[Ace in the hole]

Hello, someone on here a few weeks ago started a thread about building a bug out bag week by week. It kind of got off subject. I wanted to start a new thread and get a group together working on the same style of bag. First item is the bag. I have a lot of stuff for my bag already. I will just post what we decide on is the next item as I go. Let's get started. These are my bags. I have the large and medium. If we all work on the same bag I think it will help with mods. I have done the Hellcat mod that is on here in a forum. It was very helpful. Let's roll!

 

[atomic17]

Im all in favor of this, seeing as im also getting an alice pack this week. Id go with the large one, so there is less compromising on gear because of size and weight problems. That having been said, whats a hellcat mod? It would probably be a good start to mention the details of the bag itself.

 

[Ace in the hole]

Welcome to the thread! The Hellcat mod is Alice pack with Molle shoulder pads and kidney belt. I have a couple of friends from work that might be joining. We will decide what to get each week together. No need to wait on us though. Like I said I have a lot of stuff now and will be sharing after we decide that is the weeks item. I think we will have a nice mix of input. Thanks for joining.

 

[PLA]

Well, IMO the biggest problem with the ALICE system is what you are keeping. The MOLLE straps are much better than the originals, I like the Large ALICE, especially the TT modded one. But the frame is now and forever will be the weak link. Ive had one of the sides snap and jab me in the lat muscle with a heavy load on it. Boy, wasnt that fun. Actually, if I discribed it accurately Id get banned for the language by the mods.

Its a good idea, but your staying with the frame may bite you.

 

[atomic17]

Well, IMO the biggest problem with the ALICE system is what you are keeping. The MOLLE straps are much better than the originals, I like the Large ALICE, especially the TT modded one. But the frame is now and forever will be the weak link. Ive had one of the sides snap and jab me in the lat muscle with a heavy load on it. Boy, wasnt that fun. Actually, if I discribed it accurately Id get banned for the language by the mods.

Its a good idea, but your staying with the frame may bite you.

Was it the frame that snapped or a rivet that gave out? Because i had heard of rivet failure on alice packs and was considering replacing them with copper ones (expensive but much stronger)

 

[OLDWarrior64]

I'll chime in on this a bit. I agree with PLA, the horizontal bars came pop or I've seen the frame bend under heavy loads. If you can reinforce these I would suggest that as well. The upgrade of the MOLLE straps is a definite plus.I've had rivets pop on the frame, most times it was the top one. I would say if you upgrade and reinforce it, by all means do so.

Personally I've made some modifications to the pack itself, but never the frame.

Hope this helps.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I am thinking about ordering an ALICE pack but don't know what size to get. I am thinking minimalist, but don't want to short myself in the long run. Do both size bags interchange on the same frame easily? If I get one I plan to beef up the frame if needed and add some extra padding.

 

[OLDWarrior64]

I am thinking about ordering an ALICE pack but don't know what size to get. I am thinking minimalist, but don't want to short myself in the long run. Do both size bags interchange on the same frame easily? If I get one I plan to beef up the frame if needed and add some extra padding.

Sure, you can put a medium ALICE on a frame, but the large ALICE isnt made to be used without a frame. The packs are about the same height, the large ALICE is just fatter with more pockets, thus putting the center of gravity further away from your back, takes some practice in packing it.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I wanted to add this is the best price I have found on the bags...http://www.armygear.net/ag/store/search.html?tf=sku&bs=1&em=1&su=1&ml=15&fi=products&st=db&tf=prod_group&sf=category&se=Alice%20Packs%20and%20Components...unless some one knows of a better deal.

 

[OLDWarrior64]

Seems like a good deal, as long as shipping isnt that outrageous. You can check on ebay as well as see if you might find a steal...I mean deal

 

[PLA]

Thats probably the best deal on a large Ive seen. And it looks like its new. I need more packs like I need more wives, but I might grab a few of those.

