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Is Jesus the I Am?

Before Abraham existed Ego Eimi. I AM. Look at the LXX in exodus. Tell them Ego Eimi sent you. Tel them I am sent you. Who was the I Am? You are a baptist... you cannot be a baptist and deny the divinity of Jesus. My entire fathers side of the family was Baptist deacons and preachers. If you deny the divinity of Jesus you are not a christian but a pagan. It is that simple even in protestant terms.
I do not deny the divinity of Jesus. I just deny Mary is the mother of God. God has no mother. God created mothers.

Name calling aka ad hominem is the first sign one has lost an argument.

Biblically you cannot make a logical argument that Mary is the mother of God. To do so you must first prove Mary preexisted God. Nothing and no one preexisted God.

You have faith that Mary is the mother of a god but not they God. It is not for me to judge if that faith is enough to save you. I like to believe it is because I trust God knows what is in your heart.

None-the-less those that lead people in such false prophesy are not being faithful to God's Word.
No one has argued she is pre existent to God. She is the mother of God incarnate ie Jesus. Therefore the mother of God. Not diety. Not eternal mother. Not mother of Pre incarnaye Godm You have been arguing God was in Jesus, but not God himself. You have moved the goal posts.
 

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No one has argued she is pre existent to God. She is the mother of God incarnate ie Jesus. Therefore the mother of God. Not diety. Not eternal mother. Not mother of Pre incarnaye Godm You have been arguing God was in Jesus, but not God himself. You have moved the goal posts.
God has no mother. She was Jesus the human being's mother not the mother of God. Mary was just a woman. A woman chosen by God for a purpose. Many are chosen for a purpose. Many believe we are all chosen for a purpose but often we choose not to follow God's purpose.

IMO that purpose may not be known until events present themselves. Most things are beyond human understanding as to why.

Mary was the mother of Jesus. Mary was not the mother of God.
 

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No one has argued she is pre existent to God. She is the mother of God incarnate ie Jesus. Therefore the mother of God. Not diety. Not eternal mother. Not mother of Pre incarnaye Godm You have been arguing God was in Jesus, but not God himself. You have moved the goal posts.
God has no mother. She was Jesus the human being's mother not the mother of God. Mary was just a woman. A woman chosen by God for a purpose. Many are chosen for a purpose. Many believe we are all chosen for a purpose but often we choose not to follow God's purpose.

IMO that purpose may not be known until events present themselves. Most things are beyond human understanding as to why.

Mary was the mother of Jesus. Mary was not the mother of God.
Was Jesus Born God on earth or was he only man
 

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Was Jesus Born God on earth or was he only man
Mary gave birth to Jesus the man. Jesus became God incarnate the same way the God the Holy Spirit is within each of us. We are not God. Our mothers are not mothers of God. Mother cannot give birth to God. God made Mary just like He made all mothers.

God knew each of us on the womb.

Mary was not perfect. Christ had to be human to be crucified. Mary gave birth the the human vessel that God put Himself in as His Son. She gave birth to Jesus the human. God is, always has been and always will be. Mary was a human mother that is all except especially chosen by God the Father to bring into this world Jesus the man part of God the Son. Mary is the mother of the "human" part of Jesus Son of God. Mary is not the mother of God. No one can or could be.
 

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Was Jesus Born God on earth or was he only man
Mary gave birth to Jesus the man. Jesus became God incarnate the same way the God the Holy Spirit is within each of us. We are not God. Our mothers are not mothers of God. Mother cannot give birth to God. God made Mary just like He made all mothers.

God knew each of us on the womb.

Mary was not perfect. Christ had to be human to be crucified. Mary gave birth the the human vessel that God put Himself in as His Son. She gave birth to Jesus the human. God is, always has been and always will be. Mary was a human mother that is all except especially chosen by God the Father to bring into this world Jesus the man part of God the Son. Mary is the mother of the "human" part of Jesus Son of God. Mary is not the mother of God. No one can or could be.
So you believe you are diety?
 

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No one has argued she is pre existent to God. She is the mother of God incarnate ie Jesus. Therefore the mother of God. Not diety. Not eternal mother. Not mother of Pre incarnaye Godm You have been arguing God was in Jesus, but not God himself. You have moved the goal posts.
Was Mary a sinner?
 

