[LED]

Didn't know if this should be in the Firearms thread or not. I thought here was best since we're talking about it in a financial sense.

Now that Gold and Silver are uncomfortably high as far as buying any, I'm thinking of other things that are still relatively low. Guns, for example. Would they make sense to buy and hold onto as a means or storing wealth? Here's my reasoning:

The dollar is collapsing. Dollars are used to buy things. So things that keep their value would be a good store of wealth, and guns seem to fit that bill. So when the dollar drops in value, it takes more dollars to buy the same guns, which means the guns are now worth more dollars.

BUT, and there's always a "but", I'd like to know (if what I said above is true) why guns haven't really increased in price all that much like PM's have. A Glock doesn't cost significantly more than it used to when it first came out. During that time, Gold has gone up 500%.

So what do you think? Guns as a store of wealth and alternative to PM's? And I'm talking about common firearms like Glocks, etc. as opposed to collector editions or full autos.

 

[vigilance]

While I can't offer you any speculation financially, I personally feel blued steel and brass is more precious to me than gold or silver.

 

[housecalldoc]

Have been doing both since the 90's.Guns are less expensive than PM because most have been prostituting with flammable wealth.And now are running away.Wait until those who don't have rise up.Then lead projectiles will be as available as un obtainium!

 

[SLICK75]

Whats going to happen to them if the gov succeeds in outlawing them completely or at least the private sale/transfer?

I know this is a slight risk at best, but it is a possibility, now youve stored a bunch of hardware that could catch you a nice felony charge.

Youd be better off stockpiling generators or gas, something that government forces arent trying to outlaw.

Now, stockpiling weapons for personal use, thats another ball game altogether. You can never have enough guns and ammo.

 

[LEPER]

Are you really thinking that if times get really hard you are going to be able to sell a firearm to someone for anywhere close to what you paid for it? Who exactly would you be comfortable selling one to? A friend, a neighbor, a stranger? Someone who decides to buy a firearm, during very hard times, may not be someone that you would want to sell to. It could be used against you, for example.

I would not look to firearms as a wealth preservation tool. There are too many negatives to the transaction. Beans would be better in this example. It would be difficult for someone to use beans against you. Let the comments from from that last line commence.

 

[EdD270]

Guns are definately something to stock up on.
However, UNLIKE PM's, I would certainly not trade/barter a gun to someone else in a post-SHTF world. Too great a chance they would use the gun you just traded to them to take away everything else you have. You trade PM's for something, the other guy just has PM's. You trade a gun, the other guy has your weapon.

 

[vicdotcom]

I think it depends on the gun. There are some that will certainly always be desirable and will appreciate in value. Others will not. There are more people investing in guns instead of a 401k.

Now I do not think it is a "store" of wealth... since it is a limited market for guns and more can always be made. But it will certainly appreciate in value. Especially as the costs of producing new guns increase.

 

[LED]

Yeah, I've also noticed that the retail prices of guns go up each year too. A look through the catalogs shows this. But the price on the store shelf doesn't always seem to match. I have a S&W model 10 and the retail is now around $850 or so. I thought I really had me an investment until my dealer said he'd only give me about $200 in trade for it. Said he sells them new for only about $300.

 

[Jash]

Guns are not PM's. PM's are a store of wealth that can be easily transported, recognized and exchanged, guns are not. You cannot put $50,000 of guns in your pocket. You cannot take them to another country and exchange them for the local currency (easily).

Once upon a time (many hundreds of years ago) firearms were almost as valuable as PM's, but that was because they were expensive to make and required great craftsmanship.

Silver is NOT expensive when compared to it's historical average ratio to gold. It's a dead set bargain, even at $40+ per ounce.

If TSHTF and people need to barter to survive, silver and gold will trump guns 99% of the time. If you really want something affordable that preserves wealth, buy things like soap, TP, toothbrushes etc. Those things are going to only get more expensive as time goes on, and they will make great barter items.

Ask youself this question, will $500 of silver or $500 of guns go up in value more as the fiat ponzi scheme comes undone? My bet is most people will focus on PM's rather than firearms.

