All the gold in the world won't help a guy if he doesn't have access to food, water, shelter.

 

I know of no one who says "I will pile up gold, so I will have no need to prepare for food, water, and shelter" rather they (we) are inclusive vs exclusive as prep ALL the above.

 

Gold was money.

 

I suspect it will be again, most likely very violently.

Timing is elusive though.

 

I don't think there is enough gold in the world to use as currency. I am fine with paper if it's backed. And with all the fake gold, I would run out of testing acid. For me, going to the store and getting a candy bar reminds me that every day it is worth less.

But the food and water part, that is where I would rely on having a bit of gold just in case. If anyone has extra of anything, they are going to want something for it, and most people will have nothing. You can only carry and store so much food, but there is always going to be space for some gold, just in case. If you are stuck and need to get a ride somewhere, anywhere in the world, some gold would work.

 

It wasn't government that led to the move away from the use of gold as money but economic growth. That growth necessitated larger amounts of gold to be extracted and moved around, and it was too impractical and even dangerous to do so. That's why merchants decided to store them in banks and use bank notes instead. This has been going on for hundreds of years.

Since banks were never scrutinized (as merchants did not want anyone else to know how much gold they had) and more gold was needed to finance businesses (which meant banks could lend the gold stored in banks using bank notes, and thus issue more bank notes than there was gold), then it became a matter of time before bank notes were no longer backed by gold.

Today, the value of gold remains essentially--money, which is essentially a promissory note whose worth is dependent on what surplus goods are available. Apart from jewelry, dental filling, and certain chemical and equipment applications, it has little practical value.

 

It wasn't government that led to the move away from the use of gold as money but economic growth ....
Since banks were never scrutinized (as merchants did not want anyone else to know how much gold they had) and more gold was needed to finance businesses (which meant banks could lend the gold stored in banks using bank notes, and thus issue more bank notes than there was gold), then it became a matter of time before bank notes were no longer backed by gold.

Ralfy. Ralfy. Ralfy. You are persistent in spreading the fiat currency propaganda.

What you write about is plain corruption, having nothing to do with inherent necessity to move away from a medium of exchange that also is a store of value.

In short, fiat currency is a form of governmental theft, a form of taxation. This is because it is inherently inflationary, robbing the buying power of yesterday's labor.

Bank Notes are not money, not even those "backed by" gold or silver. Gold or silver is money. Bank notes, or receipts, simply facilitated trade. FRN (Federal Reserve Notes) require the force of government to make people accept them in lieu of money.

Like Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Standard Oil, if FRN were good for the people, you would not have to use governmental force to make people use it. :upsidedown:

 

I understand the lessons from history, but something has to be said for these new conditions never present in history.

For example, we live in a world now where paper money dominates.. A world where the strength of that paper money is not determined by its value or store of gold, but by the strength of the government who's issuing the paper.

What happens when inflationary fiat finally decays and goes bust?

Will it be a race to old world values and its metal money?.. Not in this technetronic era.

As much as I loathe it, digital currency and blockchain tech has been developed and conditioned to be the perfect solution for when giant slates of worldwide debt is forced to be wiped to rescue from apocalyptic fallout.

All that needs to happen is for governments to adopt the idea and create the system, which they will, cleaving the gold and silver sentiment and permanently dismissing it to industry.

Hope I'm wrong!

 

you are



When the next war comes, the power grid will be down for several years....maybe forever. The blockchain won't do you any good...your funds will be somewhere in cyberspace also probably gone for good. That's w/o even having the discussion if a blockchain currency will ever become widely accepted. As transactions grow, the baggage to process the chain becomes prohibitive... Metals have been money since the beginning of time and they will be again. They are in far more widespread use then bankers and gov'ts would have you believe. I personally think that is the main sticking point behind Brexit...Europe wants its gold back from the Bank of England but they have been a party to the lease/hypothication schemes being played and know the gold is gone. The game is just getting interesting

 

Money is what the seller will accept.

 

What dominates is not even paper money but numbers in hard drives. Only a fraction of money consists of paper bills and coins because even these are impractical for large transactions. (Try buying, say, a building using paper money.)

Governments merely act as guarantors when it comes to fiat currency. The actual strength of money lies in the ability of private corporations to extract resources and use energy to create goods and services. The surplus of these goods and services determine the value of money, whether numbers in hard drives, paper, or even gold.

