt or #4 or #6 shot.....layered. rock salt is a mean non-lethal load too but it results in an excruciating wound and lots of screaming. Favored by the mean variety of traditional hillbillies, the type who would tazer you in the nuts and keep pressing the re-charge until you were totally unresponsive or dead.

Birdshot is nothing to sneeze at. Most shotgun wounds have that in them because thats what it was loaded with in the closet. Most thorax shotgun wounds are fatal, mostly because there are so many leaks in so many organs.....you simply bleed out and your vitals shut down in an irreversable cascade. Ask any EMT, paramedic, ER nurse or doctor. Gone..... It just is.
 

·
Always Loaded
Joined
·
2,718 Posts
Clearly you have a bit of a problem with logic. What's more logical than proof of what something does?

Did you not see the pic I posted of a load of birdshot to that dudes back? Did you not see those x ray shots leadcounsel posted?

I'm baffled how someone can see that and still hold the position you do.
You are easily baffled, clearly. This is not complex. Birdshot can hurt you. We all know this. Nobody has stated otherwise. As I said to the motivational speaker earlier, find me a single experienced personality. One. Of the hundreds. Trainers, police instructors, shooting academy owners. Anyone from Massad Ayoob to Elmer Keith that suggests the use of birdshot. Not a one. The only people who do are self proclaimed internet experts who probably can't get through Walmart unless their Rascal scooter is fully charged. Don't spread misinformation, don't eat paint chips, and take a Midol before responding.

Yes, I enjoy kicking hornet nests.
 

·
Comic, not your lawyer!
Joined
·
15,243 Posts
Birdshot can hurt you.
Birdshot can easily kill you. The weight, speed, and penetration easily reaches and destroys organs, the brain, the spine, and large human bones. Plenty of dead people from birdshot at close range. It can also cause instant severe serious fight stopping injuries. It is also considered a lethal weapon. Let's not downplay its effectiveness.

As I said to the motivational speaker earlier, find me a single experienced personality. One. Of the hundreds. Trainers, police instructors, shooting academy owners. Anyone from Massad Ayoob to Elmer Keith that suggests the use of birdshot. Not a one.
Dunno, and barely care. Experts get it wrong all the time. What might be good for THEM may not be the same for everyone's situation. Do these experts live in crowded small city apartments with people on all 6 sides thru flimsy thin walls with children and neighbors within 10 or 20 feet? I doubt it, it's more likely they live in expansive suburban areas or ranges with longer distances and higher quality building materials including brick walls. Their audiences are also more geared toward the tactical community that carries guns, not the home defender soccer mom.

I will note however that the experts I've listened to always recite the rules of gun safety. "Deep penetration" is weirdly not one of those rules. Those rules do however contain "be aware of what is beyond your target." So it seems that BY DEFAULT the safety aspect is more important than the "death ray caliber" aspect.

Also, I'll note that the professionals have constantly been on a quest to make "frangible" ammunition which very closely mimics what birdshot does. Nobody questions the use of "frangible" ammunition, so why the criticism of birdshot?

The only people who do are self proclaimed internet experts who probably can't get through Walmart unless their Rascal scooter is fully charged. Don't spread misinformation, don't eat paint chips
I'll go back to eating my paint chips I suppose. I guess my credentials are inadequate on commenting on this topic. You win the argument thru appeals to authority and casting insults.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,868 Posts
BIF, I was going to load some 12G 3" shells Friday with a buddy. Doing the slug/00/#6 (cause I already got it all on hand). Any tips? I was going to run it through my tricked out mossy 88. I know, its like a ghetto tricked out pinto but it runs.

My buddy suggested #4 but I have a truckload of gifts to get already, and santa already asked for 9mm practice or 00 . Mrs Claus is long up to speed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,448 Posts
At close range, a blank will kill. Don't try to tell me bird shot will not.

Is it my go to self defense shell? No, but honestly neither is a shotgun my go to self defense weapon.

This reminds me of the constant ".22LR can't kill a person" arguments.
 