If you are going to mod your frame there are a few threads on here about frame swaps. Mine is on the top of this page, on page 2 covers ALICE mods. Theres another thread, somebody posted a welded frame that looked great, and I wish I had saved it or posted on it so I could find it again, but I had ordered the packs Im running now and couldnt see another ALICE build. Definately keep the MOLLE straps, they are equal to the custom straps and much cheaper.

By the time you reenforce this frame, you could just do a direct swap with a freighter type frame and call it good. And save the hassle of reenforcing aluminum tubing, which really is a contradiction. You MIGHT, if it works for you, get the MOLLE frame and strap set, then attach the Large ALICE, and run with that. I think you would do very well with that setup. I really like the large Alice, its a good pack if packed properly, and Ive never seen the main body of one break out at the seams like I have some other packs. I have seen the pockets tear off, but razor wire will do that to most anything.

The frame I broke, or broke me depending on what angle you were watching from snapped at the rivet, the upright tube broke in half at the rivet hole, the top half stabbing me while the bottom half was working on cutting me in a side to side motion. To be fair, I had a full large ruck, a M47 Dragon and the day sight, and a PRC77 in the radio pocket. All total that frame had over 100 lbs on it. Wasnt a normal load, just trying to get all the crap off the LZ in a hurry. Didnt work out like I planned it, but so few ops do. The biggest advantage of the ALICE is you can attach things like AT Missiles, cache tubes and other odd shaped things which fit under the straps incredably fast. Just jam it under, pull the strap tight and go.

My favorite Kifaru packs cant do that. At least not nearly as well.

 

[Ace in the hole]

I'm here now!!! I had a 55 to 60lbs load with the Molle Kidney pad. It tore up my lower back. It was digging in hard. I just used a slumberjack camp pillow. This was a huge improvement. I thinking of some way to pad it up more. I will have to check out some of these different frames. The frame in this blog is sweet! http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=47472&highlight=Alice+packs
Anybody out there have some pics of there mod for padding? I would like to keep the original frame. I don't think it is as weak as some might say. I have heard they are good to 100lbs.

 

[Ace in the hole]

You MIGHT, if it works for you, get the MOLLE frame and strap set, then attach the Large ALICE, and run with that. I think you would do very well with that setup.

Stay away from the molle frame. These plastic frames will break over 60 lbs.

 

[Cryptkeeper]

Thats probably the best deal on a large Ive seen. And it looks like its new. I need more packs like I need more wives, but I might grab a few of those.

If you are going to mod your frame there are a few threads on here about frame swaps. Mine is on the top of this page, on page 2 covers ALICE mods. Theres another thread, somebody posted a welded frame that looked great, and I wish I had saved it or posted on it so I could find it again, but I had ordered the packs Im running now and couldnt see another ALICE build. Definately keep the MOLLE straps, they are equal to the custom straps and much cheaper.

By the time you reenforce this frame, you could just do a direct swap with a freighter type frame and call it good. And save the hassle of reenforcing aluminum tubing, which really is a contradiction. You MIGHT, if it works for you, get the MOLLE frame and strap set, then attach the Large ALICE, and run with that. I think you would do very well with that setup. I really like the large Alice, its a good pack if packed properly, and Ive never seen the main body of one break out at the seams like I have some other packs. I have seen the pockets tear off, but razor wire will do that to most anything.

The frame I broke, or broke me depending on what angle you were watching from snapped at the rivet, the upright tube broke in half at the rivet hole, the top half stabbing me while the bottom half was working on cutting me in a side to side motion. To be fair, I had a full large ruck, a M47 Dragon and the day sight, and a PRC77 in the radio pocket. All total that frame had over 100 lbs on it. Wasnt a normal load, just trying to get all the crap off the LZ in a hurry. Didnt work out like I planned it, but so few ops do. The biggest advantage of the ALICE is you can attach things like AT Missiles, cache tubes and other odd shaped things which fit under the straps incredably fast. Just jam it under, pull the strap tight and go.