Thus, money, whether digital, paper, or metal, is not a store of value but a promissory note backed by goods and services available. What will make it worthless (including gold) is a decline in resources and energy available, and what will cause that will involve a combination of a resource crunch and environmental damage, something that no amount of money can reverse.

 

In about half the world's population--notably Asia--gold is treated as money, if that's what's offered in trade. Note also that the center of gravity of the world's wealth is moving eastward, toward the Gulf States and Asia.

Jim Rickards has played with the numbers. If gold were $10,000/ounce, China could back its currency 40% with gold. So could a few other countries. If such occurred, the US $ would be toast.

 

Much of currency in Asia does not involve the use of gold but similar to that of OECD countries: paper bills, coins, financial instruments.

The world's wealth, which essentially consists of numbers in hard drives, started moving to the Gulf States not because of the use of gold but because of oil and the formation of OPEC. It started moving to Asia not because of the use of gold but because of the rise of export-oriented, protectionist economies (e.g., Japan, the Asian tigers, later China and Vietnam). Most of them fall under the rubric of BRICS, Next Eleven, etc., generally over forty emerging markets with lots of young people eager to do business and join the global middle class.

The effects of peak oil plus increased engagement in the use of their own currencies plus SDRs is what's threatening the petrodollar.

 

Anybody Remember When …

I'm not old enough to remember when gold was in use as money, but I was an adult when the government's policies on spending forced the loss of intrinsic-value coinage as money. Note that since then, the cost of living has risen beyond all reason and the quality of life--as to affordability--has notably declined.

If the government is all that rational, competent and caring about consumer price inflation over time, then where in (bleep) is my cuppa kawfee for a nickel?

Anybody remember first class postage at four cents? A penny box of matches?

… the postman came twice a day?

The Little Golden Book “Lassie and Her Day in the Sun” has a postman making a morning delivery seeing Lassie asleep by the box. Lassie has a characteristic full day of activities. However, the postman makes his second mail delivery and sees the dog “still sleeping“ at the mailbox. To the postman, Lassie has had a lazy day in the sun … :

 

… the postman came twice a day?

The Little Golden Book “Lassie and Her Day in the Sun” has a postman making a morning delivery seeing Lassie asleep by the box. Lassie has a characteristic full day of activities. However, the postman makes his second mail delivery and sees the dog “still sleeping“ at the mailbox. To the postman, Lassie has had a lazy day in the sun … :

The postman always rings twice. :

The Royal Post of Britain delivered twice a day. Maybe Lassie was a British production.

Before the boating accident, I had some minted silver CURRENCY that wouldn't be collected or hoarded today if they had not started cladding them in 1965.

 

Or the milkman, delivering to the door in glass containers. Or party lines. Payphones. B/W TV.

 

We have gone back to tv antennas so you just never know huh?

 

There has never been enough gold and silver for the common man to have money. Aristotle understood this, which is why he preferred to define money as stated in the OP.

Aristotle wrote that some while they are if fact human some are “of someone else”. Aristotle thought of the common man as natural slaves by their existence and characteristics. The common man is a natural slave of society by their interactions of their masters. The common man is a natural slave by their main features of pieces of property, tools for actions, and belonging to others.

Aristotle wrote: “those who are as different [from other men] as the soul from the body or man from beast—and they are in this state if their work is the use of the body, and if this is the best that can come from them—are slaves by nature. For them it is better to be ruled in accordance with this sort of rule, if such is the case for the other things mentioned.”

Money is anything generally accepted as a mode of exchange for goods and services. Gold and silver are commodities. They have been used as money and have failed every time.

 

The Coinage Act of 1792 passed on 2 April and the follow act of 8 May of that same year were two of many attempts by Congress’ to meet the Constitutional responsibility “to coin money, regulate the value thereof and of foreign coin…” Understanding it makes it easy to understand the fallacy promoted by Ron Paul that gold is money. It also makes it clear why the founding fathers did not intend that the word “coin” meant that of gold or silver.

The May 8th act provided for the copper cent proof the founding fathers knew something other than gold and silver is money. The fact these acts passed and have been updated and replaced as necessary proves the US Constitution left open the possibility for other commodities to be used as money this includes paper.

