Survivalist Forum banner
  • Are you passionate about survivalism? Would you like to write about topics that interest you and get paid for it? Read all about it here!
1 - 20 of 138 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
270 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Over the last year or so, I've been tweaking my home defense shotgun to determine the best set up for my situation. Along with the configuration of the gun, I've also considered various ammo types and evaluated them based on spread, velocity, and knockdown power. Recently, I picked up some of Winchester's PDX1 Defender rounds (three 00 buckshot BB's and a 1 oz slug) and ran it head to head against the tried and true 00 buckshot round. Check out my video to see the range test I conducted:


Long story short, a compelling case can be made for the PDX1 Defender shells instead of buckshot. The pattern is consistent (and a hair wider than standard buckshot), the knockdown power is significant, and the cost is reasonable ($2.50 per round). Even if a bad guy only get's hit with one of the four projectiles, it's likely going to cause the perp to reconsider advancing their attack on you, as one 00 BB is equivalent to a 9mm round. A con for this round is that the three buckshot BB's are plated, thus, there's a slight risk of over penetration due to the lack of round deformation. I don't think that's a deal breaker for me, but to some it might be.

Just wanted to post a review about this semi-new type of shotgun load for those who haven't heard about it. It's getting fairly popular and has been out for about a decade.

Thought's on it's viability for home defense?
 
Joined
·
1,212 Posts
I have yet to test it in 12 gauge. I did some testing in 410 and was unimpressed, but with a 12 gauge there’s a lot more wiggle room.

For tactical applications like LE, Military, or home defense, I like the update to the old fashioned “Buck and Ball” concept. For me at this point in time, I am sticking to #4 Buckshot in my shotgun, specifically because I live in an apartment and collateral damage is a major concern. However, once I get my “house on the hill” I will certainly revisit the PDX1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,294 Posts
Over the last year or so, I've been tweaking my home defense shotgun to determine the best set up for my situation. Along with the configuration of the gun, I've also considered various ammo types and evaluated them based on spread, velocity, and knockdown power. Recently, I picked up some of Winchester's PDX1 Defender rounds (three 00 buckshot BB's and a 1 oz slug) and ran it head to head against the tried and true 00 buckshot round. Check out my video to see the range test I conducted:


Long story short, a compelling case can be made for the PDX1 Defender shells instead of buckshot. The pattern is consistent (and a hair wider than standard buckshot), the knockdown power is significant, and the cost is reasonable ($2.50 per round). Even if a bad guy only get's hit with one of the four projectiles, it's likely going to cause the perp to reconsider advancing their attack on you, as one 00 BB is equivalent to a 9mm round. A con for this round is that the three buckshot BB's are plated, thus, there's a slight risk of over penetration due to the lack of round deformation. I don't think that's a deal breaker for me, but to some it might be.

Just wanted to post a review about this semi-new type of shotgun load for those who haven't heard about it. It's getting fairly popular and has been out for about a decade.

Thought's on it's viability for home defense?
Plated buckshot reduces flyers. I’m not sure I’d be so concerned about any resulting increased penetration. There was a nice article years ago in a military magazine ( as in published by or for DOD, no SOF) comparing plated and unplated buckshot, with and without buffering. Definitely showed a serious edge for buffered, plated shot.

I wouldn’t consider a 00 buck to be equivalent to a 9mm. Weight is less than half that of a standard 9mm, crossectional area is about 20% less, but muzzle velocity is much higher in standard (non tactical) loading.

if the slug has a dependable POI ( gonna have to watch the video) it sounds pretty attractive. Cost ( if those were prices from 2 years ago) isn’t that much worse than federal premium ($1/rd)

BTW, years ago,fresh out of college, I bought a scattergun technologies shotgun at the factory in Nashville . My first gun with ghost rings. I bought a sleeve of slugs at Walmart. So I stuck a 2x4 piece of plywood on a 10” pine tree and proceeded to sight the ghost rings in. On about round 20 I heard a creak, and the pine tree came crashing down. Really got some respect for full power slugs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,005 Posts
buy a box of PDX and load up your 12g everyday home defense shotgun - sure - Why not?

but - are you seriously considering any kind of stockpiling? >>> this is a prepper conversation forum and 00Buck will do nicely in a SHTF situation where quantity overwhelming overrides some little extra edge ....

if you have a 20g like most of us do - probably recommend a few boxes of the PDX loads - best you can do is #3Buck without getting into magnums - have it ready for some secondary defense duty if necessary ....

using a .410 for defense? - get a couple boxes of cheap slugs and call it a day ...
 

·
Happy to be here!
Joined
·
5,113 Posts
Great video, thanks. I feel like there's a lot of fads that come and go to sell guns and ammo, and this is one of them. Another trend is trying to reduce the size of buckshot patterns in defensive loads. I can understand a need for that in someone else's situation, but I want the exact opposite from my HD shotgun. I'd love a garbage can lid sized pattern at 30 feet if I could get it. If I want a super tight pattern I'll shoot a slug.
 

·
Born 120 years too late.
Joined
·
6,396 Posts
IF YOU are contemplating it as a home defense round.. why do you need either of them?
Inside a standard sized room in a standard sized house, ANY 12 ga round will perform admirably.
At 10-12 feet a 7 1/2 won't open any more than a 00 buck load and you will not have the potential issue of over-penetrating the target. AND, I can guarantee they will put someone down. I responded to a potential robber who was dusted by a Browning sweet 16 with a skeet load at 20 feet in a restaurant. It was just one large rathole... with no exit. So any 12 ga load will work fine.

