[VINCENT]

"s.w.i.m." hurt his back in accident. swim went to dr. and was promptly put on lortab . soon swim built up tolerance and needed something stronger .within 2 yrs swim has been thru percocets,oxycontin, oxycodone, fentanil, dilaudid, opana,xanax , and a few others."swim" finally settled on oxycontin, oxycodone and xanax."swim" and cant seem to live without them. takes them just to feel normal. "swims" marriage has suffered as well as his relationship with children. swim thinks of quitting often but............
Doesnt this story sound soo familiar? oh and dont that "swim" sht just irritate the **** outta you? does me. i just added it for kicks ...."swim" is a good friend of mine:

we all know "swim"

 

[VINCENT]

Vincent, thanks for starting this thread.

I have my XI chip on my keys (that was the last time I was at a meeting, long story) that was in 2005. But I love the reaction of certain people when they pick up my keys, that little glimmer of recognition from someone who is active in a program or has been through it and are currently active in the shadow world. I have had people start a little conversation and of course the "I tried that, didn't work!". Both comments help me tremendously because I need to be reminded of the pain and hardship as well as the fellowship.

I don't live my life with my chip in my hand now but there was a time that I would rub that thing like a gene lamp, it is good to have the reminder.

welcome, i keep my II chip on my keys, and my X chip in my pocket. i really need to get a newer chip, but i havent bothered. dont know why? that look you talk about, that little spark of recognition is something to behold and cherish. not only does it serve others by giving them hope, or remeberence, but, like you said, it helps remind us to.

 

[reverendg]

AA told me i had to admit being powerless and give in to a higher power. i said if i quit cigs 19 yrs ago imust have some willpower why must i believe in a god?? i was yold i had no willpower i just needed to see their way....their way is also saying a person sober and never touched a drop in 20+years is still an alcoholic..just a sober one i disagree vehemently i quit tobacco 19 yeras ago and im still a nicotine addict???

disease---cancer that is a disease not a choice even if lung cancer via smoking is the type of cancer..drugs/alcohol/tobacco all choices use or not use...
you dont get yelled at for havin cancer!



dan you junkie! get a life! quit already!! ok
dan you cancer patient! get a life! quit havin cancer! ummm..no

different choices....diseases.....

learned 2 good things there tho...if ya wanna quit...3 things must change...people,places,things.....that are triggers for using
and quittin is easy...stayin sober....different thing alltogether

I wince at the disease idea myself...but it does fit..look at the definition: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms : sickness, malady.

I used to "quit" drinking every night once it was time to fall asleep. But I would start up again every day. I have seen meetings that gave out 24 hour tokens, but never 5 or 5 hour ones.
The effect of chemical dependency on the human brain has been documented, so there is a physical manifestation. Unfortunately, one cannot just cut out or replace a person's brain like they do with cancerous tissue. Just as quitting smoking will not stop you from having lung cancer, stopping using will not reverse the effects on your brain from using.

I am glad you gave up cigarettes 19 years ago. Don't do this...but what do you think would happen if you had a smoke every once in a while? I know myself...and after 6 years smoke free, no problem being around smokers,etc, I started to puff a smoke in high stress situations now and then. Took a while, but I ended up back at 2 packs a day.I quit drinking once for a year just to prove i could...like the big book says to do. Actually went 18 months or so, then only had one or two after work for about 6 months. But that was all "controlling" my desires, and within a year I had let my control go bye-bye and was a drunk again. Yep...I DO have willpower. That willpower can be helpful if faced with a stressful situation or such, but does nothing for long term sobriety.

Please, since you do know so much more than all the other's looking for solutions to addiction, share the answer with the world. As for me, I will stick with the single proven program of recovery. The one that has had such good results that instead of being used for the single intended problem, it has been co-opted into literally hundreds of 12 step programs for treatment of addictions.

 

[VINCENT]

well dan, looks like you have the same response from more then just me. reverendg nailed it on the head when he spoke about the casuall smoking, and drinking. this is exactly what happend sto a tru addict. we have just one then we end up full blown agian. addicts cant have just one and be ok. sometimes a person ends up in the rooms(A/A,N/A,etc) for the wrong reasons. they may thing they are anaddict, but what they really are is normal, and just having a short term problem.