The act defines proportional value. Fifteen (15) units of pure silver were deemed equal to one (1) unit of pure gold. Standard gold was deemed 11 parts of pure gold and 1 part of a silver-copper alloy. Standard silver was defined as 1485 parts pure silver and 179 parts cooper alloy. The silver content of a dollar was to be equal to one-fifth of the silver in a British pound and four (4) British shillings of the day.

Accounting (money of account) was to be in terms of dollars, “dismes” (tenth of dollars), cents (100th of dollars) and milles (1,000th of a dollar). This is why property taxes are expressed in millage today.

A person was to be able to bring his gold or silver to be minted into coins “free of expense.” This was a way of increasing the money supply without the government actually buying gold and silver bullion.

The consequence of the 1792 acts was that many US coins were taken overseas for melting. This resulted in the 1834 act that adjusted their weight and sizes, which had to be done again in 1853.

Money is a commodity that is generally accepted as a medium for exchanging goods and services. If it stops being generally accepted it is no longer money regardless of what it is made of. If money or former money is made of something with intrinsic value it will maintain whatever intrinsic value that particular commodity is valued at given a point in time.

This is why the US Silver Eagles today have a spot price $14 but a legal tender value of $1. This legal tender vs. intrinsic value was even true of the Coin Acts of 1792. The coins authorized by those acts did not have the same proportional intrinsic value in terms of the legal tender they were minted. So the only difference between a paper US Dollar and a Silver Dollar is in its intrinsic value. We all know that. This makes a paper US dollar no less Constitutional than the relationship of a $10 gold piece to 10 silver dollars to 1000 copper pennies. All of these legal tender values were set by fiat in 1792. Their intrinsic value varied then as they do now. If the Founding Fathers could/did set the intrinsic value of 1,000 pennies made of 17.1 grams ea. of copper equal to 10 dollars of 27 grams ea. of silver equal to one $10 coin of 17.5 grams of gold in 1792.

Making paper money legal tender today is not un-Constitutional.

Congress has the authority to, "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;" I see nothing there prohibiting issuing paper money as a representation of coined money. You can take your paper money and exchange it for coins.

Is it unconstitutional for the Federal government to write a check if it owes you money? The US Constitution means what it says. I think Roger Sherman tried to get inserted into the Constitution that paper money could not be issued and failed. Yet he signed it anyway. So he must have given in contrary to his preferences.

The US Constitution means what it says. It does not mean what this man and that man and another man said he intended it to say or mean. Using the words of the US Constitution and Acts passed in accordance with the US Constitution prove paper money is Constitutional.

 

I know people with exterior TV attennas. I use an interior one -- if that is hard to understand, I don't use cable. I get enough over-the-air stations.

 

As the world is, today, I'm in accord with Palmetto Tree in treating gold/silver as commodities.

Post SHTF: Regardless of the how and why, at some point people will progress beyond barter and seek some medium of exchange. In such a situation, I pretty much take it for granted that it would be intrinsic-value coinage.

Ancient saying, from ancient Rome to well into the 19th Century: "Gold for the wealthy, silver for the working man, copper for the poor." Why would that change?

 

Lol. But nobody cares about metals anymore. Can’t even give it away anymore.

 

I would not go that far and I am the biggest naysayer here about gold being money.

It is true because the the Paul con that most people are down on PMs. That does not mean no one cares about them.

The shame of it is that prices have been flat and seem to resist going below $14/oz. Which says to me most of us should be buyers but complacency due the the Paul-con has tainted our judgement.

 

If the premise is that Gold is Money, I'd have to disagree with that until the time comes when I can use gold to buy a car, a cup of coffee, or a loaf of bread. Until then, gold is a commodity and its value is determined by the Commodities Exchange.

The biggest problem with precious metals is that the gold and silver hucksters used fear tactics to artificially inflate the prices and enrich themselves. When the price adjusted to where it should be, most investors who believed the hucksters got burned.

 

If the premise is that Gold is Money, I'd have to disagree with that until the time comes when I can use gold to buy a car, a cup of coffee, or a loaf of bread. Until then, gold is a commodity and its value is determined by the Commodities Exchange.

d.

Time is here.

Come get them.

 

I built (contracted mostly) our new rural home not long ago, all funded by the sale of gold. Gold = Money

 

No according to your post you sold the commodity gold for money to finance your new home. Gold was the investment you sold to get the actual money for your home. Even if you would/could have found individual sub-contractors to take gold in exchange for their work done on your home it still would not be money as gold is not generally accepted as a mode of exchange for goods and services.

