.....Now, I know there are gold bugs who like to talk about the death of the dollar. But with other central banks actively debasing their currency and America on the cusp of tightening monetary policy, well, I simply don’t see how we can expect anything but a strong dollar for some time.

thats the rub, isnt it. the people who love to talk about the death of the dollar as it's some hypothetical thing that can be examined in a vacuum

the value of anything is just how much of something else someone will give you for it.

it doesnt matter if america is in the toilet financially, so long as other nations arent further in the toilet.

 

"It doesn't matter if America is in the toilet financially". :xeye:Are you on mescaline?

 

Sounds like TPTB really don't want Americans to buy gold, but keep investing as usual until the next crash. I'm not sure I've ever heard a better reason to buy some now while the price is lower.

 

I particularly enjoyed this part:

There’s a 6.1% unemployment rate, which is down nearly 4 percentage points from peak levels and the lowest since September 2008. At the same time, claims for unemployment just hit the lowest level since early 2007. If you think that is all because of people giving up on work, that’s willfully naïve.

I'm not sure which is worse, ignoring the data of people giving up and leaving the workforce, or ridiculing those that mention the fact that it impacts the reported unemployment numbers.

 

I particularly enjoyed this part:
I'm not sure which is worse, ignoring the data of people giving up and leaving the workforce, or ridiculing those that mention the fact that it impacts the reported unemployment numbers.

Spoke with a friend the other day who has run a successful business for over 40 years. He was pretty distressed because his INSURANCE rates (public liability and employee insurance) have been raised from about $6,000 per year to over $23,000 per YEAR.

I don't think it's an isolated occurrence.

If this is happening all across America, it will definitely result in lost jobs and closed business. The Democrats seem to have that as a primary goal. So I for one have absolutely ZERO confidence in the numbers that come from Washington.

 

If they have to tell you everything is going well, then its not. Jus like people that have to tell you they care really don't.

If things were really going well no one would have to tell you, you'd know.

 

Things might be headed down the crapper, but we have a lot of swirling the bowl to do before the global financial collapse.

The Fed propping up the dollar isn't the last stand. The IMF issuing SDRs to America will be the last desperate attempt to stave off global financial collapse. Personally, I'm not worrying until then.

I will, however, remain in a state of slow, constant, and steady accumulation, and when it all comes down, you bet your bottom dollar I'll have some silver and gold lying around! Talking head be damned! :thumb:

 

QFT. This is the healthiest mentality most can take on this, sit back continue living, and accumulating.

 

Since congress just punted and passed yet another another continuing authorization that will carry the government until after the mid-terms, everything appears to be just fine.

On the other hand, since China has opened the Shanghai Gold Exchange, it could also be seen as a situation where gold and other precious metals are now flooding the markets, driving the prices down.

 

Gold is nothing but another fiat currency and will probably be worthless in a true financial collapse. I'd more invest in conventional prepping, because in a true collapse, where the economy grounds to a halt, no one is going to care about how much gold you have. Historically during certain economic crises, gold has shown itself to be rather worthless. For example, when the Japanese invaded Manchuria, many wealthy Chinese families traded their high-quality jewelry. Gold was not worth much of anything.

 

Gold is nothing but another fiat currency and will probably be worthless in a true financial collapse. I'd more invest in conventional prepping, because in a true collapse, where the economy grounds to a halt, no one is going to care about how much gold you have. Historically during certain economic crises, gold has shown itself to be rather worthless. For example, when the Japanese invaded Manchuria, many wealthy Chinese families traded their high-quality jewelry. Gold was not worth much of anything.

what did the non wealthy families trade?

 

"Gold.....now tarnished for good"

Pm's were never in "play" for J6P so in whose eyes are they tarnished? speculators? good let'em follow the pack off the cliff.

It seems simple to me you either believe in preserving wealth thru PM's or not.

