[LED]

When ammo is scarce, it will be worth its weight in gold and more, and guns will be near worthless.

Guns may be worthless without ammo, but ammo is worthless without guns.

 

[toolman]

Are you really thinking that if times get really hard you are going to be able to sell a firearm to someone for anywhere close to what you paid for it? Who exactly would you be comfortable selling one to? A friend, a neighbor, a stranger? Someone who decides to buy a firearm, during very hard times, may not be someone that you would want to sell to. It could be used against you, for example.

I would not look to firearms as a wealth preservation tool. There are too many negatives to the transaction. Beans would be better in this example. It would be difficult for someone to use beans against you. Let the comments from from that last line commence.

Sell, maybe not. Trade/barter, yes. I would rather trade .22 bullets or something like that than the actual guns.

 

[Jeffrey]

There can be inherrent risks to stockpiling firearms for future sales.

1. Confiscation. Firearms can be confiscated by LEOs simply for investigation purposes. You could have commited no crime, yet have your guns confiscated and be forced to hire a laywer and fight it out in court to get them back.
2. Liability. In some areas there are high requirements to owning/storing firearms including safes or insurance.
3. Bulk. Anyone carry around $20k in gold in one pocket and no one know its there. Try carrying $20k in guns to a flea market without being a vendor.
4. Theft. Guns are the #2 items thieves like to steal (second to cash).
5. Insurance restrictions. Most insurance companies require serial numbers, receipts, and/or pictures before issuing a policy to cover them. If you want to insure PMs, just take them to your agent's office and he cannot dispute it.
6. Legal requirements for transaction. There is no current paperwork required to buy/sell gold and you dont have to get "permission" from anyone to do either.
7. Future laws. It is entirely possible for laws to be enacted later that could have you completely lose your investment as far as resale value. "New law enacted today banning the transfer of firearms once they have been used." "New law enacted today banning the inheritance of firearms. Once a firearm owner has died, his fireams must be surrendered." "New law enacted today requiring all firearms to be registered, and the database to be public knowledge."

 

[RedWoods]

I would think a good quantity of common caliber ammo would be a better way to store wealth. With commodity prices increasing the ammo should do well,last a long time and be able to be sold in whatever amount you want. Ammo priced fairly seems to move well at gun shows.

With guns there is a wide difference between what one thinks a gun is worth and the real cash value. With many selling guns to pay bills you may get some very good deals at a realistic cash value.

Most of my life I accumulated guns as a easy investment asset I could also use and enjoy. Like a few others lately I'm questioning that plan and cashing in my excess guns. I have more than a few worries about potential laws and a glut on the market because of guns being turned into cash by unemployed owners.

I've been selling off a lot of my extra guns and it isn't as easy these days as before things went bust. Research the actual cash value of anything before you buy to maximize your chances.

Any investment has potential pitfalls,its just a matter of figuring the risk to reward.

Red

How about guns as simply a store of wealth for when August 2nd comes and supposedly interest rates will skyrocket, increasing the price of everything, or similar situation? That's more of what I'm thinking about versus SHTF type scenarios.

 

[RedWoods]

All great points.

I would rather have $20k worth of ammo instead but what a heavy bulky investment that is. I spent a good amount of money building a secure safe place to store ammo I accumulated over decades.

Red

There can be inherrent risks to stockpiling firearms for future sales.

1. Confiscation. Firearms can be confiscated by LEOs simply for investigation purposes. You could have commited no crime, yet have your guns confiscated and be forced to hire a laywer and fight it out in court to get them back.
2. Liability. In some areas there are high requirements to owning/storing firearms including safes or insurance.
3. Bulk. Anyone carry around $20k in gold in one pocket and no one know its there. Try carrying $20k in guns to a flea market without being a vendor.
4. Theft. Guns are the #2 items thieves like to steal (second to cash).
5. Insurance restrictions. Most insurance companies require serial numbers, receipts, and/or pictures before issuing a policy to cover them. If you want to insure PMs, just take them to your agent's office and he cannot dispute it.
6. Legal requirements for transaction. There is no current paperwork required to buy/sell gold and you dont have to get "permission" from anyone to do either.
7. Future laws. It is entirely possible for laws to be enacted later that could have you completely lose your investment as far as resale value. "New law enacted today banning the transfer of firearms once they have been used." "New law enacted today banning the inheritance of firearms. Once a firearm owner has died, his fireams must be surrendered." "New law enacted today requiring all firearms to be registered, and the database to be public knowledge."

 

[sierra skier]

My firearms collection is not huge by any means. We have enough firearms to have each of us armed with a battle rifle, a scoped rifle, shotgun and handgun. There are a few more, for example we have a couple of 10/22 rifles and a revolver and semi-auto in 22 cal. for training others and practice.

The big thing is ammunition. Guns don't really get 'used up' but ammunition does, so we have plenty of ammunition in common and military calibers for hunting and training/self defense as is necessary. We stock a large amount of 22 cal which can be used for training, hunting small game or barter if necessary. With the price of commodities going up in FRN prices I feel a comfortable amount of ammunition on hand is a great hedge against inflation and possible availability issues.