 

[LED]

I was thinking the same thing about silver not long ago when the price just kept going up and up. So I go to my dealer and get 2 oz. for $53 each when the price was $48. Then 3 days later, the spot price fell $20! Kind of soured me a little.

 

[Mule Skinner]

Are you really thinking that if times get really hard you are going to be able to sell a firearm to someone for anywhere close to what you paid for it? Who exactly would you be comfortable selling one to? A friend, a neighbor, a stranger? Someone who decides to buy a firearm, during very hard times, may not be someone that you would want to sell to. It could be used against you, for example.

I would not look to firearms as a wealth preservation tool. There are too many negatives to the transaction. Beans would be better in this example. It would be difficult for someone to use beans against you. Let the comments from from that last line commence.

Gas warfare.

 

[tobkis]

Are you really thinking that if times get really hard you are going to be able to sell a firearm to someone for anywhere close to what you paid for it? Who exactly would you be comfortable selling one to? A friend, a neighbor, a stranger? Someone who decides to buy a firearm, during very hard times, may not be someone that you would want to sell to. It could be used against you, for example.

I would not look to firearms as a wealth preservation tool. There are too many negatives to the transaction. Beans would be better in this example. It would be difficult for someone to use beans against you. Let the comments from from that last line commence.

Good points but the same can be said for PM's? Who will you sell or trade to? Hard times bring the worst and best of people. When you barter with PM are you going to be armed? If it does come to a PM standard to sustain life you will need a armed guard?

 

[SLICK75]

Gas warfare.

LOL Theres one :thumb:

 

[vicdotcom]

Yeah, I've also noticed that the retail prices of guns go up each year too. A look through the catalogs shows this. But the price on the store shelf doesn't always seem to match. I have a S&W model 10 and the retail is now around $850 or so. I thought I really had me an investment until my dealer said he'd only give me about $200 in trade for it. Said he sells them new for only about $300.

Two things... are you looking at "MSRP" in the catalog? If so, ignore that number LOL No one pays MSRP.

If using a gun-value guide:
Remember, firearm prices are regional. One model down south can be much cheaper up north. $300-$350 is about right for a model 10 in this area. It also depends on what Version Model 10 you have. Some that are more rare cost a little more. And of course, condition.

 

[MIL-DOT]

Being a gun & PM owner, and food hoarder,I've given this issue considerable thought (FWIW : ).
First, we WILL be facing global-level gun bans in the not-too-distant future. Yeah,yeah, I know,blah,blah,blah,"Not in THIS country", and "...from my cold dead hands..." and so forth. Whatever. I've been in the minority on this issue,here and on other forums, for some time.
Nevertheless.......I guarantee you that it's coming. But, it's also likely coming for gold and silver,too. And, it's coming for food and farm land. And your pension funds. And whatever else you imagine will preserve your independence and freedom.
Their plan IS coming to fruition, while ours is being slowly dismembered.
And, to all those that I fully expect to either ignore or condemn this post, I gotta ask.......do you actually READ all the posts on this forum ?? I mean REALLY read them ???
Everyone claims to see the "signs on the horizon",sure, but only to a point. Then everyone seems to tuck back into the fetal postion, and start chanting, "it's all gonna work out, we're gonna win in the end,it's all gonna work out......".

Except that it isn't.


(edit) LOL !! The post below mine illustrates my point perfectly !! If a smart,strong,independent,"back-against-the-wall" country like Israel ( or England) can be castrated and made a "no-gun country", then how easy will it one day be to do to ours ? Notice he doesn't say,"screw those jack-booted thugs, I'll never give up my guns"? He, the disarmed, is merely giving advice to those that haven't yet been.

....if i wasnt living in a no-gun country like Israel, i would rather buy guns and ammo than precious metals

Believe it or not, I've recently been liquidating a few of my toys, in anticipation of being stuck with more than I can shoot when Obammy inevitably goes back on his campaign statements.