Fishermen sell fish to get money for their homes. That does not make fish money.

Using your logic Gold = Fish

 

I'll be back to this thread soon enough to slap some folks back to reality. :

 

In much of the world, gold and silver coins are usable as mediums of exchange, without using some middleman.

Per GATA and others, the $$$ pricing of silver and gold (and platinum and palladium) are controlled by (mostly) J.P. Morgan's short sales.

Just because most people in this country are not knowledgeable about PMs does not prove that they are useless. Me, I figure that I've learned at least a little bit during my half-century of meddling around in the bullion business.

To repeat, though, note that I separate today's world from a post-SHTF situation.

 

Per GATA and others, the $$$ pricing of silver and gold (and platinum and palladium) are controlled by (mostly) J.P. Morgan's short sales.

This is a reoccurring urban myth.

The metals markets are much too big to be "Controlled" by a single entity. A better choice of words would be "Affected", but certainly not controlled. And the word "Affected" could be applied to other markets too, not just commodities but equities and currencies.

 

One of your links list SC to back up your statement. It is a lie. Here is the SC law on handling gold and silver:

Title 40 - Professions and Occupations

CHAPTER 54

Dealers in Precious Metals

SECTION 40-54-10. Definitions.

As used in this chapter:

(1) "Dealer" means any person, corporation, or partnership who buys precious metal or precious or semiprecious stones or gems from the general public, whether in bulk or in manufactured form, with an intent to obtain a monetary profit for himself or for a principal.

(2) "Precious metal" means any article made in whole or in part of gold, silver, or platinum.

(3) "Precious or semiprecious stone or gem" means any stone or gem that is rare or costly or any stone or gem that is of lower value than those classified as precious.

(4) "Local law enforcement agency" means the chief of police for businesses located within the corporate limits of a municipality and the county law enforcement agency for businesses located outside the corporate limits of a municipality.

(5) "Permanent place of business" means a fixed premises either owned by the dealer or leased by him. One year's lease is a presumption of permanency.

(6) "Places proposed to do business" means the counties or municipalities in which the dealer intends to purchase precious metals or precious or semiprecious stones or gems or both precious metals and precious or semiprecious stones or gems.

(7) "Purchase" means the acquisition, including by means of being pawned to a dealer, of precious metal or precious or semiprecious stones or gems or both precious metal and precious or semiprecious stones or gems for a consideration of cash, goods, or other precious metals or precious or semiprecious stones or gems or both precious metals and precious or semiprecious stones or gems. Trade-ins are covered by the provisions of this chapter unless the item traded was purchased directly from the dealer allowing the trade.

HISTORY: 1981 Act No. 147 Section 1; 1988 Act No. 413, Section 1; 2014 Act No. 292 (H.3149), Section 1, eff June 23, 2014.

Effect of Amendment

2014 Act No. 292, Section 1, in paragraph (7), inserted ", including by means of being pawned to a dealer,".

SECTION 40-54-20. Permit required; form; contents of application; investigation; issuance; term; fee; denial, suspension, or revocation.

(A) No dealer as defined herein shall operate in the State of South Carolina unless he first obtains a permit to engage in the business of purchasing precious metals from the local law enforcement agency and operates only from a permanent place of business. No dealer shall operate upon public property nor from a vehicle, flea market, hotel room, residential dwelling, similar temporary location, or subleased space with a lease term of less than one year.

(B) The form of the permit to engage in the business of purchasing precious metals shall be prescribed by the State Law Enforcement Division and all applicants for a permit under this chapter, whether a person, firm or corporation, shall file a written sworn application signed by the applicant if an individual, by all the partners if a partnership, and by the president if a corporation, with the local law enforcement agency showing:

(1) The names of the persons managing, supervising or conducting the applicant's business in any places proposed to carry on business; the addresses of such persons; the driver's license number of such persons; the capacity in which such persons will act, that is, whether as proprietor, agent or otherwise; the name and address of the person, firm or corporation for whose account the business will be carried on, if any; and if a corporation, the state of incorporation.

(2) The permanent places of business and other places in the State of South Carolina where it is proposed to carry on the applicant's business and the places where the applicant has carried on the business of purchasing precious metals within one year preceding the date of such application.