A collapse in the metals prices in this made up Fed fantasy existence should be viewed with the same suspicion as job numbers but if you believe you stay the course and play out the hand.

FWIW coming back from the Dentist today we passed a Restaurant we frequent(they been their for at least 10 years) and they're closing at the end of the month.

 

I heard someone say Wall Street is like a Casino and I agree.
Speculation, market manipulation, bribery. It all happens there.
And these are the people that want you to ignore Gold and Silver
and invest you're cash so they can gamble, lie, cheat, steal, with it.
No I don't have anything good to say about them and I don't have
anything good to say about occupy either. It's like the USA is some
giant freak show.

 

I would have to disagree that money is a claim on energy. Money is just the medium of exchange we use to trade the various goods and services produced in society. Fiat currency isn't really an idea so much as just a reality. All forms of currency are ultimately fiat. So long as the government gets the country's finances under control (hopefully won't be permanent wishful thinking), then the dollar will remain plenty stable. It will be quite some time before the country will get to a point where the world will lose faith in the dollar. There aren't any safer currencies out there right now, and if the finances start to get too out-of-control, the government can raise taxes as the U.S.'s taxes are rather low in comparison to other countries (not that this would be preferable, but I mean if they absolutely had to, they could do it).

 

That's an interesting discussion. Why do you think money isn't a claim on energy?

I think it is because money is used to buy goods and services, all of which require energy input to produce.

 

This is quite possibly the best post I have ever read.

 

What exactly are you talking about? :xeye:

 

Tarnished?
Hardly, if you dont believe the propaganda.

I agree that no level of taxation will work, we've gone to far down the rabbit hole for anything other than out right confiscation which in itself will be another disaster. So to sum it up no recovery.

I'm constantly amazed at how the facts are out there and people STILL are clueless to the value of gold and silver. Currently record buying is out pacing suppy and my online dealer is out of half of what i usually buy. The biggest investment firms like Goldman, JP Morgan and others aquire constantly for the company vaults and are currently camped out at the Shanghai Gold Exchange. China and Russia are both acquiring gold at a fast pace. How many countries currently want to repatriate their gold? Why would they? Gold is the ultimate buying POWER and thats why a PBOC state run gold company chairman just pushed for a gold backed renimbi.

The clues are there but so many are looking up their intestines instead. I guess everbodies too busy googling up porn on their new IPhone 6 to actually educate themselves.

 

The biggest investment firms like Goldman, JP Morgan and others aquire constantly for the company vaults and are currently camped out at the Shanghai Gold Exchange.

It is difficult to imagine Goldman, JPM and others "camping out at the Shanghai Gold Exchange" when there are so many Good Delivery Points distributed around the world where the major exchanges arrange continuous physical delivery.

 

I keep hearing people say buy gold as a hedge, but it sure doesn't trade like one.

 

Due to fraud.
Specifically:
All the "Paper Gold" out there.

I am not, nor would I advise buying gold now.
Now silver....

 

The S will (God Willing) never HTF in my life. With that said, I bought Gold dirt cheap and I am sitting on it. I could of sold a year or two ago for major profits, or do so even now but I wont.

Those that have, have and those that don't, have regrets. It's that simple and time proven.

I could have bought an sks in 2002 for $79.00 from Aim Surplus. 89 for the pick of the best 10. I didn't and now they sell for over $400.00 and are commonly asked on arms trader for OVER $500.00.

I don't care, nor keep up with the current costs of Gold. Why? Because in the 80's and 90s a south African Krugerrand was dirt cheap. It might be 30 years from now, but the value of Gold will still go up.

God didn't pave the streets of heaven with bit coins nor American dollars.

Those that can afford to invest should, as long as they aren't buying "gold stocks" or "Gold 401k retirement funds". Gold you physically hold, you physically own, the rest is a scam.

 

I'm with Nomad on this one.