My favorite Kifaru packs cant do that. At least not nearly as well.

can you give a link to what freighter frame fits good with an alice LARGE pack plz

if you look at some of the military supply stores ive noticed some carry 2 different types of alice pack frames one seems to be a G.I. style or mil-spec which is cheaper ,the other is military issue. maybe alot of the ones that are breaking under normal loads are comming from china (mil-spec)? anything will break if you over load it.

 

[justin_baker]

I wanted to add this is the best price I have found on the bags...http://www.armygear.net/ag/store/search.html?tf=sku&bs=1&em=1&su=1&ml=15&fi=products&st=db&tf=prod_group&sf=category&se=Alice%20Packs%20and%20Components...unless some one knows of a better deal.

Yes thats a great deal.

 

[Ace in the hole]

So do we have anybody on board? I think we have Mr. Shackleford and atomic17. This weekend is the bag. Next weekend we will have to decide what's next to add to the bag. We don't need to start now, but be thinking about it. I can't wait to see some of the mods other than the frame. I will try to find some of the other frames out there and post some pics. Make sure you check that link I put on here and see that set up. It has very good pics for the molle upgraded pads.

 

[PLA]

can you give a link to what freighter frame fits good with an alice LARGE pack plz

if you look at some of the military supply stores ive noticed some carry 2 different types of alice pack frames one seems to be a G.I. style or mil-spec which is cheaper ,the other is military issue. maybe alot of the ones that are breaking under normal loads are comming from china (mil-spec)? anything will break if you over load it.

Cabelas has a really nice frame called the Alaskan which Ive seen used for years of hard use. Look at my gear post above stickied, page 2 for how it all works.

Somebody used one of these freighter frames and posted pics. Looked awesome and the frame looks like you could carry a person on it if you could lift it

http://www.bullpacs.com/

This is the one I would have bought if I still used the Alice daily

 

[PLA]

I'm here now!!! I had a 55 to 60lbs load with the Molle Kidney pad. It tore up my lower back. It was digging in hard. I just used a slumberjack camp pillow. This was a huge improvement. I thinking of some way to pad it up more. I will have to check out some of these different frames. The frame in this blog is sweet! http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=47472&highlight=Alice+packs
Anybody out there have some pics of there mod for padding? I would like to keep the original frame. I don't think it is as weak as some might say. I have heard they are good to 100lbs.

I can tell you for sure as an RTO my frame went to CIF every time we came out of the field because it was bent, and my normal load wasnt any heavier than asst 60 mm crew or AT gunners, and they had the same issues I did. WHEN it bends YOU cannot fix it in the field, I know, Ive tried, along with untold numbers of grunts since alice became our unwilling wives. And once it bends, its no fun to carry.

Yes, thats one of the pack posts I was talking about, he did a really nice job on that rig, I liked it a lot

 

[atomic17]

You could temper the frame; that would make it stronger, but it would also become brittle and would eventually fail catastrophically. My dad (a mechanical engineer) jokingly suggested filling the tubes with concrete for added strength, but weight becomes a problem...

As i said earlier, drilling the rivets and replacing them with bolts and lock washers or copper rivets is a good insurance policy against the frame tearing itself apart at the joints...

 

[PLA]

You could temper the frame; that would make it stronger, but it would also become brittle and would eventually fail catastrophically. My dad (a mechanical engineer) jokingly suggested filling the tubes with concrete for added strength, but weight becomes a problem...

As i said earlier, drilling the rivets and replacing them with bolts and lock washers or copper rivets is a good insurance policy against the frame tearing itself apart at the joints...

Thats funny you suggested the concrete idea, because a few of us thought some heavy aircraft cable inside the frame might be a great idea, but killed it when we thought, why, when better options were available commercially without having to try to run cable through the corners of that frame.

And mine broke using the rivet hole as a weak spot, the metal actually tore, like a beer can does when you twist it.