 

[JeremyIsraeliPrepper]

bullets are like silver , they are cheap and can be used for daily transactions in SHTF.

guns is more difficult to use as a currency as their price is much higher, they are like gold.

if i wasnt living in a no-gun country like israel, i would rather buy guns and ammo than precious metals , because they have practical uses beyond their commercial value.
this is why i say :
"you cant eat gold and silver , nor lead and steel , but you can defintly use the 2 last to put food on the table and defend your family."

 

[DBR]

Colonel Jeff Cooper once referred to .22 Long Rifle ammunition as, "Ballistic Wampum."

I really don't think that it's a good idea, no matter which way you intend on doing it, to arm a desperate man who might not be too happy about your trade values and he was unarmed when you made the deal. Just a hint.

I would be hesitant to trade knives as well. Just me.

 

[JeremyIsraeliPrepper]

Colonel Jeff Cooper once referred to .22 Long Rifle ammunition as, "Ballistic Wampum."

I really don't think that it's a good idea, no matter which way you intend on doing it, to arm a desperate man who might not be too happy about your trade values and he was unarmed when you made the deal. Just a hint.

I would be hesitant to trade knives as well. Just me.

if someone plans on trading guns and ammo in SHTF scenario , it should only be done in very organized conditions , like the warlords in the movie "the book of eli".

and the golden rule : never arm someone better or equivalent to your crew arsenal .

if you are selling 9mm pistols , wear body armor and have a full powered rifle in hands.

if you are selling RPGs , live in a bunker and have tanks equipped with reactive armor

 

[sierra skier]

Didn't know if this should be in the Firearms thread or not. I thought here was best since we're talking about it in a financial sense.

Now that Gold and Silver are uncomfortably high as far as buying any, I'm thinking of other things that are still relatively low. Guns, for example. Would they make sense to buy and hold onto as a means or storing wealth? Here's my reasoning:

The dollar is collapsing. Dollars are used to buy things. So things that keep their value would be a good store of wealth, and guns seem to fit that bill. So when the dollar drops in value, it takes more dollars to buy the same guns, which means the guns are now worth more dollars.

BUT, and there's always a "but", I'd like to know (if what I said above is true) why guns haven't really increased in price all that much like PM's have. A Glock doesn't cost significantly more than it used to when it first came out. During that time, Gold has gone up 500%.

So what do you think? Guns as a store of wealth and alternative to PM's? And I'm talking about common firearms like Glocks, etc. as opposed to collector editions or full autos.

Firearms and ammunition are both great and necessary investments and in my book should be seriously considered whether for prepping or not. I feel they are a basic consideration for any household regardless. Firearms do not replace PMs but should be part of a balanced deep larder along with the rest of beans bullets, band aids and bullion.

Bullion is the final step in a balanced larder for prepping. I set my preps in stages where I acquired beans, bullets and band aids to a predetermined goal and then added some bullion. As I expanded each stage to include the first 3 basics for a deeper larder I enhanced each stage with another purchase of bullion.

For example if my first stage was a month (or 3) for food, I would enhance that with a minimum amount of first aid and firearms/ammo. After that was done I would consider bullion next or continue with a more enhanced food and basics larder until I had satisfied my requirements. Only then did I go after bullion for storage of extra wealth.

In my reality though I have been into firearms for a much longer time than I have been into prepping. Living in California I began dealing with and being aware of very constrictive state laws on firearms in the early 90's so my firearms acquisitions started many years before I really worried about other preps. I didn't really start prepping until around 2004-5. We always had food enough for a couple of weeks or a month, but when my worries about the condition of our economic world became more clear I began my more serious journey.

A well balanced firearms quiver would include handguns which are easy to have on your person 24/7. Shotguns which are good for hunting and self defense. MBRs (main battle rifles), probably a semi-auto military style. A scoped bolt action hunting/sniper rifle. These firearms should include plenty of magazines, spare parts as necessary and should all be in common/military calibers. You should store as much ammunition as you consider proper for any situations that may arise including training and hunting/self defense.

 

[Zombie Hunt Club]

I think having both is the way to go! If you dont have a cache of firearms, someone with one can come take your PM's.

I understand the idea that some people espouse which is - never trade or sell something that can be used against you. I think you have to be smart about it but I certainly plan on being able to barter ammo, etc.