 

[speedofl33t]

"s.w.i.m." hurt his back in accident. swim went to dr. and was promptly put on lortab . soon swim built up tolerance and needed something stronger .within 2 yrs swim has been thru percocets,oxycontin, oxycodone, fentanil, dilaudid, opana,xanax , and a few others."swim" finally settled on oxycontin, oxycodone and xanax."swim" and cant seem to live without them. takes them just to feel normal. "swims" marriage has suffered as well as his relationship with children. swim thinks of quitting often but............
Doesnt this story sound soo familiar? oh and dont that "swim" sht just irritate the **** outta you? does me. i just added it for kicks ...."swim" is a good friend of mine:

That could almost be a friend of mine, one of my "oldest" online friends. Drugs made him passive and not care, stupid and hard talking to. I will not blame his heart attack on drugs, but him being passive, I think hurried up the heart attack happening. Now, after talking seeing him every day, he is gone since almost 2 weeks. Kinda wondered what happened.

 

[danthesurvior]

dan, because i have never relapsed, does that mean i didnt have a problem? was i not an addict? no. it means that i was different then some, and exactly like others. we all handle our addiction differently. AA, and NA all will preach "higher power" but no one will force religion down your throat, especially here. you do need to admit being powerless over your addiction, thats the nature of an addiction, otherwise what you are dealing with is only a habbit. while you may consider yourself no longer an addict, the majority of us do, then, now, and for life. addiction is not something that you can wash off. its with you forever, you are or your not an addict. while i can appreciate that its been different for you , perhaps you should go back and look at what you have been through, and rethink what your saying to other. while you dont agree with what the program has said to you, it is exactly what the many of us need to hear, and exactly how we need to hear it. i'm glad to hear you quit smoking 19 years ago, and that a big thing, but i didnt see where you actually said anything about you having an alcohol addiction. why were you at AA? perhaps that is why you didnt like the way the program worked for you. perhaps the right program would have been better? wither way. please come back if you wish to constructively share with us addicts rather then tell us how we are doing it wrong.:xeye:

never said you were doing anything wrong just stated my opinion as did you..so wtf is wrong with that??yes i was an alcoholic 4 yrs 9 mos sober still an addict but aa didnt do it for me ..i am powerless over addiction to rx meds but why does god have to be the answer???

 

[jfountain2]

Great thread! I made it a sticky so it will always be visible.

 

[VINCENT]

never said you were doing anything wrong just stated my opinion as did you..so wtf is wrong with that??yes i was an alcoholic 4 yrs 9 mos sober still an addict but aa didnt do it for me ..i am powerless over addiction to rx meds but why does god have to be the answer???

i just want to be sure your not being down on people who do chose to follow the program, and it doesnt do any of us anygood to nay-say it.

let me break down some of what your saying-

"yes i was an alcoholic 4 yrs 9 mos sober"

was is past tense, and while you may like to believe your no longer an addict, the fact is that if you were an addict, you ARE STILL an addict. we never stop being an addict. you even say so. i'm not attacking you, i'm only trying to understand where your coming from because the next thing you say is

"still an addict but aa didnt do it for me "

so you see my confusion in that i am unsure weather you consider yourself an addict or not. this is part of step 1. we admit we have a problem and recognize we are an addict. you dont stop being an addict.

as far as A/A not doing it for you,well that i can understand. many a person is rubbed wrong by something in the group. weather it be the people, the principles, what have you. i for one can completely agree with you about the "GOD" thing. this is why i stated in the begining of this thread that i would like to leave "GOD" out of this thread. a little bit of non denominational religion is ok, but hard core religion just causes arguments. that is not why we are here. i have always had issues with organized religion and this was my toughest issue to over come when i entered the program to get sober. i learned quickly why they actually say you dont need to find god, just come to terms that there is a "HIGHER POWER". your HP may be an alien, it may be a rock, it may be mother nature, it doesnt matter. its YOUR higher power. "GOD"does not have to be the answer, but when you are able to realize that spiritually your not alone, it makes things easier. spiritually is not the same as religiously so remember you HP is in you and that is where you will find your strength.

if your still suffering from an addiction of pills then perhaps you should try visiting an N/A group, or continue to visit here, but with a slightly more open mind. i have found that many an A/A group does not mix well with other addicts. but N/A is more welcoming of all because we recognize that addicts are addicts no matter what your poison may be.


thank you for sharing with us.

vincent

 

[speedofl33t]

I'm sorry but how can a rock help someone if the person can't help himself? I personally see the human mind more powerful than a rock.