·
Always Loaded
Joined
·
2,718 Posts
At close range, a blank will kill. Don't try to tell me bird shot will not.

Is it my go to self defense shell? No, but honestly neither is a shotgun my go to self defense weapon.

This reminds me of the constant ".22LR can't kill a person" arguments.
Where have you heard that argument? You must be hanging in the shallow part of the internet. I truly want to understand how you dingleberries interpret "Bird shot is not good for self defense" to "bird shot is harmless and can't kill you".

Frangible ammo behaves like bird shot. You are a retard, no it does not. A projectile that breaks apart on impact is not the same as a projectile that breaks apart 2 feet from the muzzle. Not many people using frangible ammo either, probably because the ballistic properties suck.
 

·
Always Loaded
Joined
·
2,718 Posts
BIF, I was going to load some 12G 3" shells Friday with a buddy. Doing the slug/00/#6 (cause I already got it all on hand). Any tips? I was going to run it through my tricked out mossy 88. I know, its like a ghetto tricked out pinto but it runs.

My buddy suggested #4 but I have a truckload of gifts to get already, and santa already asked for 9mm practice or 00 . Mrs Claus is long up to speed.
Are you saying you are loading all three in the same hull? That should be interesting. I have no personal experience doing that. I'm thinking of working up some tri-ball loads soon. I tested some 3" 15 pellet 00 buck loads last weekend. They were gnarly! Used the old school style of a plain gas seal under a hard wax card, no shot cup. Pretty wide spread, obviously, but they would be devastating at 20 yards or less. Also perfecting those 525 gr Lyman slugs. Shotshell loading is a completely different animal from metallic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,868 Posts
Still. That sounds like a potentially wicked beast of a load. The guy I'm doing this with Saturday uses all manner of materials as projectiles in shotshells. Pebbles, broken up safety glass, various sized marbles and ball bearings, wheel bearings, chunks of cable....copper, steel, aluminum, etc. For a while there he was experimenting with nails of different mskes and wieghts too. Mundanely he started out as a tool and dye guy so he always had the income and access to materials. Saturday....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,492 Posts
Still. That sounds like as potenti adds lly wicked beast of a load. The guy I'm doing this with uses all mannrr of materials as projectiles in shotshells. Pebbles, broken up safety glass, various sized marbles and ball bearings, wheel bearings, chunks of cable....copper, steel, aluminum, etc. Fot as whil er there her was experiments with nails of different mskes sd nd wieghts too. Mundanely hr started as s as tool and dye guy so h eff alway ssd had thr income and access to materials. Saturday....
Dude you having a few pre Thanksgiving drinks or what?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,448 Posts
Where have you heard that argument? You must be hanging in the shallow part of the internet. I truly want to understand how you dingleberries interpret "Bird shot is not good for self defense" to "bird shot is harmless and can't kill you".

Frangible ammo behaves like bird shot. You are a retard, no it does not. A projectile that breaks apart on impact is not the same as a projectile that breaks apart 2 feet from the muzzle. Not many people using frangible ammo either, probably because the ballistic properties suck.
Dude!

So hostile.

Where have I heard the argument? Other than this thread right here? People are debating the LETHALITY of it, not "can it hurt you" and I said it absolutely can be lethal.

I never said a damn thing about frangible ammo. I know it does not behave like shot. BTW, I would never use frangible rounds for self defense because I have no experience with them.

No need to be calling people retards and such. Calm down. There is a difference between debate and argument.

Don't take it personally.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,454 Posts
A question about the headshot xrays,because I don't know since it is just a pic in 2-D.
Is it possible that those pellets are just under the skin,against the skull?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,868 Posts
I converted my Mossberg 500 with a 10 round mag and a short barrel. Ten rounds of whatever I have loaded will do the trick. Cleanup will be a bitch....

I sae a seried on a professional compsny in NO who clean up crime scenes and suicides. They used diluted ammonia in those pump chrmical sprayers from Tractor Supply..... just trying to help.
 
121 - 138 of 138 Posts
Top