(3) Such other reasonable information as to the identity of the persons managing, supervising or conducting the applicant's business as the local law enforcement agency may deem proper to fulfill the purposes of this chapter.

(4) A statement of the nature, character and quality of the precious metals to be purchased in the business.

(C) Upon receipt of such application for a permit, the local law enforcement agency shall cause an investigation of such person's business and personal background to be made. Such investigation shall be limited to information pertinent to the purpose of this chapter. If, as a result of the investigation, the background is found to be unsatisfactory, the permit shall be denied. The permit shall be denied or issued within thirty days from the date of application. Upon the issuance of the permit, the local law enforcement agency shall notify the State Law Enforcement Division of the locations where the permit holder proposes to carry on his business. The permit issued under this chapter shall be valid for a period of one year from the date issued and the annual fee shall be fifty dollars to provide for the administrative costs. If the dealer intends to operate from more than one location within the State, then separate permits shall be issued for each place of business; provided, however, only one annual fee shall be collected.

(D) The permits under this chapter shall be in addition to and not in lieu of other business licenses.

(E) A permit may be denied, suspended or revoked at any time if the local law enforcement agency discovers that the information on the application is inaccurate or the dealer or applicant does not comply with the requirements of this act. The permit holder shall notify, within ten days, the local law enforcement agency if any substantive changes occur in the permanent place of business in the persons managing, supervising or conducting the applicant's business, or in the places the permit holder intends to do business.

HISTORY: 1981 Act No. 147 Section 1; 2014 Act No. 292 (H.3149), Section 2, eff June 23, 2014.

Effect of Amendment

2014 Act No. 292, Section 2, added subsection designators (A), (B), (C), (D), and (E); redesignated former paragraphs (a) through (d) as subsections (B)(1) through (B)(4); and in subsection (A), substituted "residential dwelling, similar temporary location, or subleased space with a lease term of less than one year" for "or similar temporary location".

SECTION 40-54-30. Permit to be posted.

A permit issued under this chapter shall be posted conspicuously at all places of business named therein.

HISTORY: 1981 Act No. 147 Section 1.

SECTION 40-54-40. Dealer to keep records of certain purchases; identification of seller required; seller's identity not to be publicized.

(A)(1) Every dealer shall keep a book in which must be written at the time of any purchase of precious metal or precious or semiprecious stones or gems made from the general public, whether in bulk or manufactured form, the date of purchase, amount of money or other property exchanged for the metal, stones, or gems, the name, sex, race, age, address, and driver's license number of the person selling the items, articles, or things bought, and the number and nature and brand name of the items, articles, or things. Descriptions must include size, weight, patterns, or engraving or any unusual identification marks.

(2) If the seller does not have a driver's license, some other positive identification bearing his photograph and an identifying number may be substituted including:

(a) another form of identification containing a photograph and issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles;

(b) a passport;

(c) military identification containing a photograph and issued by the United States federal government; or

(d) a South Carolina voter registration card containing a photograph pursuant to Section 7-5-675.

(3) If the seller cannot produce a driver's license or other positive identification, the dealer may not buy any merchandise from him. Every dealer shall, at the time of purchase, obtain the signature of the seller as part of the recording of the transaction.

(B) The record book must be kept for three years and at all reasonable times must be open to the inspection of any judicial or law enforcement officials or their designees.

(C) The local law enforcement agency may not reveal a seller's identity supplied under this section except to other law enforcement agencies and prosecuting officials or pursuant to the valid order of a court or in the course of any criminal investigation or prosecution.

HISTORY: 1981 Act No. 147 Section 1; 1988 Act No. 413, Section 2; 2014 Act No. 292 (H.3149), Section 3, eff June 23, 2014.

Effect of Amendment

2014 Act No. 292, Section 3, added the subsection designators; in subsection (A)(1), deleted the prior last three sentences; and added subsections (A)(2) through (A)(3).

SECTION 40-54-50. Purchases from minors; retention period of precious metals purchased; goods subject to inspection.

(A) No dealer may purchase any precious metal from a minor unless accompanied by his parent or guardian with appropriate identification.

(B) All precious metals, except coins, purchased by a dealer must be held by the dealer at his permanent place of business or within the county of purchase in this State without being resold, melted, or altered in any manner, for a period of twenty-one days from the purchase date. All goods required to be held under this section must at all reasonable times be open to inspection by any law enforcement agency.