IF you are using it inside the house, a slug??? Really??? do you want to kill someone three rooms away after it smokes through the BG? OR, if you live in a tight neighborhood where the houses are close together, you could exit your house and do damage next door. It has happened.

Just throw'n it out there.
 

·
Comic, not your lawyer!
Joined
·
15,243 Posts
Both are devastating, and will ruin the recipients' day. My general rule for a scatter gun is if you worry about over penetration, drop the size of pellets to #4. Maybe even birdshot to fully mitigate overpenetration in special situations (apartment dwellers, kids in adjacent rooms, etc.). (Please spare me the arguments, I've studied them all.) If you have less overpenetration concerns or live/travel in rural areas PDX1 and slugs are welcomed ideas. The benefit of the foster slug is, of course, accuracy at longer ranges where buck is not effective. The PDX1 bridges that gap well, giving benefits of range and patterned spreads to assure hits.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,400 Posts
Thanks for a nicely done and informative video!

I like the PDX 1 and have a good supply of them. I bought them some years ago when they were much cheaper.

Not for any scientific reasons and probably just because I'm old fashioned, I load 00 buck in the tube and chamber of my HD shotgun and keep three slugs and three PDX 1's in the sidesaddle. Always near the gun is a 25 rd belt/bandolier with a mix of PDX 1's, slugs and buck in case I get invaded by a horde of zombies and I feel I might need a few more rounds


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

·
Basket of deplorables
Joined
·
3,319 Posts
This is nothing more than what our Colonials used against the British in our war of Independence. It was a buck and ball load. They loaded a patched round ball into a smoothbore and dropped in three .00 or similar buck shot pellets. The load was then topped off with some form of wadding that varied from cotton to wasp nest material. Very effective in those times and the British protested vehemently as they thought it was against their rules of warfare.

The significance to all this is not much has changed. Were still using .12 ga slugs that was very common several hundred years ago. Were still adding the extra surprise of a few buckshot. A lot of folks think this is some new genius idea. It is, just from several hundred years ago from some very bright Patriots. They figured out how to level the playing field against what was at the time the most powerful Army and Navy on the planet and sent them packing licking their wounds.
 
Joined
·
16,746 Posts
The ammunition in the OP shows buffered shot in the PDX1 vs. a standard shell, that makes a lot of difference.

I'd be a bit concerned with overpenetration with that PDX1, especially with home defense. Try utilizing the Federal Personal Defense ammunition, with the flitecontrol wad. The videos below show the difference in the grouping.


 
Joined
·
16,746 Posts
The pdx load seems to be more against large animal threat than human. I could see it could work well against bear.
For the slug part, possibly, but certainly not for the 3 #00 buckshot.

For my money, I'd rather go with the Brenneke Black Magic Magnum that I saw at the SHOT show a few years back. Though because it is a sabbot round, you will need a rifled bore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Goodwrench708

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
From this video, PDX-1 slug and pellets penetrate around 19.5" at 10'


If the slugs are consistent in going where you aim them out to 100y, then I'm very fond of this modern take on "buck and ball"
 

·
Always Loaded
Joined
·
2,718 Posts
As long as you test a load in YOUR shotgun, and it patterns reliably, go with it. That is, #4 buck or larger. Nobody should be fielding bird shot in a defensive firearm. I hate that I even have to say that, with the wealth of knowledge open to everyone at their finger tips. What happens when it's through auto glass? What if they are partially behind a door? What if they are beyond 20 yards? Bird shot is a crappy choice for a shotgun. Period.

Loads like the PDX1 are a over complicated answer to a simple problem. Other than costing 4X a conventional load, what can it do better than a 00 load or a slug? Nobody walks away from a 1 oz slug. Will it make them more deader? It's a fancy round designed to wow people into spending money.
 

·
Comic, not your lawyer!
Joined
·
15,243 Posts
As long as you test a load in YOUR shotgun, and it patterns reliably, go with it. That is, #4 buck or larger. Nobody should be fielding bird shot in a defensive firearm. I hate that I even have to say that, with the wealth of knowledge open to everyone at their finger tips. What happens when it's through auto glass? What if they are partially behind a door? What if they are beyond 20 yards? Bird shot is a crappy choice for a shotgun. Period.

Loads like the PDX1 are a over complicated answer to a simple problem. Other than costing 4X a conventional load, what can it do better than a 00 load or a slug? Nobody walks away from a 1 oz slug. Will it make them more deader? It's a fancy round designed to wow people into spending money.
False.
Do you have a lot of auto glass in your home? Doubtful.

Do you have anything close to a 20 yard lawful defensive shot inside your home? That's 60 feet. I doubt it. Further, the spread on any buckshot at 60 feet is probably pushing its safe usefulness.

Birdshot is lethal behind a common household hollow core door. So if your perp jumps behind a household door, it won't stop birdshot. But your kids 3 walls over will thank you.

And, the POINT of birdshot in a HOME DEFENSE situation is so you don't murder an innocent person 5 walls away and go to prison.

Nobody walks away from a 1 oz slug.
This might include the old neighbor lady 4 houses away peacefully watching her late night television, that your slug hit after going thru 9 walls...

I shouldn't have to spell that out, knowledge open to everyone at their finger tips.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,448 Posts
Personally, I shoot 00 to get some spread at range. If you want a tight group hard hitter, just use a standard slug.

On my PD shotties I have two slugs and the rest 00 buck.

The slugs are for range, if I have to shoot through a door, stop a car advancing on my place, etc. The shot is for pretty much anything else in shotty range.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hanzy4200
1 - 20 of 138 Posts
Top