I'm not going to say AA and the likes are all bad, if they worked for you, that is fine. But some people just cannot fit into AA and I kind of understand why. If you just don't believe in a higher power, you can't do much about that. Surely there isn't a one size fit all? People must find their own way out of addiction? No? If you can't believe, I refuse to think that there is no hope for that person.

Me personally would have a huge problem if I broke a bad habit and not being allowed to take credits for that.

Also, I feel that AA sort of backwards glorify addiction. I happen to think if you break out of an addiction, you are no longer an addict. I don't think all people go back to a total normal, say someone addicted to alcohol should probably not drink even in moderation.

I think Dan meant he wasn't drinking anymore but is hooked on prescription drugs.

 

[VINCENT]

The rock is a way of saying, you make your own higher power. Where ever you find insipation and strength, you will find your higher power. No one will ever tell you that "you " didnt do it, pf course "you" did. But it takes finding your inner strength to do so, and for many your inner strength, and your higher power are one in the same. As for most people finding their own way out off addiction???? Well i'm not sure. Honestly i've never seen or even looked for the stats. What i do know is most of the addicts that i was mixed up with ended up in jail, and many ended up dead. Very few got sober, and even fewer got sober with no help. If they didnt find the rooms, they went to a rehab program, or they had family that acted as a support group. Infact i cant name a single person who is in recovery without some form of support. There are very very very few people who can go from abusing a substance to using it in moderation. Its just not something that happens all that often.

As for dan not drinking, but still being hooked on presrciption drugs(if thats what he was saying), well thats very typical behavior of an addict. I myself kicked meth only to dive deep into alcohol. I rarly drank but once i no longer had meth, it took less then a year for me to be knocking back huge quantities of alocohol every single night. Its less about what we are addicted to, and more about our behavior. Thats why when people stop smoking they usually gain weight. They switch from one behavior to another. Its the quintasensial description of an addict.

 

[danthesurvior]

i do believe in god and am a christian for that matter i just found the AA i went to to be too strict and told me what i believed about addiction was false so i guess i will say yes i quit alcohol w/little fanfare my rx meds are a addiction..so i will work on that the mental addiction the physical part is just what comes with pain meds..a few people in AA were the deal killer for ME..if it works for YOU keep doin it! and we all need higher power..i just think a mandatory rule on it is not a good thing imho

 

[speedofl33t]

The rock is a way of saying, you make your own higher power.

As for most people finding their own way out off addiction???? Well i'm not sure. Honestly i've never seen or even looked for the stats. What i do know is most of the addicts that i was mixed up with ended up in jail, and many ended up dead.

So you cannot do it alone because you are helpless and must ask the power for help. Yet you can create the higher power?

Of course I am not saying that people kick habits by just trying. What I mean is that there are other types of help than AA. Actually a lot of different types. AA isn't THE, but one of many methods.

 

[newprepr]

So you cannot do it alone because you are helpless and must ask the power for help. Yet you can create the higher power?

Of course I am not saying that people kick habits by just trying. What I mean is that there are other types of help than AA. Actually a lot of different types. AA isn't THE, but one of many methods.

No, you don't make your own higher power, the point is that left to your own thinking is what got you there.

Yes there are many ways, whatever works. I'm sober for 16 yrs and don't go to AA meetings. Do I recommend the way I do things? No, because most people will go back to drinking. I did say most and not all because people can do things alone. The amount of people who go through the doors of AA prove that the AA program works.

 

[reverendg]

Dan...If I were in your situation, I would talk with doctor about the possibility of using suboxone as a combination pain med/addiction treatment. Suboxone is not dispensable as a pain med in the USA, though over in europe they have pain patches for cancer patients utilizing suboxone. Suboxone is an interesting drug in that it is an opiate, and does relieve pain, without the attendant euphoria. It also ceases to work in the presence of any other opiate...causing immediate withdrawal symptoms to appear. In this way, it offers pain relief without a high, as well as providing good reason not to use while taking it. Check it out.