HISTORY: 1981 Act No. 147 Section 1; 2014 Act No. 292 (H.3149), Section 4, eff June 23, 2014.

Effect of Amendment

2014 Act No. 292, Section 4, in subsection (B), inserted ", except coins,"; substituted "within the county of purchase in this State" for "at another suitable location in the State of South Carolina"; inserted a comma after "melted"; substituted "twenty-one days" for "seven days"; and made other nonsubstantive changes.

SECTION 40-54-60. Permit required for possession of certain equipment.

Possession of equipment which has been used, or is being used for the melting, crushing or altering of the precious metals is unlawful unless possessed by a dealer with a valid permit as provided in Section 40-54-20.

HISTORY: 1981 Act No. 147, Section 1.

SECTION 40-54-70. Civil liability of dealer to owner for knowingly purchasing stolen metal; reimbursement to dealer by owner under certain conditions.

Any dealer buying precious metal with knowledge that the metal has been stolen shall be liable to the lawful owner of such metal in an amount triple the fair market value of the stolen items, computed at the time of the theft, and shall be liable for a reasonable attorney's fee as the court in its discretion may award. This shall be a civil remedy and in addition to any other remedies provided by the law. Provided, any dealer, having purchased precious metal in compliance with the provisions of this chapter, such metal subsequently being shown to have been stolen by a member of the immediate family of the rightful owner, may demand reimbursement from the owner equal to the amount paid for the metal before returning the metal to the owner.

HISTORY: 1981 Act No. 147, Section 1.

SECTION 40-54-80. Penalties.

(A) Any dealer wilfully violating the provisions of this chapter is guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction for a first offense must be fined not more than five hundred dollars, imprisoned for not more than ninety days, or both. A second offense conviction is punishable by a fine of not more than two thousand dollars, imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. A third or subsequent offense conviction is punishable by a fine of not more than five thousand dollars, imprisonment for not more than three years, or both. A dealer convicted of a second offense is ineligible for a permit to conduct business in precious metals in this State for at least two years and a dealer convicted of a third or subsequent offense is ineligible for a permit for a least five years.

(B)(1) In addition to the provisions of subsection (A), any dealer who wilfully makes a purchase with an invalid, suspended, or revoked license as a dealer of precious metals is guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction for a:

(a) first offense must be fined not more than five hundred dollars, imprisoned for not more than ninety days, or both;

(b) second offense must be fined not more than two thousand dollars, imprisoned for not more than one year, or both; and

(c) third offense must be fined not more than five thousand dollars, imprisoned for not more than three years, or both.

(2)(a) A dealer convicted of a second offense is ineligible for a permit to conduct business in precious metals in this State for at least two years; and

(b) a dealer convicted of a third offense is ineligible for a permit to conduct business in precious metals in this State for at least five years.

(3) A penalty under this section is cumulative to penalties in items (1) and (2).

HISTORY: 1981 Act No. 147 Section 1; 2014 Act No. 292 (H.3149), Section 5, eff June 23, 2014.

Effect of Amendment

2014 Act No. 292, Section 5, added subsection designator (A), rewrote subsection (A), and added subsection (B).

SECTION 40-54-90. Chapter preempts local ordinances regulating business of purchasing precious metals.

The provisions of this chapter shall regulate the business of purchasing precious metals in this State and shall preempt any ordinances passed by political subdivisions purporting to regulate such business.

HISTORY: 1981 Act No. 147 Section 1.

SECTION 40-54-100. Exempt transactions.

This chapter shall not apply to the following specific transactions:

(1) a transaction between dealers of precious metals where the selling dealer has already complied with the applicable holding period, nor shall they apply to transactions between coin dealers and coin collectors occurring at regularly scheduled numismatic conventions. However, this exemption only applies to transactions between coin dealers and coin collectors occurring at regularly scheduled numismatic conventions for the purchase of coins;

(2) the purchase of manufactured items bought directly from the manufacturer or his authorized representatives;

(3) the purchase of bulk precious metals brought directly from the commodity exchanges, banks, dealers or licensed brokers; and

(4) the use of a coin strictly as legal tender.

HISTORY: 1981 Act No. 147 Section 1; 2014 Act No. 292 (H.3149), Section 6, eff June 23, 2014.