I think money is a claim on energy. I understand where you're coming from, AC, I think we just disagree. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but perhaps when I talk about "energy" You're thinking of things like electricity, natural gas, oil, nuclear power, and the like. When I'm talking about energy, I'm talking about the strict physics sense of the word. And money is a claim on it.

When you're holding money, you're holding the option to claim some product that is an amalgam of human labor, human intelligence, and/or resources. When you pay for a capuccino at Starbucks, you're paying for the beans to be grown, harvested, processed, shipped, and made into your coffee. Same thing with the paper cup that holds your coffee.

A good argument against my theory would be arguing that things like intellectual content don't require energy input, but if you were to make that argument, I would claim that the human body burns through roughly 100 calories an hour. Therefore time is energy as well, and paying money for art is, ultimately, a claim on the amount of energy that went into buying that art. You might say "Well, if money represents energy, then why doesn't the market price of every product in the world reflect the energy input that was used to create it?" Great question with a simple answer: Nobody pays the REAL price for things today. Today things are subsidized, manipulated, and confuddled by globalization and currency manipulation to the point that nobody is actually paying the REAL price for hardly any products they buy.

You said in an earlier post that money can never go away because it represents the wealth of a society. I think you're correct in the sense that human beings use wealth to distinguish themselves from one another, and that isn't going to change. I think you're wrong that money is the only form of wealth. For example, let's say that we DO have unlimited energy from fusion. The question becomes, what can fusion NOT give us? Well, fusion can basically give us the power to automate ALL facets of society using robots. Well, if everyone has access to robot produced products, what can robots not give us? Robots can't (currently) give us love, understanding, and other complex human emotions. And they can't create art that they weren't programmed to creat.

So, envision, if you will, a society where nobody has to work. All our needs for protection, water, shelter, and food are freely met and every material want can be effortlessly granted ad nauseum for every person on the planet. What, then, becomes valued? Art becomes valued. In all its forms. So, perhaps wealth will then be determined by who can create the best art, or who owns the best art. In such a way you can have wealth without money, imo.

 

I'm with Nomad on this one.

I think money is a claim on energy. I understand where you're coming from, AC, I think we just disagree. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but perhaps when I talk about "energy" You're thinking of things like electricity, natural gas, oil, nuclear power, and the like. When I'm talking about energy, I'm talking about the strict physics sense of the word. And money is a claim on it.

When you're holding money, you're holding the option to claim some product that is an amalgam of human labor, human intelligence, and/or resources. When you pay for a capuccino at Starbucks, you're paying for the beans to be grown, harvested, processed, shipped, and made into your coffee. Same thing with the paper cup that holds your coffee.

I agree with this partly, but while all goods and services are ultimately a product of human labor, they are also a product of raw materials as well, and these go into the pricing of a product.

A good argument against my theory would be arguing that things like intellectual content don't require energy input, but if you were to make that argument, I would claim that the human body burns through roughly 100 calories an hour.

Oh yes, I agree fully that intellectual content requires energy. All goods and services require energy. My argument is that money however cannot represent only energy because it also represents other inputs as well.

You said in an earlier post that money can never go away because it represents the wealth of a society. I think you're correct in the sense that human beings use wealth to distinguish themselves from one another, and that isn't going to change. I think you're wrong that money is the only form of wealth. For example, let's say that we DO have unlimited energy from fusion. The question becomes, what can fusion NOT give us? Well, fusion can basically give us the power to automate ALL facets of society using robots. Well, if everyone has access to robot produced products, what can robots not give us? Robots can't (currently) give us love, understanding, and other complex human emotions. And they can't create art that they weren't programmed to creat.

I think you are confusing a part of my argument---I never said that money is the only form of wealth. Money is the means of exchange for the wealth created in society. Also, I didn't say that this is why money can never go away; rather, money can never go away as long as there are scarce resources and thus humans have to engage in trade. As long as trade exists, there will always be money.

Also, modern computer programs can create on their own without human input. Look up programs that compose music by themselves for example.