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No one has argued she is pre existent to God. She is the mother of God incarnate ie Jesus. Therefore the mother of God. Not diety. Not eternal mother. Not mother of Pre incarnaye Godm You have been arguing God was in Jesus, but not God himself. You have moved the goal posts.
Was Mary a sinner?
Yes. Like all other human beings
 

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So God would allow His “Son”, His own human manifestation, to be born of a sinful human as we all are? If we believe, as we most do, that Jesus is Divine, literally the incarnate presence on Earth of God, do you really believe that God would allow His “Son” to be born to a sinner? To someone who even carried the stain of Original Sin? We already know that Jesus Himself never sinned. Yet being born to a human (and don’t play semantics that Original Sin is passed on only through the father or mother. It is something we inherit simply because of being human), is the way we receive the stain. God would simply not allow it. So either He lifted the Original Sin from His Son upon either conception or birth, which therefore means that Jesus was stained at least for an infinitesimal time until cleansed, or is it more likely that God just made sure that Mary simply could not transmit Original Sin because she herself was cleansed of it before birth. So if you were God, outside of time, and could do absolutely anything you wanted, which way would you go? Zero advantage to incarnating Jesus through a sinner, either original or subsequent. That would have no effect upon His time and message on Earth. Much like the idiocy of considering that Jesus actually had brothers or sisters. Why would God allow such a thing to happen? Why would He possibly give fodder to all the naysayers (read that Satan inspired) to question the sole Divinity of Jesus? The same reason He did not give special consideration to Mary while she was alive, because future generations could misconstrue her as being Divine and therefore taking focus from Jesus.

But at the natural end of her life, years after the Resurrection, the assumption of Mary bodily into Heaven is her reward for her part in the Salvation of humanity. The concept that Jesus would ignore the woman chosen to give Him entry to this world, nurture Him for nigh on thirty years, start Him on His ministry at the wedding at Cana, and stay with Him through every bit of His passion up to being at the Cross at His Death and burial, His Resurrection, and being in the Upper Room at the descent of the Holy Spirit... just to discard her as a human incubator and insignificant in the scheme of things is simply unimaginable.

Whether you like it or not, Mary has been sent to us a number of times throughout history as an intermediary...being the one wholly human who is also part of Jesus and therefore of God. From Tepeyac to Lourdes to Fátima and many others, she has been our advocate, imploring humanity to repent and pray to her Son. At Lourdes, she identified herself as The Immaculate Conception.

Ignore her or dismiss her at your peril. Read of her visits. Understand that Jesus would exalt His earthly Mother no differently than any of us would exalt our Mother who gave her life to our benefit.
 

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So God would allow His “Son”, His own human manifestation, to be born of a sinful human as we all are? If we believe, as we most do, that Jesus is Divine, literally the incarnate presence on Earth of God, do you really believe that God would allow His “Son” to be born to a sinner? To someone who even carried the stain of Original Sin? We already know that Jesus Himself never sinned. Yet being born to a human (and don’t play semantics that Original Sin is passed on only through the father or mother. It is something we inherit simply because of being human), is the way we receive the stain. God would simply not allow it. So either He lifted the Original Sin from His Son upon either conception or birth, which therefore means that Jesus was stained at least for an infinitesimal time until cleansed, or is it more likely that God just made sure that Mary simply could not transmit Original Sin because she herself was cleansed of it before birth. So if you were God, outside of time, and could do absolutely anything you wanted, which way would you go? Zero advantage to incarnating Jesus through a sinner, either original or subsequent. That would have no effect upon His time and message on Earth. Much like the idiocy of considering that Jesus actually had brothers or sisters. Why would God allow such a thing to happen? Why would He possibly give fodder to all the naysayers (read that Satan inspired) to question the sole Divinity of Jesus? The same reason He did not give special consideration to Mary while she was alive, because future generations could misconstrue her as being Divine and therefore taking focus from Jesus.

But at the natural end of her life, years after the Resurrection, the assumption of Mary bodily into Heaven is her reward for her part in the Salvation of humanity. The concept that Jesus would ignore the woman chosen to give Him entry to this world, nurture Him for nigh on thirty years, start Him on His ministry at the wedding at Cana, and stay with Him through every bit of His passion up to being at the Cross at His Death and burial, His Resurrection, and being in the Upper Room at the descent of the Holy Spirit... just to discard her as a human incubator and insignificant in the scheme of things is simply unimaginable.

Whether you like it or not, Mary has been sent to us a number of times throughout history as an intermediary...being the one wholly human who is also part of Jesus and therefore of God. From Tepeyac to Lourdes to Fátima and many others, she has been our advocate, imploring humanity to repent and pray to her Son. At Lourdes, she identified herself as The Immaculate Conception.

Ignore her or dismiss her at your peril. Read of her visits. Understand that Jesus would exalt His earthly Mother no differently than any of us would exalt our Mother who gave her life to our benefit.
Original sin is not the teaching of the the holy scripture, nor of the church ante nicean fathers. It is not the Original, or orthodox teaching of the church. Mary was not born sinful and neither are we. Augustine gave Rome that misunderstanding and Rome gave protestants that same misunderstanding through Calvin. God sent his Son, born of a virgin, born under the law. A woman who is to be called blessed for all Generations. She not need be sinlessly perfect for she is not the sinless sacrifice. God has only ever used imperfect humans because all humans are imperfect . The incarnate one. Who knew no sin, only he alone was the only human to grow without knowing sin for he was also Divine. Mary was more faithful than the apostles, she was specifically chosen for this great blessing above all other women, she stood by Jesus from life to death to ressurection and now resides with him in eternity while never wavering in her support for him.