YMMV but I feel having enough ammunition available for proficiency training is a must and it gives me great comfort knowing it is here.

 

[ozarkeagle]

Stalin took everything, there is no place to hide

 

[Deadmeat99]

ask gangs in darfur . in every third world country with some kind of armed conflict , even civil or gang wars, AK ammo is almost a currency , altough some citizens are not part of this market

More hear-say. Does anyone have an actual documented account of ammo being used as "currency"? The ammo-as-currency meme has taken hold in forums like these because of survival fiction, but I cannot find any actual real world examples of such a thing ever happening. People may barter/trade it, sure, but that doesn't come anywhere close to currency.

 

[NavigatinCollapse]

Depends on what your buying pms for. A store of welath for the next 50 years like until retirement. A rare one would be a good investment. A rare quality piece will rise in value over the next 50 years. Especially something that has already been banned for importation like Swiss 552s, quality Galils, FNCs, Famas, or maybe a Spaz or the striker aka street sweeper.

 

[ToeCutter]

Guns may be worthless without ammo, but ammo is worthless without guns.

True, but the salient point is that ammo is a consumable... it gets used up. Guns remain serviceable for many many years with a little TLC. In other words, there will be no severe gun shortage.

 

[zeme05]

I have been buying and selling guns for 40+ years and have never lost money selling them. Here in Texas we are lucky as a gun friendly state. I bought my first .45 auto for $35 it would bring $1750 min today.

 

[riko]

Everyones been talking about guns and ammo as a barter item. What about gun parts? They would be worth big money when the SHTF.

 

[Mugwump]

Confiscation. Firearms can be confiscated by LEOs simply for investigation purposes

How's that going to happen? Nothing here is papered nor is there a requirement that the items be booked.

Aside from that, kick down this home door and the G will without question save money by not having paying out some pension money.

 

[Survivalguy72]

If SHTF ever did happen, the last thing I would do is arm anyone.

 

[Daganga]

To all the folks saying that it's not a good idea to trade guns in a SHTF scenario, what about selling or trading them in the future? Not everything has to do with the end of the world, sometimes things just move forward (for better or worse).

And why not trade a gun to someone you trust implicitly? Or having extra in case you have to take in friends or family if the S does HTF. At least you would have armed allies.

I know this is a tiny economic sample but I bought a Romanian WASR-10 AK-47 about 5 years ago for around $360. Same gun at same store today costs $500. And brass has been getting expensive to my knowledge as well.

In my opinion, anything that holds its value traditionally is a good hedge, although as it's been said before, it's not liquid enough to be a proper investment. As sierra skier was saying: beans, bullets, band aids and bullion. It's even in order.

 

[Silver Survivor]

Armed and dangerous...if you have a gun, that's what they'll think about you in a shtf senario.

What good is a gun if you don't have the balls to kill someone ??

Are you sure you want to kill someone over what might be a minor thing like a bag of groceries or a couple of bucks ??

There's lots of guys in prison already for gun related issues, you want to be one of them ??

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

 

[MIL-DOT]

....Are you sure you want to kill someone over what might be a minor thing like a bag of groceries or a couple of bucks ??

There's lots of guys in prison already for gun related issues, you want to be one of them ??.

The discussion is largely about a post-collapse environment, so yes, me,you and everybody, in a SHTF/TEOTWAWKI situation, would kill someone over a bag of groceries, since the person taking said bag would almost assuredly be doing so by force ( so therefore.... self-defense).

 

[aramchek]

I can't think of any historical example since the invention of guns such that they have become scarce. The only exception that comes to mind is their prohibition by a top-heavy government, but then that really does make them a problematic investment. Even more or less "modern" guns can be made with nearly 100 year-old technology. Even gunpowder predates electricity by a couple centuries. So I can't really see a scenario where they suddenly become scarce, except their confiscation.

Guns may be worthless without ammo, but ammo is worthless without guns.

 

[VINCENT]

Can anyone show a real world example of this outside of survival fiction and armageddon movies?

in parts of africa an ak47 can be traded for a chicken, and a bandolieer of ammo will fetch the same. thats bullets=guns or ammo

 

[VINCENT]

bullets are like silver , they are cheap and can be used for daily transactions in SHTF.

guns is more difficult to use as a currency as their price is much higher, they are like gold.

if i wasnt living in a no-gun country like israel, i would rather buy guns and ammo than precious metals , because they have practical uses beyond their commercial value.
this is why i say :
"you cant eat gold and silver , nor lead and steel , but you can defintly use the 2 last to put food on the table and defend your family."

recently in the middle east home made guns have become very popular, and the most common of these has been built on the 12 ga shot gun plat form. they are mostly single shot zip guns . stocking up on 12 gauge ammo could be very profitable, but its impossible to guess what type of ammo someone may want....thats why i stock what i shoot and a few other popular sizes i dont. i dont see a reason to store a bunch of odd ball calibers.