So, envision, if you will, a society where nobody has to work. All our needs for protection, water, shelter, and food are freely met and every material want can be effortlessly granted ad nauseum for every person on the planet. What, then, becomes valued? Art becomes valued. In all its forms. So, perhaps wealth will then be determined by who can create the best art, or who owns the best art. In such a way you can have wealth without money, imo.

That won't happen though due to the existence of scarce resources. Every material want can't be granted if there aren't enough raw materials, no matter how automated things get.

 

I remember such talk in the early 80s. Then again in the 90s and again in the early 2000s. Have faith. The government will bring the price back. Not purposely though.

 

Im sure all precious metals will be that way soon.

 

I worked with gold miners for decades. The metal never tarnishes and has fascinated people for many centuries. There is also no doubt that the gold industry is full of hype and many people believe all of it. There is not enough gold available for most countries to use a gold standard. The market is confused by speculation and things like jewelry demand in India and China where dowries are still common. Gold has many intrinsically great qualities that are overshadowed by speculation and hype.

 

There is not enough gold available for most countries to use a gold standard.

At current valuation. The concept of "not enough gold" is illogical. "Gold standard" does not mean gold coins jingling in people's pockets.

 

We're buying a lot.

 

Unless youse guys are running for Congress (or Treasury Secretary) on those plans to balance the budget and erase the deficit and debt...

we're going to keep buying PMs. There are just no better options, if you're not young enough to buy a farm and get started working it.

Dow's down 260 some points today. If it continues doing this all week, or doubles that amount of drop... I'm going to be glad I have stacked what I've been able to, so far.

 

Dow shows a week or two of long overdue corrections after a record run and it's the harbinger of doom, end of the world. (AGAIN)

In the same time frame the metals have dropped 50% and no comment at all.

If you are "glad" you have "stacked" what you did over a 260 point decline you must have been devastated on the run up to 17,000, no?

I love the hypocrisy. Impressed by it, actually.

There's far better options than buying PMs. No matter what your take on the future is.

 

That particular "conversational" or debate technique, completely misses the point. We were stacking before the run up to Dow 17,000. What we "made" between 14,000-17,000 is all funny money, none of it real until ya sell your stock, and then the purchasing power of each 1$ is a lot less than when we started.

Hypocrisy? What? Where?! Just because I don't play the game the way you do? Maybe you need to re-examine your motives in trying to tear down people who might be able to teach you a thing or three.

Sonny boy.

 

I've forgotten more than you'll ever know about markets and trading, sister.

You're the one posting about a one day 260 point decline in the Dow as it was some harbinger of doom.

Where were your like minded posts about PMs as they cratered 50% in value?

Like I said, hypocrisy.

 

I buy gold as a form of currency that I can spend in any country....guaranteed. And I am talking authenticated, certified gold, (that countries pay their debts to other countries with).

 

I buy gold as a form of currency that I can spend in any country....guaranteed.

Gold is not a currency, you can't spend it but you can sell it.

 

You're the one posting about a one day 260 point decline in the Dow as it was some harbinger of doom.

Hahahahahahahahahaha! No; I didn't. You READ THAT INTO what I wrote, simply to troll here. Silly a$$.

Ciao.

 

Sure you did. Hence you now resorting to internettin'.

Don't agree? Get called out on something? Troll

Grow up a little.

 

Gold is an ok commodity, but I have it on good word that ham is "going through the roof" in a couple of months. So, I've bought a warehouse full of ham, and in two months I'll unload it for a fortune!

 

Marketwatch is a CBS entity, so essentially this is government media. You wont get accurate information from it any more thsn you woukd have from Pravda about the Soviet economy back in the day.

Even if you set whatever they say about gold aside, the article is blatantly absured about the employment data.

 

MarketWatch is part of Dow Jones' Consumer Media Group

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MarketWatch

MarketWatch gives me accurate information everyday....