As for Mary being a mediator between us and God. Consider the words of Saint Paul

1 Timothy 2:5–6 (ESV): For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6*who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Mankind has one Mediator, not two, not 3, not thousands. 1 the Lord Jesus.
 

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So Mary was in need of a savior just like the rest of us?
 

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So Mary was in need of a savior just like the rest of us?
"The Eastern Orthodox Churches teach that while Mary "inherited the same fallen nature, prone to sin" as with other humans, "she did not consent to sin through her free will."[1] Due to being conceived in ancestral sin, Mary still needed "to be delivered by our Savior, her Son" according to Eastern Orthodox teaching."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinlessness_of_Mary

The Orthodox do not accept that humans share the guilt of the first sin but, rather, only the consequences.
 

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Mary carried the sins of four generations. Her sins, her parents, her 4 grandparents, and her 8 great-grandparents. That is the sins of 15 people. Even if you assume the sins of her 8 great-grandparents drop off for Jesus, he would still become burdened at birth by the sins of 7 people.

Now I believe our Savior was without sin. I believe God is without sin.

The rest of you can believe as you wish. I do not believe Mary was the “mother of God.”

Yes, I believe God knows each of us in the womb. How and when Jesus became God incarnate, I cannot say. I know scripture says many things that are beyond my understanding.

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit as one God-head I believe. I do not believe Mary was the mother of God.

What the rest of you believe is between you and God.
 

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In 1858, when Bernadette Soubirous, the 14 year old daughter of a Miller in Lourdes, France, asked the Lady who had appeared to her at Massabielle what her name was, the Lady replied “I am the Immaculate Conception”.

A 14 year old peasant girl who had no idea what those words meant.

This is why Jesus held children in such high esteem and told us in no uncertain terms that you must be like a child to enter the Kingdom.

What any one of us believe is definitely between us and God.

I’m personally happy that what I believe is reinforced over and over through the continuing interaction of Jesus and His Mother with humanity to this day.

Let them who have eyes, see. Let them who have ears, hear.

God forces nothing on us.
 

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Mary carried the sins of four generations. Her sins, her parents, her 4 grandparents, and her 8 great-grandparents. That is the sins of 15 people. Even if you assume the sins of her 8 great-grandparents drop off for Jesus, he would still become burdened at birth by the sins of 7 people.

Now I believe our Savior was without sin. I believe God is without sin.

The rest of you can believe as you wish. I do not believe Mary was the “mother of God.”

Yes, I believe God knows each of us in the womb. How and when Jesus became God incarnate, I cannot say. I know scripture says many things that are beyond my understanding.

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit as one God-head I believe. I do not believe Mary was the mother of God.

What the rest of you believe is between you and God.
You believe Mary was guilty of others people's sins? What kinda nonsense is that.
 

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Mary carried the sins of four generations. Her sins, her parents, her 4 grandparents, and her 8 great-grandparents. That is the sins of 15 people. Even if you assume the sins of her 8 great-grandparents drop off for Jesus, he would still become burdened at birth by the sins of 7 people.

Now I believe our Savior was without sin. I believe God is without sin.

The rest of you can believe as you wish. I do not believe Mary was the “mother of God.”

Yes, I believe God knows each of us in the womb. How and when Jesus became God incarnate, I cannot say. I know scripture says many things that are beyond my understanding.

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit as one God-head I believe. I do not believe Mary was the mother of God.

What the rest of you believe is between you and God.
It does not matter what you believe but what the Church believes.
 

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It does not matter what you believe but what the Church believes.
That is absolutely wrong. God does not go through other men. It is God's word that speaks to each man as well as the Holy Spirit that speaks to each of us if we try to listen.

I will agree your statement is the fundamental difference between our faiths. The two are not reconcilable.
 

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You believe Mary was guilty of others people's sins? What kinda nonsense is that.
Exodus 34:7 "maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.”

Christ was sin free and took on no punishment until the Cross. Jesus was without sin. He was sinless. He was holy and perfect.

The above could not be true if he was burdened by the sins of Mary and her ancestry.

Regardless Mary was the mother of Jesus the Christ child. Mary was not the mother of God.

I am sorry for those of you that are dependent on the church, any church, for the meaning of God's Word. That should not be interpreted to mean that we (I) cannot and do not learn from church worship and the Biblical knowledge of others. It means it is up to me to let the Holy Spirit speak to me through the combinations of church worship, knowledge of others and my study of God's Word.

Obviously we differ. Maybe that is God's will too.
 
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