Speedof.....most everyone here can understand your inability to understand. That is exactly the way it is. There are other concepts of recovery, like "pathways"...but having seen interviews with his "success stories"....it seems that actually it was 12 step programs that provided the success, not pathways. Such has been the case now for three quarters of a century. I prefer proven methods.

 

[speedofl33t]

Speedof.....most everyone here can understand your inability to understand. That is exactly the way it is. There are other concepts of recovery, like "pathways"...but having seen interviews with his "success stories"....it seems that actually it was 12 step programs that provided the success, not pathways. Such has been the case now for three quarters of a century. I prefer proven methods.

Thanks for the insult. You mom must be proud.

So you say it is AA or nothing? So you want to say that those who can't take AA don't stand a chance?

Total bullcrap. I've seen AA messing people up because it wasn't right for them, and I've seen people succeed without or despite AA.

 

[VINCENT]

So you cannot do it alone because you are helpless and must ask the power for help. Yet you can create the higher power?

Of course I am not saying that people kick habits by just trying. What I mean is that there are other types of help than AA. Actually a lot of different types. AA isn't THE, but one of many methods.

speed, you seem to be the only person saying "A/A is the only way".i never said A/A or N/A was the only way.i dont think anyone here has said its the only way, infact i have said in the past that it doesnt matter how you get sober, just that you do.

as far as "creating" your own higher power thats incorrect. if i said you create your own, then i misspoke. what i ment was you must find your own.

 

[speedofl33t]

ReverendG was quite aggressive about hinting AA was the best, I don't know your take on it.

I still have a question of this higher power, and I understand misspeaking, it is not always easy to word what you know inside your head. If this higher power is not religious so to speak, what is it then?

And I'm not trying to be smart, I'm just trying to understand where AA is coming from on this.

 

[VINCENT]

let me go step up on the soap box for a second, and talk about stress, and triggers.

we all have differnt things that set us off, but one big thing for most of us is stress. in the job, at home, on the road, in our relationships, children, rapture,concerns of shtf. whatever it may be today that is causing you stress can be a trigger. recognizing the trigger is most important. by recognizing the trigger we can avoid it, we can ignore it, we can adjust our behavior to make that trigger go away.

today i had a technician come to me at my parts counter( thats my job, selling parts). he was instantly hostile, insulting, and agressive.in response i was rude, and argumentive in return. it caused the situation to escalate, and continue on for far longer then it needed to. i could have defused the situation by just doing my job, ignoring his behavior, and not engaging him in what (later) was obviously his intent to push my buttons and cause conflict. this even ended up with me, and 3 managers in an office for 30 minutes. i'm sure he ended up there too, but it does take 2 to argue. years ago i would have let this bother me, and it would have sat deep inside, festered, and by quitting time i would have been itchin' for a fix, or for a beer and a shot,(or 10). ya'all know what i'm talking about.

when we recognize these triggers to partake, we car better equipted to avoid a relapse or using. remember that in your day to day activity. not just so you dont use, but also so you dont end up in situations like i did this morning. i klnew that guy, and i knew his behavior. i also knew how i would react to it and so did he. next time i need to try harder to ignore him and i will be the better person for it.

be well my friends
vincent

 

[reverendg]

ReverendG was quite aggressive about hinting AA was the best, I don't know your take on it.

I still have a question of this higher power, and I understand misspeaking, it is not always easy to word what you know inside your head. If this higher power is not religious so to speak, what is it then?

And I'm not trying to be smart, I'm just trying to understand where AA is coming from on this.

It is not a hint ....it is a declaration of fact, based on data available.
If you don't like facts....that's fine. But don't blame me for vringing them to bear. Also, what is insulting about stating pertinent facts?

 

[speedofl33t]

It is not a hint ....it is a declaration of fact, based on data available.

I was ONLY telling Vincent that I didn't mean him on the comment he thought I meant him on. Sorry if my wording wasn't satisfactory.