Effect of Amendment

2014 Act No. 292, Section 6, in paragraph (1), substituted "applicable holding period" for "seven day holding period", and added the second sentence; added paragraph (4); and made other nonsubstantive changes.

 

PT is correct.... until he's not.

Buy gold and silver because history has shown us that it always becomes money, again, and again, and again.

 

I collect collect silver and never sell gold even scrap. I an no fortune teller. Gold and silver have been used as money they are not money. There is a profound difference.

The history of US coins has proved that. So long as the intrinsic value of gold and silver is lower than the fiat value of gold and silver as money it can be used as money. Once the intrinsic value exceeds the fiat value of gold and silver money it disappears as money.

90% US silver coins might become money again mostly because they will be recognizable with a particular weight of silver content. All other silver will be discounted. Other coins in gold may or may not catch on. I have my doubts.

The overriding point is: Gold is NOT (neither is silver) in and of itself money. It never has been and never will be. The fact they have been and might again be used as money is proof of nothing.

 

Saying gold is money is like pointing to a forest and saying there is a corn field.

The land could be made into a corn field but that does not make it a corn field.

Gold can be made into money but it is not money.

Fish has been used as money but that does not make fish money.

 

Gold can be made into money but it is not money.

Fish has been used as money but that does not make fish money.

You are right from a certain POV. FRN has been used as money but that does not make FRN money. To understand the object lesson, I quote my friend Ian.

A quick education in economics: If a set quantity of precious metal goes from $1 to $2, has the metal increased in value, or has the dollar decreased in value?

FRN are legal tender. Therefore, they meet one quality of money - a medium of exchange.

However, FRN fail dramatically - and deliberately - in the other quality of money, which is a store of value. It is my understanding that since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, the Fed has deliberately inflated the money supply by 2-3% ahead of economic growth. A century later, FRN has lost 97% of it value given the fact that $35 FRN used to buy 1 ounce of gold and now ~$1,200 FRN are needed.

Perhaps we ought to look at the question of the OP from the opposite perspective. What are among the best commodities that act as a store of value, i.e., form of money? FRN are among the worst and gold is among the best.

 

I'll happily settle for "money = medium of exchange" (for goods and services) without particular concern for what is used. Paper, sea shells, gold, silver, cartridges.

I was born in 1934.

Consumer price inflation was nearly constantly very, very low through the 19th Century and through WW 1. Gold standard era. Then came the effects of the new policies of the Federal Reserve Bank.

Post WW II, prices were up but still tolerable. We had penny post cards and four-cent postage for first class. A cuppa joe for a nickel. I remember the stencil on the dash of a new 1957 Army staff car: "Take care of me. I cost $1,538."

Unfortunately, here came Lyndon. Great Society and Vietnam. Mucho increase in government do-good spending, plus his guns'n'butter policy. Ergo, decay in the buying power of the dollar.

After we lost 12,000 tonnes of gold in repatriating dollars, Nixon said, "No mas." After 1971 that took all restraint off Congressional spending. So, since then, unending increases in the national debt and an unending decline in the buying power of the middle class.

So why do I think that the Gold Standard was a good thing? Simple: A government could not borrow money (sell bonds) or print paper money beyond what it had in its gold reserves. That's why FDR devalued the dollar from $20.62 per ounce to $35 per ounce. Print more paper; sell more bonds.

But that's all pre-SHTF and so is irrelevant.

Some folks think that there would be a shortage of coins. Search for the how-to of revolutionary coins of the 1910 Mexican Revolution. They hinged railroad rails to make a press. Silver blanks are easily made from looted tableware, e.g. Dies can be engraved. Many dollar-sized coins were produced by that method. How can you tell if it's a revolutionary coin? Easy: By the slight taper across the width of the coin.

 

If you just walked up to a ramdom stranger with a camera in their face and proposed a gold trade to someone who has no knowledge of gold doesn't show anything. I know several business owners who I could make a deal with. There has to be some kind of trust. But if I went to a big box store, nobody would know the value or risk taking it.

 

This has been done many times... And the intrinsic value is....

 

Where is the best place to sell gold? I have some bullion coins I wouldn't mind selling.

 

My advice is to get some quotes to buy your gold. Then find what it would cost to replace them. You should be able to search out a buyer halfway between the two amounts.